Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

The Big Post of Stacking Rules


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1
grasida

grasida

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

Deadfire is a game with a lot of extremely complicated, intricate mechanics that aren’t described clearly in game and are not intuitive for most players, even those with a good bit of experience in the game. It’s fine for games to have lots of complicated mechanics. I really like it, in fact, and it keeps the community more engaged with discussing builds and figuring things out. But, information about how things work should also be easy to find. This post is an attempt to compile one set of the game’s mechanics and present them in a readable format. I hope, if I do my job well enough, that it and other in depth posts can eventually be compiled into a stickied, master thread of in-depth game mechanics. This post is absolutely incomplete, and will have omissions and inaccuracies. I’ll try to keep the post up to date with my current knowledge of the game mechanics. Please let me know if you have any problems with readability or if anything is incorrect.

Deadfire Stacking Rules:

Bonuses from Equipment Stack:

Spoiler


Active Buffs Don’t Stack:
Spoiler

-Some damage taken debuffs stack and others don't. Sworn enemy stacks with takedown combo and inspired beacon, but the takedown combo and inspired beacon don't stack with each other.

Passive Buffs Stack:

Spoiler


Hit-To-Crit Conversion and Other Boosts Don’t Stack Additively:
Spoiler


Some Buffs or Debuffs With Similar Effects but Different Names Stack:
Spoiler


I apologize for the “I don’t knows”, “I thinks” and “I don’t recalls”. I’ll test them if and update the post as appropriate once I do know. I’m sure I’ve missed some important things to mention. Please remind me!


Edited by grasida, 11 August 2018 - 07:06 AM.

  • AndreaColombo, thundercleese, baldurs_gate_2 and 7 others like this

#2
thundercleese

thundercleese

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 465 posts

So I just did a quick test on Intuitive and Berzerker - they do indeed stack. I believe that stat increases from abilities/spells don't stack with inspirations, but the other effects of the inspirations do stack. Might inspirations won't stack with Devotions' +4, Int inspirations won't stack with Duality, etc.



#3
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14860 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Right, +INT/CON from Duality of Mortal Presence will not stack with Inspirations (Smart,Fit etc.) - active.

+MIG from Helwalker stacks with everything - passive.

So far so good I think.

Accuracy Bonus of Devotions stacks with Perception Inspirations (or did so at release).

Edited by Boeroer, 11 August 2018 - 02:40 AM.


#4
grasida

grasida

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

So I just did a quick test on Intuitive and Berzerker - they do indeed stack. I believe that stat increases from abilities/spells don't stack with inspirations, but the other effects of the inspirations do stack. Might inspirations won't stack with Devotions' +4, Int inspirations won't stack with Duality, etc.

Not all the effects of the inspirations stack, unless I’m badly mistaken. Armor from hardy, penetration from tenacious, power level from acute, etc. all don’t stack with bonuses from other sources. I don’t know about stride from fleet and other stride boosts. That’s something to test. Concentration always stacks into layers, I think. I suppose conversion just always stacks, but it’s worth testing berserker and fighter buffs with things like merciless gaze, the potion of perfect aim, etc.

Right, +INT/CON from Duality of Mortal Presence will not stack with Inspirations (Smart,Fit etc.) - active.
+MIG from Helwalker stacks with everything - passive.
So far so good I think.
Accuracy Bonus of Devotions stacks with Perception Inspirations (or did so at release).


I think bonuses or penalties from stats gained from inspirations will always stack with direct bonuses to the derived stats. So the action speed boosts on swift strikes and deleterious alacrity stack with the dex inspirations given by the same abilities.

#5
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14860 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
No. As I said: Duality of Mortal Presence raises INT directly and supresses the INT bonus of INT inspirations.

Devotions raises ACC directly but does not supress the PER bonus of PER inspirations.

Attack Speed bonus + DEX inspirations: sure.

Edited by Boeroer, 11 August 2018 - 04:28 AM.


#6
grasida

grasida

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Deadfire Backer
That’s why I said derived stat. Action speed from dex will stack with an action speed boost. Two buffs to dex won’t stack with each other, whether they’re inspirations or not, unless one is from a passive (e.g. I think the conjuror familiar can give +3 to dex that will stack with a dex inspiration)

#7
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14860 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
Ok. Now I understood what you meant.

Yet there are exceptions to "two [active] buffs to x will not stack".

For example Vigorous Defense or Llengrath Safeguard or Circle of Defense will stack with Mirrored Image (was mentioned in the OP : thumbsup:).

Which is bad. I mean it's good for your char of course, but bad for consistency. :)

Internally it might be that +x to all and +y to deflection are two different groups, but which "normal" player can understand let alone suspect this?

Edited by Boeroer, 11 August 2018 - 04:38 AM.


#8
grasida

grasida

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

I tested minor avatar and the greatsword damage modal and they don’t stack. Very disappointing for priests of berath. I want to take yet another opportunity to express how much I hate that weapon modals don’t stack with other buffs.

I tested hit-to-crit conversion on a battlemage with intuitive, merciless gaze, the potion of merciless gaze and the potion of perfect aim. I think they all stack. I didn’t test long enough to see a confirmed conversion from both the potion of merciless gaze and the spell merciless gaze while both were active, but they both showed up on the buffs list. For all the other buffs, I clearly noticed each separate one being mentioned as responsible for hit-to-crit conversion in the combat log while all were active. It seems all sources of conversion stack, though not multiplicatively.

I tested damage reduction with claim and refusal and guardian stance and they don’t stack. That means item granted modals are considered actives and don’t stack and damage reduction doesn’t stack (unless someone knows of an exception to this).

 

Damage received boosts like from sworn enemy stack inconsistently. Sworn enemy stacks with takedown combo and inspired beacon, but takedown combo and inspired beacon don't stack with each other.

 

Can anyone think of -AR to a specific armor type from an active ability? I'd like to test if that stacks with general AR debuffs.


Edited by grasida, 11 August 2018 - 07:04 AM.

  • AndreaColombo likes this

#9
Elric Galad

Elric Galad

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1568 posts
  • Location:Paris
Do Flanked deflection and AR debuff stack with other deflection and AR debuff ?

In PoE1, Flanked stacked with everything...

#10
Krowseph

Krowseph

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 49 posts
In regards to active buffs not stacking, that means zealous endurance and gilded enmity (Goldpact) AR buffs don’t stack?

#11
Baldiedash

Baldiedash

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Location:Somewhere in Sweden
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that. Nalvi for the group, Cosmo for the watcher, or the other way around of course. I haven't tested the pet-splitter properly yet so I don't know if you can create two Nalvis or not, or whether that would stack if you could (you doctor Moreau wannabee, you :) )

 

Also @grasida if you take requests: I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

 

Cheers.


Edited by Baldiedash, 06 January 2019 - 08:48 AM.


#12
Baldiedash

Baldiedash

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 39 posts
  • Location:Somewhere in Sweden
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

In regards to active buffs not stacking, that means zealous endurance and gilded enmity (Goldpact) AR buffs don’t stack?

Yes that would be correct, they don't stack.



#13
djinnxy

djinnxy

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that. 

 The personal pet buffs stack with everything except another pets party wide buffs. The party-wide pet buffs stack with everything except each other and personal pet buffs if you take the berath's blessing for an eder pet.

 

i.e. if you take zorro and pozzi which are both reflex party wide, only the watcher pet bonus applies.

 

if you take trixie which has a 25% personal stride bonus and eder takes epsilon which is 10% party wide stride bonus, the party wide bonus cancels out the personal bonus completely and you only get 10% stride bonus.

 

There are odd instances where the watcher gets double the bonus for one but not the other when stacking pet bonuses. Pretty sure that's not as intended.


Edited by djinnxy, 06 January 2019 - 01:18 PM.


#14
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14860 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

 I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

 

I believe that is correct.



#15
Elric Galad

Elric Galad

    (10) Necromancer

  • Members
  • 1568 posts
  • Location:Paris

By the way, maybe Berseker Hit to Crit stacks because it's a MELEE Hit to Crit (same as how Melee accuracy stacked with Accuracy in PoE1)

 

Or coded as a passive.



#16
grasida

grasida

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 240 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

Do Flanked deflection and AR debuff stack with other deflection and AR debuff ?
In PoE1, Flanked stacked with everything...

I can’t recall. I remember that I did specifically test this, I just don’t remember the result. Unfortunately, I’m swamped with work for the next week (procrastinating on grad school papers now, but I’m working outside precisely so I can’t do something like start up Deadfire and start messing around), then I’m going to be away from my computer for 3 weeks after that. If someone posts an answer, I’ll put it in the OP.

edit: Actually, I reread the OP and I implied that flanking does stack in the section about -all defenses stacking with -deflection, but I didn’t address flanking directly. I’d still rather specifically confirm it before updating the OP.

By the way, maybe Berseker Hit to Crit stacks because it's a MELEE Hit to Crit (same as how Melee accuracy stacked with Accuracy in PoE1)

Or coded as a passive.

Both of those explanations make sense. Actually, I don’t know whether stacking is hardcoded, or whether there’s actually just a flag that someone sets that allows a buff to stack. I suspect it might be the latter.

Also @grasida if you take requests: I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

Cheers.

I might not have the time to test this, but if boeroer confirms this, I’ll put it in the OP. I take “I believe” as expressing some uncertainty.

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that.

The personal pet buffs stack with everything except another pets party wide buffs. The party-wide pet buffs stack with everything except each other and personal pet buffs if you take the berath's blessing for an eder pet.

i.e. if you take zorro and pozzi which are both reflex party wide, only the watcher pet bonus applies.

if you take trixie which has a 25% personal stride bonus and eder takes epsilon which is 10% party wide stride bonus, the party wide bonus cancels out the personal bonus completely and you only get 10% stride bonus.

There are odd instances where the watcher gets double the bonus for one but not the other when stacking pet bonuses. Pretty sure that's not as intended.
When I get the time, I’ll put pet stacking rules in the OP. Have you found any consistency to the odd issues where the watcher gets a double bonus?

Edited by grasida, 06 January 2019 - 09:21 PM.


#17
djinnxy

djinnxy

    (3) Conjurer

  • Members
  • 131 posts
  • Deadfire Backer

 

 

When I get the time, I’ll put pet stacking rules in the OP. Have you found any consistency to the odd issues where the watcher gets a double bonus?

 

 

No. Each pet would have to be tested in both spots. Some that don't even have the same effect are overwritten while others are sometimes double posted in the watcher effects on the character page. The general rule of party-wide do not stack with each other or personal applies over all, but clearly the devs desired effects of 2 pets are bugged in many cases.



#18
undead_lee

undead_lee

    (1) Prestidigitator

  • Members
  • 13 posts
Does gears enchantments and abilities stacking with each other?

For example, Self Mending(+2ar when hp below 50%) from Devil of Caroc Breastplate and Llengrath's Safeguard.

Can't test it myself, now. Thanks.

#19
baldurs_gate_2

baldurs_gate_2

    (7) Enchanter

  • Members
  • 872 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Does Razor's Edge stack with Scordeo's Adaptive?



#20
Boeroer

Boeroer

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 14860 posts
  • Location:Bucharest, Romania
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Yes, it stacks with everything since it's a passive.

 

Like Adaptive, too since it's from a weapon. Both stack with Dance of Death.

 

So with 10 wounds and maxed Dance of Death you already get +22 ACC + Adaptive on top.


Edited by Boeroer, 27 January 2019 - 11:44 PM.

  • baldurs_gate_2 likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users