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Phenomenum

We need a proper abilities descriptions (cry of my heart)

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This is my longest post ever, but i can't just hold it in myself :grin:

 

Imagine, i'm a newbee or just want to play uncharted class, and i want to choose abilities for my characher. And i will see this:

 

dvHl1hL.jpg

 

 

Yeah, in first case the choise is obvious (as it seems), but abilities scales with Power Level. Ok, i will dig up to cyclopedy but all i can learn from it is:

"Power Level is a measure of the overall power of your character. All active spells and abilities are modified by Power Level and become more powerful as you gain levels. Some items, spells, and abilities, may also influence your Power Level (positively or negatively)." - wow, someone has written forks on the water. I mean, it says nothing about how this ability will progress.

 

Another specific example:

 

WQjYpXQ.jpg

 

Now i know: it scales from 30% to 70%

But how will do i know it, when i see all of it first time? How can i measure ability efficiency for my build? There is no options to do it. Come on, guys, on the game launch, you bosted of "how many variations of classes might be in game" (i remembered Josh face and many numbers flying around).

So, it's difficult to build charachers without knowing how exactly all abilities scales.

 

PROPOSITION: update abilities text descriptions with such information (e.g. Damage/Duration/Penetration increasing by +N% with each Power Level)

 

Second one: when we choose abilities (and this is true for abilities granting from various items), we able to see only base duration.

In Pillars of Eternity 1 we able to see reliance of charachers Attributes to duration of abilities:

 

98NWBvx.jpg

 

in Deadfire we can see only base duration:

 

pg8MFAa.jpg

 

So i must check character's screen for his Int attribute and then calculate in my mund total duration of ability to deside it efficiency?

Well, i'm not too lazy for this, but PoE 1 was never forcing to do it. Why the second one desided to keep my mind in check?))

"That's downgrade, i say"

 

PROPOSITION: Return, in effect decriptions, abilities duration scaling, according charachers Intellect attribute - like it was in PoE 1.

 

Fuf...)

Edited by Phenomenum
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Hmmm... While I mostly agree with you, because I generaly like to know details of game's mechanics, I can also see, that this may highly depend on individual approach to the game as well. ;)

 

For example, I don't know are you familiar with the Requiem mod for TES V: Skyrim? In this mod authors intentionaly do not give (at least not within the game itself) you any numbers really. And the reason is because this is all about role-playing. ;) Well, in my humble-opinion, only by changing descriptions and mechanics alone it is hard to make real RPG from Skyrim... I would say that Requiem is more like grind/farming fest (but still, only way to play Skyrim for me this days). ;P

 

Anyway, I think that in case of Deadfire, we don't really need those details also, if we play on "normal" difficulty levels. However... if we are fans (I'm not really) of so called "power-gaming" and we absolutely need to play on PotD to have sattisfactory challenge, then yes - knowing details of the mechanics would be most appreciated. ;)

 

I would appreciate it anyway, since, as I wrote, I simply like to know them. ;) My point is, that from "certain point of view" (as Obi-Wan would say) they are not really that neccessery, because on "normal" difficulty levels, one will be fine with any builds one will create - hence, one choose such talents/abilities, with best suits one's playstyle and hero (regardless of damage output, or whatever). ;)

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I've been lamenting how generic ability descriptions are since the backer beta days, so count me in on this one.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Hmmm... While I mostly agree with you, because I generaly like to know details of game's mechanics, I can also see, that this may highly depend on individual approach to the game as well. ;)

 

For example, I don't know are you familiar with the Requiem mod for TES V: Skyrim? In this mod authors intentionaly do not give (at least not within the game itself) you any numbers really. And the reason is because this is all about role-playing. ;) Well, in my humble-opinion, only by changing descriptions and mechanics alone it is hard to make real RPG from Skyrim... I would say that Requiem is more like grind/farming fest (but still, only way to play Skyrim for me this days). ;P

 

Anyway, I think that in case of Deadfire, we don't really need those details also, if we play on "normal" difficulty levels. However... if we are fans (I'm not really) of so called "power-gaming" and we absolutely need to play on PotD to have sattisfactory challenge, then yes - knowing details of the mechanics would be most appreciated. ;)

 

I would appreciate it anyway, since, as I wrote, I simply like to know them. ;) My point is, that from "certain point of view" (as Obi-Wan would say) they are not really that neccessery, because on "normal" difficulty levels, one will be fine with any builds one will create - hence, one choose such talents/abilities, with best suits one's playstyle and hero (regardless of damage output, or whatever). ;)

 

Thank you for answer! Yes i'm familiar with Requiem - it seems fine at first sight but it not solves all Skyrim problems + adds some new.

In case of Deadfire, even in Normal difficulty, i'd like to know full info of abilities. When i playin' a tabletop games, like D'n'D, Pathfinder and so on, all abilities have very presice descriptions - so why we not deserves it for PC games?

Edited by Phenomenum
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At least, why all abilities duration don't corresponding with charachers Int attribute, like it was in PoE1?

 

P.S. Another example:

ndzQMNT.jpg

 

"+N% of targets Health lost" - what does it mean? I don't get it. Why just write a "+N% Damage for every percent of target's Health lost below 50%" - this is how ability actually works???

Is this so difficult? Is this will break down roleplay IMMERSION for someone?

I don't understand this...

Edited by Phenomenum
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I don't know if this has changed, but I also would like to see the complete description when crafting items. Last time I saw you had to click again on the item's picture to see all of its effects.

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I don't know if this has changed, but I also would like to see the complete description when crafting items. Last time I saw you had to click again on the item's picture to see all of its effects.

With new UI in 2.1 patch beta it's changed - now you can see full consumable descriptions in craft menu. I like it.

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Hmmm... While I mostly agree with you, because I generaly like to know details of game's mechanics, I can also see, that this may highly depend on individual approach to the game as well. ;)

 

For example, I don't know are you familiar with the Requiem mod for TES V: Skyrim? In this mod authors intentionaly do not give (at least not within the game itself) you any numbers really. And the reason is because this is all about role-playing. ;) Well, in my humble-opinion, only by changing descriptions and mechanics alone it is hard to make real RPG from Skyrim... I would say that Requiem is more like grind/farming fest (but still, only way to play Skyrim for me this days). ;P

 

Anyway, I think that in case of Deadfire, we don't really need those details also, if we play on "normal" difficulty levels. However... if we are fans (I'm not really) of so called "power-gaming" and we absolutely need to play on PotD to have sattisfactory challenge, then yes - knowing details of the mechanics would be most appreciated. ;)

 

I would appreciate it anyway, since, as I wrote, I simply like to know them. ;) My point is, that from "certain point of view" (as Obi-Wan would say) they are not really that neccessery, because on "normal" difficulty levels, one will be fine with any builds one will create - hence, one choose such talents/abilities, with best suits one's playstyle and hero (regardless of damage output, or whatever). ;)

 

Thank you for answer! Yes i'm familiar with Requiem - it seems fine at first sight but it not solves all Skyrim problems + adds some new.

In case of Deadfire, even in Normal difficulty, i'd like to know full info of abilities. When i playin' a tabletop games, like D'n'D, Pathfinder and so on, all abilities have very presice descriptions - so why we not deserves it for PC games?

 

 

 

 

Heh. Well, as I said, I like to know the details of the mechanics anyway, so you can count me in. ;)

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I don't know if this has changed, but I also would like to see the complete description when crafting items. Last time I saw you had to click again on the item's picture to see all of its effects.

With new UI in 2.1 patch beta it's changed - now you can see full consumable descriptions in craft menu. I like it.

 

Good to know. :)

 

I imagined that they would change it.

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I have no idea. But it seems that Obsidian thinks that bad descriptions of abilities and mechanics are a must-have.

 

I can only imagine that they write lots of the stuff during development - when it's not entirely clear yet how abilities finally work. So they have to be vague. And then later there's simply no time to refine them. That - and with the constant changes to abilities due to balancing it's better to have vague discriptions because then you don't have to update them very often.

Edited by Boeroer
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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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Still remember when I've chosen some cipher level 1 power (Antipathetic Field, I think) which says the beam will affect enemies between you and your target except it will affect anyone, friend or foe. Party didn't approve. That's downright sabotage.

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Pillars of Bugothas

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Haha, same thing happened to me. I was so happy about how strong my cipher was and then he more or less killed the whole party since he was on the back row with range weapons.

 

I can't imagine how someone must feel who doesn't read the forums at all and just plays the game. There's a lot of tooltips that don't add up to the actual function. Maybe they should make a DLC only for streamlining things with no new content. At least they'd have the time then as I understand that they're on a tight budget and all. I'd buy that DLC.

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I can only imagine that they write lots of the stuff during development - when it's not entirely clear yet how abilities finally work. So they have to be vague. And then later there's simply no time to refine them. That - and with the constant changes to abilities due to balancing it's better to have vague discriptions because then you don't have to update them very often.

 

You might be on to something here. That's a really good potential explanation. Which, of course, doesn't make it an acceptable way of doing things.

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Maybe someone know a specific developer who is creating descriptions? We can make a number of specific proposals and send it to him (just...don't tell me it's a Josh himself)))

Edited by Phenomenum

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IIRC Josh mentioned most tooltip information is procedurally generated by the engine. BMac would likely be the guy for this stuff.

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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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I agree with every part of the opening post, but the lack of attribute values in the tooltips in particular is just weird.

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If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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IIRC Josh mentioned most tooltip information is procedurally generated by the engine. BMac would likely be the guy for this stuff.

Ok, thanks. I will try to contact him (at least he should be able to implement Int-updated abilities duration).

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I especially like the descriptions (mostly in equipment) where it's not clear whether the damage or effect is being applied to the player or the enemy.

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That's something that Deadfire inherited from PoE1.

 

 

I still remember that Comtessa's Cage, lol!

 

PS:Yes, in some cases the descriptions are not clear. With some abilites you get a gist of what it'll do but can't really gauge performance. With experience you learn, but that may add a few unnecessary(for some people) hours. 

Edited by Hulk'O'Saurus

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