Political Thread XX

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Barack Obama is giving a speech in Illinois bemoaning the divisive nature of our politics and how Trump inflaming our worst passions. Now THAT is irony. After he ran a ad that said and I quote "Every time a Republican is elected another black church burns".

 

 

Source? Google turns up nothing.

[Hurlshort]

 

Barack Obama is giving a speech in Illinois bemoaning the divisive nature of our politics and how Trump inflaming our worst passions. Now THAT is irony. After he ran a ad that said and I quote "Every time a Republican is elected another black church burns".

 

 

Source? Google turns up nothing.

 

 

Yeah, I tried to find it too. Doesn't sound like anything I remember being said.

[Guard Dog]

Correction, it was not Obama. It was the 1998 mid terms. But the ad was run and paid for by the Democrat Party and the NAACP (essentially the same thing). I found the pro Obama ad I was confusing it with. They came just  short of insinuating John McCain was pro-Klan. The implication was there they just left it to the viewer to put it together. It was a PAC paid ad that ran in North Carolina & Virginia. I'll let you guess what areas it was run in.

 

I could not find the audio but the ad was one of several discussed for how terrible it was in the Chicago Tribune:

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-11-02/news/0011020277_1_naacp-national-voter-fund-hate-crimes-bill-ad

 

I remember it. Quite a big deal was made over it. I'm surprised it was so hard to dig up. I did see a number of pro Republican ads that were pretty terrible that were even older. You don't think Google would deliberately bury an ad that makes the Dems look bad do you? Nah.   

Edited September 7, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Malcador]

Wasn't that hard to dig up, searched "democrat ad republican burn church" and got a bunch of decent stuff.

 

Funnily enough the wikipedia article for George Wallace for some reason.

Edited September 7, 2018 by Malcador

[Pidesco]

Wait, it's a scandal that people associate the post civil rights Republican party with racism and racists?

 

Why, i never.

[Gromnir]

Barack Obama is giving a speech in Illinois bemoaning the divisive nature of our politics and how Trump inflaming our worst passions. Now THAT is irony. After he ran a ad that said and I quote "Every time a Republican is elected another black church burns".  Or another that promised to "punish our enemies" (Republicans... WHITE Republicans) if people voted Democrat. And he was never ashamed to sneer arrogantly at the unwashed knuckle draggers from flyover country. You know the ones. The bitter clingers. Hillary Clinton's deplorables.

 

Of course he IS right about Trump. But he is, like Trump & Clinton, and the rest just one more rat infesting the sewer. Covered in s--t and complaining about how dirty the other rats are.

 

at the very least, am thinking obama is a poor standard bearer for any kinda bipartisan rejection o' trump.  right or wrong, many o' the angry folks in middle america who elected trump, people who had actual voted for obama btw, put the orange one in the white house 'cause they felt obama had betrayed them and betrayed american values... or somesuch.  a feeling don't need be legit to be real, and all those lower middle-class working joes and janes who became trump supporters after having voted obama is having the religious zeal o' converts. reasonable arguments, particular from obama, is gonna antagonize such people.  am sure we have all seen the frothing and mindless idolatry trump enjoys from a few o' his more extreme converts, yes?

 

...

 

and the thing is, gd is at least partial correct.  is no single cause for how the election o' somebody as divisive, mendacious and erratic as trump were possible, but obama need shoulder some significant part o' the blame.  we posted the pen and a phone nonsense from obama earlier in this thread, no?  the former president did not want to endure the designed gridlock o' US federal system, and so he frequent took matters into his own hands.  mccain voted against repeal o' obamacare, but he made clear he did so 'cause the republicans were perverting the system to force legislation through the senate which were not open debated and discussed bipartisan by committees and on the floor. democrats cheered mccain's resolve, right up until he pointed out how his rejection o' obamacare repeal were a legacy o' the unilateral and flawed manner in which obamacare were original passed by democrats and the president  years previous. understandable and reasonable lack o' trust o' any traditional washington politician made a tough-talking outsider such as trump possible. sow. reap.

 

obama use o' presidential powers to circumvent the Congress and Courts, and the complicit democrats in Congress, were a kinda well-intentioned tyranny.  make clear, we don't mean tyranny in the sense o' cruelty or harshness, but rather in the limited denotative sense o' corrupting traditional American federal norms which rely on checks and balances, and instead placing power into the hands o' a single actor: the President. obama were trying to help America improve, in spite o' itself.  in so doing, he undermined the trust and belief many americans had for federal institutions, and the faith Americans had in basic institutions were at least as important as the actual legal limits and powers contained within the US Constitution.... and is no single pen stroke or phone call which can repair lost faith.  obama also created the means by which a successor President with less enlightened goals, could become a more connotative and denotative tyrant. the unheeded warnings o' a handful o' republicans and libertarians as democrats and the President used executive orders to bootstrap obamacare into functionality, or when senate rules for filibuster were erased, were as prophecies from cassandra. oh, and obama increase in fed's ability to engage in domestic spying o' American citizens should terrify all as such powers in the hands o' folks with anything other than saintly motives is gonna eventual be perverted for terrible purpose.  the dangerous precedent being created by obama shoulda' been obvious and horrifying, but nobody would listen.

 

so now we are stuck with trump, likely for another couple o' years. obama may lament the excesses and flaws he sees in his successor, but obama not only made trump's election possible by increasing American divisiveness, but the orange one's capacity to do harm were made possible, at least in part, by obama efforts... with only the remaining diminished institutional gridlock the obama administration left in tatters standing 'tween Americans and any number o' nightmare scenarios.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 7, 2018 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

Wait, it's a scandal that people associate the post civil rights Republican party with racism and racists?

 

Why, i never.

Neither major modern US political party has the monopoly on racism. Either in practicing it or fomenting it for electoral gain. My analogy of s--t covered rats in a sewer commenting on how dirty the other rats are is apt. 

 

There are naught but devils in hell Pidesco. 

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnir: I may be wrong but Trump's presence in the White House today is owed less to anti-Obama zeal (although that is a big piece of the cake) and more to the fact that he was running against what most folks found an unacceptable alternative in Hillary Clinton. Everyone knew what they were getting from her. Trump, for all his life in the public eye, was an unknown in the political arena. He was telling them things they wanted to hear in a bombastic manner no one had heard from a presidential candidate in living memory. Behind door #1 was a known and thoroughly unpleasant option in Clinton, door #2 was a mystery. Enough voters went for door number 2.

 

Had the Democrats run nearly anyone else, Joe Biden for example if they could keep him from saying stupid things, 2016 turns out completely different.

 

Had the Republicans candidates been "team players" and compromised on a smaller field from the get-go it's likely he would not have survived the primaries. By the time the field was winnowed down to a few candidates most republicans might have coalesced around Trump had it sewn up. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if he's not really the idiot he seems. Bombast and crass twitter commentary got him where he is because it IS different. Maybe he's "dancing with the one that brung him" (sic). Then I hear he's like this all the time so yeah, he's an idiot.

 

On your last point I completely 100% agree and have been saying as much for years. Don't rejoice when "your guy" breaks the rules. Now that they are broken you won't like it when "not your guy" is doing it. 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

@Gromnir: I may be wrong but Trump's presence in the White House today is owed less to anti-Obama zeal (although that is a big piece of the cake) and more to the fact that he was running against what most folks found an unacceptable alternative in Hillary Clinton. Everyone knew what they were getting from her. Trump, for all his life in the public eye, was an unknown in the political arena. He was telling them things they wanted to hear in a bombastic manner no one had heard from a presidential candidate in living memory. Behind door #1 was a known and thoroughly unpleasant option in Clinton, door #2 was a mystery. Enough voters went for door number 2.

 

 

 

 

is why we specific noted the, "understandable and reasonable lack o' trust o' any traditional washington politician made a tough-talking outsider such as trump possible. sow. reap." 

 

we observed the problem weren't simple a rejection o' obama.  tween bush and obama administrations, voter faith (democrat or republican) in any Washington politician were serious eroded to the point where fringe voices with less experience were actual deemed more attractive by voters.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Trump's election win had ltitle to do with Obama. It had largely to do with Clinton. She could not convince the people who voted for Obama to vote for her. She drove black voters away.  They also didn't see Trujmp as some big bad racist out to reenslave them like the Demos tried to claim.I guarantee you if the Dems had selected almost anyone but her Dems likely win.  If they were smart they would slect some minority to run. If you are gonna run on identity politics you might as well go all the way.

[Hurlshort]

I'm guessing not too many Obama voters voted for Trump. Based on the numbers, it seems more like they simply didn't vote at all.

[Gromnir]

I'm guessing not too many Obama voters voted for Trump. Based on the numbers, it seems more like they simply didn't vote at all.

https://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502032052/lots-of-people-voted-for-obama-and-trump-heres-where-in-3-charts

 

"Donald Trump's surprise victory on Tuesday came largely due to his over-performance of expectations in the Midwest. His populist, anti-trade deal message was tailor-made for this region, but polling hadn't shown him pulling ahead of rival Hillary Clinton there.

 

"But on Election Night, it was clear the surveys had missed a massive surge in some places and shifts in others of white, working-class voters in Iowa, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that helped Donald Trump pull off the upset.

 

"These maps show where the Trump surge happened and the places that flipped from supporting President Obama in 2012 to going for the Republican nominee and billionaire real-estate mogul just four years later."

 

even in districts democrats continued to carry, there were, particular in the heartland, a significant number o' former democrat voters, o' which blue collar workers w/o college were o' particular note, who became exhausted by democrat promises and switched allegiance.

 

if it makes you feel better, white, middle-class, suburban women is leaving trump and republicans in 2018.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Pidesco]

My granddad was like that as well, at that age.

[Guard Dog]

So, if I never bought Nike products BEFORE this Kapernick kerfuffle and I don't buy them after does that still count as boycotting? 

 

See? I was a Nike boycotter before it was cool! 

 

Actually I'm boycotting a lot of other stuff too I guess. Scotch whiskey, beets, and MMORPGs. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Blarghagh]

Dwight is very disappointed in you, GD.

[Volourn]

Kap  protests 'injustice' so he signs with a  company that basically uses slave labour and has been sued multiple times by blacks and women for racist and sexist policies. LMAO

[Malcador]

Pretty weak retort by Trump, but can't expect much I suppose.

[Hurlshort]

Kap protests 'injustice' so he signs with a company that basically uses slave labour and has been sued multiple times by blacks and women for racist and sexist policies. LMAO

Not too surprising. I support the protest, but Kap himself isn't really some role model. He could find a job in football if he accepted backup pay, but he wants starter money. I am sure the protest is limiting his options, but his salary expectation is also a factor.

[Guard Dog]

TQBR below 55 over his last three seasons, demanding starter pay AND fan poison? Not a good combo there Kap. 

 

As far has the fan poison part, meh. If you don't like him there's nothing wrong with that. But he's hardly the biggest PoS to ever play in the NFL IMO. I hated Michael Vick and would have packed up every bit of Buccaneer apparel or memorabilia I own (and it's a lot) and Fed Ex'ed it to One Buccaneer Place with specific instructions on where to shove it all had the Buc's signed that piece of human waste. Next to him Kap is nothing. He hasn't actually committed any crime or harmed anyone. It's worth remembering there have been actual felons playing in the NFL. Rape, assault, even murder accusations and sometimes convictions. All Kap did was kneel. Folks should probably maintain some perspective. 

 

Like I said before, the ONLY reason this went on and became a thing is because people got bent out of shape over it. If you really want something to go away, ignore it. No fuel, no fire. 

[Hurlshort]

 Folks should probably maintain some perspective. 

 

 

This is remarkably optimistic of you. It's sports, don't expect people to be reasonable.

[Malcador]

 

Folks should probably maintain some perspective.

 

This is remarkably optimistic of you. It's sports, don't expect people to be reasonable.

 

Hey, watching millionaire men sweat and grapple each other in tight clothing is serious business.

[Guard Dog]

I'll admit, I have pretty much lost all interest in the NFL. Mainly because the league has grown dull to me. Nearly every team is running the exact same offense and defense now. Gone are the days of scheme match up. But politics is a factor to me. Can we not have just one thing in our lives that is not exploited to forcibly ram a political message into our brains? Can we not have just one thing that enjoyed for it's own sake without layers of  bullsht messaging of one thing or another? TV, movies, newspapers, magazines, news broadcasts, even f-----g comic books and computer games morph into propaganda too often. Can't we at least watch our f-----g sports in peace???

 

Actually we do have something. It's called baseball. It turns up every now and then but nowhere near as prevalent as the NFL or NBA. The NHL is also largely (not completely) politics free. 

[Guard Dog]

[Guard Dog]

Best political meme ever!

 

[Volourn]

NFL Players = We at ekneeling to protest social injustice

 

10 minutes later = sign  million dollar deal with Nike known for its slave child labour, and many accusations and charges of social injustice including racism and sexism.

 

 

BRILLIANT.

 

 

Both sides are poo poo head. This is why I keep politics out of my purchase decisions. LMAO