The Big Post of Stacking Rules

[grasida]

Deadfire is a game with a lot of extremely complicated, intricate mechanics that aren’t described clearly in game and are not intuitive for most players, even those with a good bit of experience in the game. It’s fine for games to have lots of complicated mechanics. I really like it, in fact, and it keeps the community more engaged with discussing builds and figuring things out. But, information about how things work should also be easy to find. This post is an attempt to compile one set of the game’s mechanics and present them in a readable format. I hope, if I do my job well enough, that it and other in depth posts can eventually be compiled into a stickied, master thread of in-depth game mechanics. This post is absolutely incomplete, and will have omissions and inaccuracies. I’ll try to keep the post up to date with my current knowledge of the game mechanics. Please let me know if you have any problems with readability or if anything is incorrect.

Deadfire Stacking Rules:

Bonuses from Equipment Stack:

Almost all bonuses or maluses gained from equipment stack with each other. If you have a ring that gives +1 dex and boots that give +1 dex, you’ll get +2 dex. There are some weird edge cases. Lightning strikes granted by Lord Darryn’s Voulge won’t stack at all with the monk’s lightning strikes, but the action speed will stack with swift strikes and swift flurry. The modal granted by Claim and Refusal doesn’t stack with other active sources of the buffs it provides, presumably because modals are “active”. But typically if two bonuses from equipment don’t stack, it’s likely a bug and should be reported.

Active Buffs Don’t Stack:

What are active buffs? Anything that comes from food, a consumable, a chanter’s chant or an ability on the left side of the ability screen is “active”, even if it’s a modal that stays on permanently like paladin auras and fighter stances. Weapon modals are “active”, which means they don’t stack, and yes, that sucks and is dumb.
If you cast mirror image and have a chanter chanting “the silver knights shields broke both arrow and blade”, you’ll only get the deflection buff from mirror image. If you activate the spear modal for +1 engagement, it won’t stack with the +1 engagement from the silver knights chant. But you will get the penalty from the modal, just not the bonus. But modal penalties also don’t stack, which can be helpful sometimes, like when using the small shield modal with a sabre, for example.
There are exceptions to this.
-Conversion from one attack result to another, like hit-to-crit stacks from all sources, though not additively.
-Lashes typically stack. The flames of devotion upgrades will stack with the Aefylath Ues Mith Fyr even though both are “active”. If anyone can think of other sources of “active” lashes, let me know so I can test them.

 

-Some damage taken debuffs stack and others don't. Sworn enemy stacks with takedown combo and inspired beacon, but the takedown combo and inspired beacon don't stack with each other.

Passive Buffs Stack:

What are passive buffs? Anything that comes of a class’s core passive or from the right side of its skill tree is passive. These stack with everything. I can’t think of a single one that doesn’t. So helwalkers’ might bonus will stack with their thunderous blows ability. Note, class passives can be attached to active abilities. The buffs granted by conjuror’s summoned familiars fully stack with everything because they’re a class passive, even though the familiar summon is an active ability.

Hit-To-Crit Conversion and Other Boosts Don’t Stack Additively:

Hit to crit, graze to hit, etc. don’t stack additively, but rather each chance to convert is rolled separately. That means if you are a devoted using a sword with single weapon style you don’t have a 45% chance to convert a hit to a crit. Rather you have a 40% chance (0.75 * 0.8 = 0.6, 1 - 0.6 = 0.4, 0.4 * 100 = 40). The same is true for other types of conversion. This also applies to “resistance” or the chance to negate an attack entirely. Each chance is rolled separately. I’m not sure if there are any other cases of this.

Some Buffs or Debuffs With Similar Effects but Different Names Stack:

This mostly is about defenses. +30 Deflection is not the same kind of buff as +20 all defenses. So mirrored images will stack with borrowed instinct, for example. The same applies to debuffs. Shining Beacon applies -10 to all defenses and Divine Mark applies -25 deflection. Those aren’t the same debuff, even if they affect the same stat, so they will stack. I don’t recall exactly, but I think flanked will stack with everything. So a level 7 mystic could reduce a single target’s deflection by 55 (-10 barbs of condemnation, -25 divine mark, -10 phantom foes, -10 psychovampiric shield). On the other hand, I armor buffs don’t work this way. +5 to piercing AR from woodskin won’t stack with spirit shield to make a low level sorceror immune to fire arms.

I apologize for the “I don’t knows”, “I thinks” and “I don’t recalls”. I’ll test them if and update the post as appropriate once I do know. I’m sure I’ve missed some important things to mention. Please remind me!

Edited August 11, 2018 by grasida

[thundercleese]

So I just did a quick test on Intuitive and Berzerker - they do indeed stack. I believe that stat increases from abilities/spells don't stack with inspirations, but the other effects of the inspirations do stack. Might inspirations won't stack with Devotions' +4, Int inspirations won't stack with Duality, etc.

[Boeroer]

Right, +INT/CON from Duality of Mortal Presence will not stack with Inspirations (Smart,Fit etc.) - active.

 

+MIG from Helwalker stacks with everything - passive.

 

So far so good I think.

 

Accuracy Bonus of Devotions stacks with Perception Inspirations (or did so at release).

Edited August 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[grasida]

So I just did a quick test on Intuitive and Berzerker - they do indeed stack. I believe that stat increases from abilities/spells don't stack with inspirations, but the other effects of the inspirations do stack. Might inspirations won't stack with Devotions' +4, Int inspirations won't stack with Duality, etc.

Not all the effects of the inspirations stack, unless I’m badly mistaken. Armor from hardy, penetration from tenacious, power level from acute, etc. all don’t stack with bonuses from other sources. I don’t know about stride from fleet and other stride boosts. That’s something to test. Concentration always stacks into layers, I think. I suppose conversion just always stacks, but it’s worth testing berserker and fighter buffs with things like merciless gaze, the potion of perfect aim, etc.

 

Right, +INT/CON from Duality of Mortal Presence will not stack with Inspirations (Smart,Fit etc.) - active.

+MIG from Helwalker stacks with everything - passive.

So far so good I think.

Accuracy Bonus of Devotions stacks with Perception Inspirations (or did so at release).

I think bonuses or penalties from stats gained from inspirations will always stack with direct bonuses to the derived stats. So the action speed boosts on swift strikes and deleterious alacrity stack with the dex inspirations given by the same abilities.

[Boeroer]

No. As I said: Duality of Mortal Presence raises INT directly and supresses the INT bonus of INT inspirations.

 

Devotions raises ACC directly but does not supress the PER bonus of PER inspirations.

 

Attack Speed bonus + DEX inspirations: sure.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[grasida]

That’s why I said derived stat. Action speed from dex will stack with an action speed boost. Two buffs to dex won’t stack with each other, whether they’re inspirations or not, unless one is from a passive (e.g. I think the conjuror familiar can give +3 to dex that will stack with a dex inspiration)

[Boeroer]

Ok. Now I understood what you meant.

 

Yet there are exceptions to "two [active] buffs to x will not stack".

 

For example Vigorous Defense or Llengrath Safeguard or Circle of Defense will stack with Mirrored Image (was mentioned in the OP : thumbsup:).

 

Which is bad. I mean it's good for your char of course, but bad for consistency.

 

Internally it might be that +x to all and +y to deflection are two different groups, but which "normal" player can understand let alone suspect this?

Edited August 11, 2018 by Boeroer

[grasida]

I tested minor avatar and the greatsword damage modal and they don’t stack. Very disappointing for priests of berath. I want to take yet another opportunity to express how much I hate that weapon modals don’t stack with other buffs.

I tested hit-to-crit conversion on a battlemage with intuitive, merciless gaze, the potion of merciless gaze and the potion of perfect aim. I think they all stack. I didn’t test long enough to see a confirmed conversion from both the potion of merciless gaze and the spell merciless gaze while both were active, but they both showed up on the buffs list. For all the other buffs, I clearly noticed each separate one being mentioned as responsible for hit-to-crit conversion in the combat log while all were active. It seems all sources of conversion stack, though not multiplicatively.

I tested damage reduction with claim and refusal and guardian stance and they don’t stack. That means item granted modals are considered actives and don’t stack and damage reduction doesn’t stack (unless someone knows of an exception to this).

 

Damage received boosts like from sworn enemy stack inconsistently. Sworn enemy stacks with takedown combo and inspired beacon, but takedown combo and inspired beacon don't stack with each other.

 

Can anyone think of -AR to a specific armor type from an active ability? I'd like to test if that stacks with general AR debuffs.

Edited August 11, 2018 by grasida

[Elric Galad]

Do Flanked deflection and AR debuff stack with other deflection and AR debuff ?

 

In PoE1, Flanked stacked with everything...

[Krowseph]

In regards to active buffs not stacking, that means zealous endurance and gilded enmity (Goldpact) AR buffs don’t stack?

[Baldiedash]

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that. Nalvi for the group, Cosmo for the watcher, or the other way around of course. I haven't tested the pet-splitter properly yet so I don't know if you can create two Nalvis or not, or whether that would stack if you could (you doctor Moreau wannabee, you )

 

Also @grasida if you take requests: I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

 

Cheers.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Baldiedash

[Baldiedash]

In regards to active buffs not stacking, that means zealous endurance and gilded enmity (Goldpact) AR buffs don’t stack?

Yes that would be correct, they don't stack.

[djinnxy]

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that. 

 The personal pet buffs stack with everything except another pets party wide buffs. The party-wide pet buffs stack with everything except each other and personal pet buffs if you take the berath's blessing for an eder pet.

 

i.e. if you take zorro and pozzi which are both reflex party wide, only the watcher pet bonus applies.

 

if you take trixie which has a 25% personal stride bonus and eder takes epsilon which is 10% party wide stride bonus, the party wide bonus cancels out the personal bonus completely and you only get 10% stride bonus.

 

There are odd instances where the watcher gets double the bonus for one but not the other when stacking pet bonuses. Pretty sure that's not as intended.

Edited January 6, 2019 by djinnxy

[Boeroer]

 I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

 

I believe that is correct.

[Elric Galad]

By the way, maybe Berseker Hit to Crit stacks because it's a MELEE Hit to Crit (same as how Melee accuracy stacked with Accuracy in PoE1)

 

Or coded as a passive.

[grasida]

Do Flanked deflection and AR debuff stack with other deflection and AR debuff ?

In PoE1, Flanked stacked with everything...

I can’t recall. I remember that I did specifically test this, I just don’t remember the result. Unfortunately, I’m swamped with work for the next week (procrastinating on grad school papers now, but I’m working outside precisely so I can’t do something like start up Deadfire and start messing around), then I’m going to be away from my computer for 3 weeks after that. If someone posts an answer, I’ll put it in the OP.

 

edit: Actually, I reread the OP and I implied that flanking does stack in the section about -all defenses stacking with -deflection, but I didn’t address flanking directly. I’d still rather specifically confirm it before updating the OP.

 

By the way, maybe Berseker Hit to Crit stacks because it's a MELEE Hit to Crit (same as how Melee accuracy stacked with Accuracy in PoE1)

 

Or coded as a passive.

Both of those explanations make sense. Actually, I don’t know whether stacking is hardcoded, or whether there’s actually just a flag that someone sets that allows a buff to stack. I suspect it might be the latter.

 

Also @grasida if you take requests: I wonder how the damage reductions stack. Like the ones from Nerian's Ward and the Undying Burden. Would I be correct in guessing it adds like the hit-to-crit conversions.

 

Cheers.

I might not have the time to test this, but if boeroer confirms this, I’ll put it in the OP. I take “I believe” as expressing some uncertainty.

 

 

This might be obvious to others, but anyway, pets seem to be equipment so they stack - yes? That goes for Edér's pet as well, so there should be a bit more recovery stacking with that.

 

The personal pet buffs stack with everything except another pets party wide buffs. The party-wide pet buffs stack with everything except each other and personal pet buffs if you take the berath's blessing for an eder pet.

 

i.e. if you take zorro and pozzi which are both reflex party wide, only the watcher pet bonus applies.

 

if you take trixie which has a 25% personal stride bonus and eder takes epsilon which is 10% party wide stride bonus, the party wide bonus cancels out the personal bonus completely and you only get 10% stride bonus.

 

There are odd instances where the watcher gets double the bonus for one but not the other when stacking pet bonuses. Pretty sure that's not as intended.

When I get the time, I’ll put pet stacking rules in the OP. Have you found any consistency to the odd issues where the watcher gets a double bonus? Edited January 7, 2019 by grasida

[djinnxy]

 

 

When I get the time, I’ll put pet stacking rules in the OP. Have you found any consistency to the odd issues where the watcher gets a double bonus?

 

 

No. Each pet would have to be tested in both spots. Some that don't even have the same effect are overwritten while others are sometimes double posted in the watcher effects on the character page. The general rule of party-wide do not stack with each other or personal applies over all, but clearly the devs desired effects of 2 pets are bugged in many cases.

[undead_lee]

Does gears enchantments and abilities stacking with each other?

 

For example, Self Mending（+2ar when hp below 50%） from Devil of Caroc Breastplate and Llengrath's Safeguard.

 

Can't test it myself, now. Thanks.

[baldurs_gate_2]

Does Razor's Edge stack with Scordeo's Adaptive?

[Boeroer]

Yes, it stacks with everything since it's a passive.

 

Like Adaptive, too since it's from a weapon. Both stack with Dance of Death.

 

So with 10 wounds and maxed Dance of Death you already get +22 ACC + Adaptive on top.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Boeroer

[falchen]

Worth mentioning that as far as I can tell regen all stacks.

[baldurs_gate_2]

Yes, it stacks with everything since it's a passive.

 

Like Adaptive, too since it's from a weapon. Both stack with Dance of Death.

 

So with 10 wounds and maxed Dance of Death you already get +22 ACC + Adaptive on top.

Hmm ok thank you. Citzal's Martial Power does not stack with it, because it is considered a active buff i guess.

 

And with which weapons does the +10 acc fire ring work?

[Boeroer]

Citzal's Martial Power will suppress Dance of Death I think. But you could use Eldritch Aim to raise your ACC by another 5 (if you haven't a PER inspiration already).

 

As far as I know the only weapons are Dragon's Dowry, Kalakoth's Minor Blights (burn version) and Firebrand. 

[baldurs_gate_2]

Citzal's Martial Power will suppress Dance of Death I think. But you could use Eldritch Aim to raise your ACC by another 5 (if you haven't a PER inspiration already).

 

As far as I know the only weapons are Dragon's Dowry, Kalakoth's Minor Blights (burn version) and Firebrand. 

Hmm, Sun & Moon does work with it, but i don't think Magran's Favor does. A good try would be SSS Keeper of the Flame flail.

[Elric Galad]

 

As far as I know the only weapons are Dragon's Dowry, Kalakoth's Minor Blights (burn version) and Firebrand. 

Hmm, Sun & Moon does work with it, but i don't think Magran's Favor does. A good try would be SSS Keeper of the Flame flail.

 

 

Wow, that's relevant. Could this weapon be even more optimal than I thought for a Skald ?