Poll - Strongest/ Weakest Class (1.2.0)

[thelee]

I am missing to click a button. Instead of thinking of strategy how to solve an encounter with proper spell picks, order, and timing. 

 

knowing when to empower is also a strategy... i mean, sure in the end-game empowering a PL8 or PL9 spell is still sort of an i-win button, but knowing how/when to use empower is also a skill.

Edited July 1, 2018 by thelee

[knownastherat]

Ok well, I am gonna wait for youtube TCS PotD playthrough with Wizard the strongest class to learn. wtf

 

*----

edit: now I am a little bit annoyed, a little bit ... how the **** do you explain there is no single build for Wizard in the build section? Oh perhaps because it's so strong it does not need build. Ok 

Edited July 1, 2018 by knownastherat

[thelee]

Ok well, I am gonna wait for youtube TCS PotD playthrough with Wizard the strongest class to learn. wtf

 

*----

edit: now I am a little bit annoyed, a little bit ... how the **** do you explain there is no single build for Wizard in the build section? Oh perhaps because it's so strong it does not need build. Ok 

 

frankly i think the wizard is pretty self-evident. also, # of posted builds is no indicator for how powerful a class is, and I'm not sure how you can draw this inference.

 

edit - i'm not one of those people saying wizard is #1 most powerful, but i definitely feel that it is up there.

Edited July 1, 2018 by thelee

[knownastherat]

Of course, it is an indicator. (Power)Builders who posted builds there understand, unlike people voting in this poll, what is powerful and whatnot. How is Wizard, who has x times more actives(spells) to choose from than Monk, self-evident but other (multi)classes are not? Oh other (multi)classes are not self-evident because they are based around gear Wizard does not benefit from. 

[thelee]

Of course, it is an indicator. (Power)Builders who posted builds there understand, unlike people voting in this poll, what is powerful and whatnot. How is Wizard, who has x times more actives(spells) to choose from than Monk, self-evident but other (multi)classes are not? Oh other (multi)classes are not self-evident because they are based around gear Wizard does not benefit from. 

 

To me, builds are an indication of interesting things you can do, not of power level.

 

It's like in Magic: The Gathering. You go to random forums and find a bajillion variants of all sorts of crazy deck ideas, but they're all like B-tier decks at best. Maybe occasionally one or two rises to the top. And then there's like two decks that are S/A-tier and there's not much tweaking or discussion to do with them and those are the ones that dominate tournaments. (Back when I played Friday night Magic, most of the decks people would bring would be their own ideas or tweaks of existing ideas. Very few people actually brought tournament-worthy decks. That did not mean that those tournament worthy decks weren't powerful or that all those second-tier decks everyone was messing around with were somehow amazing.)

 

But anyway, most of the builds I see are multiclass ideas, and this poll is about single classes. I don't think a wizard multiclasses particularly interestingly (other than for high-deflection degenerativeness), but that's not the entirety of whether or not the wizard is a powerful class.

Edited July 1, 2018 by thelee

[knownastherat]

To you .. from 44 builds there is 1 Wizard, and 20 solo PotD builds. So to you, the solo PotD builds are not necessarily powerful but rather ... interesting, do I understand it correctly? 

[Boeroer]

I don't care for broken combos, I don't care for Empowering spells and I don't care for Wizard buffing martial multi-class. I understand and agree with what you say but I don't understand how Wizard is the strongest. It has terrible passives, it has terrible subclasses, it has PEN and ACC, unlike weapons users who can grab a weapon with PEN and ACC, level dependent.

 

Because it can Empower Meteor Shower? Well, then I guess its the strongest. Great, design.

The barb combos were a reply to another user who asked what broken combos I mean.

 

Why wouldn't you care for empowering spells in a discussion about power? It's integral part of the game and works like intended. So it's totally reasonable to take the effects of empower into consideration when judging the power of a class. If this doesn't fit your criteria of "strongest class" then be it so - but while you said you understand what was said you refuse to acknowledge the points that were made. You may disagree, why not? But dismissing those arguments is ignorant. This thread is about strongest class/weakest class and the reasons why each player thinks they are - it's not about what you want or if you dislike the mechanic. If empower makes the wizard a lot stronger than other classes then it's a fair point to say that that's reason to vote for wizard in this scope. Also the bad subclasses don't necessarily gimp the classes power potential. It only narrows the choice. If there would be a class thst is generally weak but whose one subclass had one single overpowered ability that kills every enemy on the field then it would be a fair point to say that it's the strongest even though most people might not like that ability.

 

It's like saying "Oh the Blackbird can't be the fastest plane! It's only because of its badly designed afterburners that are too strong. I don't like afterburners so I don't understand how you can claim that it's the fastest plane."

[no1fanboy]

Interesting that so many votes for priest as weakest. I must admit that i found most of there party buffs to be very lacking in effiency. Most of them either hardly did anything or expired to quickly. The spell that gives +20 deflection was the only spell that seemed to make a big and noticeable difference in buffing my parry to the point where I actually noticed a difference. And this is a level 7 spell so you get it ao late

Edited July 2, 2018 by no1fanboy

[Boeroer]

With Devotions at +20 ACC it was one of the strongest classes in my book - now I find priests to be a bit meh. They are good to counter afflictions though. And I think it's still the class with the most AoE buffs. I'm currently doing a playthrough with Xoti as SC monk instead of priest but although she's doing great in general I have to say I miss the priest's spells.

[no1fanboy]

Would be good if the priest has more dedicated healing spells too.

[knownastherat]

 

I don't care for broken combos, I don't care for Empowering spells and I don't care for Wizard buffing martial multi-class. I understand and agree with what you say but I don't understand how Wizard is the strongest. It has terrible passives, it has terrible subclasses, it has PEN and ACC, unlike weapons users who can grab a weapon with PEN and ACC, level dependent.

 

Because it can Empower Meteor Shower? Well, then I guess its the strongest. Great, design.

The barb combos were a reply to another user who asked what broken combos I mean.

 

Why wouldn't you care for empowering spells in a discussion about power? It's integral part of the game and works like intended. So it's totally reasonable to take the effects of empower into consideration when judging the power of a class. If this doesn't fit your criteria of "strongest class" then be it so - but while you said you understand what was said you refuse to acknowledge the points that were made. You may disagree, why not? But dismissing those arguments is ignorant. This thread is about strongest class/weakest class and the reasons why each player thinks they are - it's not about what you want or if you dislike the mechanic. If empower makes the wizard a lot stronger than other classes then it's a fair point to say that that's reason to vote for wizard in this scope. Also the bad subclasses don't necessarily gimp the classes power potential. It only narrows the choice. If there would be a class thst is generally weak but whose one subclass had one single overpowered ability that kills every enemy on the field then it would be a fair point to say that it's the strongest even though most people might not like that ability.

 

It's like saying "Oh the Blackbird can't be the fastest plane! It's only because of its badly designed afterburners that are too strong. I don't like afterburners so I don't understand how you can claim that it's the fastest plane."

 

 

It's pretty simple. 

 

Empower points are a limited but replenishable resource. To replenish it one needs to rest. Considering bonuses available from not resting, Empower is simply not a contender in the context of a playthrough. 

 

"Strongest class", without definition, is a vague and stupid concept because it allows for interpretations, as seen in this thread and as seen as in Wizard being voted as strongest. It is equally stupid to judge a class based on ability to Empower high-level spells. 

 

Blackbird afterburners indeed but strongest is not fastest. That is why Blackbird was a spy plane, not a fighter jet. 

[Boeroer]

@no1fanboy: Hm... I don't know. Already in PoE the priest was about buffing (and dealing damage as a second pillar). The healing spells except Triumph of the Crusaders were pretty mediocre compared to stuff like Moonwell. Also every class had cheap access to some self healing via Veteran's Recovery.

 

So for me it's ok if the priest isn't the number one healer (also doesn't fit certain subclasses like Berath/Skean/Magran etc.). For me and my needs, Deadfire priest should excel at buffing. I wouldn't be sad if the priest also had the damage potential of the PoE version. Unfortunately that part was gimped a bit in Deadfire due to the changes to Shining Beacon and also Minor Avatar.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[Boeroer]

Blackbird afterburners indeed but strongest is not fastest. That is why Blackbird was a spy plane, not a fighter jet.

You really had to dive into that? Oh my...

 

It is ignorant to deny people their opinion and to dismiss their arguments as stupid while they are valid - because as you said: the criteria of what "strongest class" means are not clearly determined. So maybe stop calling people stupid that explain why they think an Empowered Meteor Shower or whatever spell is strong and leads them to vote as they do. As I said: feel free to disagree. I don't think wizard is strongest myself. But I wouldn't say that it's stupid to think so. I wouldn't even call somebody stupid who thinks that rogue is the best class in PoE. Now that's something to chew on...

Edited July 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[knownastherat]

 

Blackbird afterburners indeed but strongest is not fastest. That is why Blackbird was a spy plane, not a fighter jet.

You really had to dive into that? Oh my...

 

It is ignorant to deny people their opinion and to dismiss their arguments as stupid while they are valid - because as you said: the criteria of what "strongest class" means are not clearly determined. So maybe stop calling people stupid that explain why they think an Empowered Meteor Shower or whatever spell is strong and leads them to vote as they do. As I said: feel free to disagree. I don't think wizard is strongest myself. But I wouldn't say that it's stupid to think so. I wouldn't even call somebody stupid who thinks that rogue is the best class in PoE. Now that's something to chew on...

 

 

No, it is just arrogant. They do not know what they talk about. I explained why Wizard is not the strongest class but I can repeat it again: because of the stupid PEN-AR (and ACC) mechanic which martial classes can overcome by gearing up while Wizard cannot. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by knownastherat

[Dorftek]

 

Blackbird afterburners indeed but strongest is not fastest. That is why Blackbird was a spy plane, not a fighter jet.

You really had to dive into that? Oh my...

 

It is ignorant to deny people their opinion and to dismiss their arguments as stupid while they are valid - because as you said: the criteria of what "strongest class" means are not clearly determined. So maybe stop calling people stupid that explain why they think an Empowered Meteor Shower or whatever spell is strong and leads them to vote as they do. As I said: feel free to disagree. I don't think wizard is strongest myself. But I wouldn't say that it's stupid to think so. I wouldn't even call somebody stupid who thinks that rogue is the best class in PoE. Now that's something to chew on...

I always considered rogue my favourite class in PoE1! :D

[knownastherat]

I missed it so let me just note I did not call anyone stupid, I called their opinions stupid which is valid and my right. 

[Boeroer]

Yeah, because calling somebody's opinion stupid is a totally different thing than calling the person itself stupid. It's like saying: "I didn't call you ugly - I only said your face is ugly."

 

Man I love those "it's like saying" things...

[Boeroer]

No, it is just arrogant. They do not know what they talk about.

You are right: it IS arrogant to say that.

[Boeroer]

I always considered rogue my favourite class in PoE1! :D

And that's totally fine. Strongest class doesn't equal "most fun to play" class. Especially if what makes a certain class strong feels cheesy.

I also liked playing rogues in PoE by the way. I really had no obvious least favorite class because it often changed over time.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Boeroer

[djinnxy]

Awesome. After I finish my run with nalpazca/wizard with beta off i'll put beta back on and pick up where I left off near end game on my previous streetfighter/illusionist. Good to know that rogues  and especially streetfighters rank so high on your lists. I might even go back and finish a couple other games I have saved half way through with rogue.

[knownastherat]

Yeah, because calling somebody's opinion stupid is a totally different thing than calling the person itself stupid. It's like saying: "I didn't call you ugly - I only said your face is ugly."

 

Man I love those "it's like saying" things...

 

Well, while I tend to agree that both can incite a similar emotional reaction, there are two major differences between them: 1. personal attack is ad hominem fallacy and as such is usually sanctioned 2. I cannot know whether someone is permanently stupid or just saying stupid things momentarily. So .. yeah, it is different. 

[djinnxy]

I don't hear anyone complaining about being called stupid or their ideas stupid so what are you talking about? If I wasn't all that bright I'd probably go for an end game item at the beginning of the game instead of just finishing the game.

[knownastherat]

I just quoted the post I was addressing. Obviously, Boeroer was complaining, scroll up. btw how is going for the endgame item bright? I guess, it requires less than average IQ. Every ape can pick the sweetest banana, so from where I sit, there is nothing bright about it, it's just obvious.  

[djinnxy]

Just wow! Can i get a picture of your face when you put that together? Seriously lets move on to another topic.

[knownastherat]

Well, that is a personal attack and you can't so yes, let's move on.