Alright, make my Transcendent (Soul Blade/Shattered Pillar) better!

[Kine]

So he's not TERRIBLE, but I want him to be GREAT. Level 6-7 (doing this from memory!) right now, in a position where he's dying every other fight, though he DOES do some fierce damage sometimes. I'm open to rerolling, but I'd rather not restart and just make do with inefficiencies.

 

Stats

Mig  17

Con 10

Dex 17

Per 13

Int 10

Res 11

 

Abilities

CIPHER: Mind Wave, Whispers of Treason, Draining Whip, Psychic Backlash

MONK: Lesser Wounds, Force of Anguish, Swift Strikes, Two Weapon Style, Dance of Death, Torment's Reach

 

I'm open to changing pretty much whatever. Force of Anguish and Mind Wave were my two initial picks, and annoyingly they can't be changed! Equipment-wise I'm nothing special. Wearing light armor for the speed bonus - should I bump it up to something heavier?

[Haplok]

I'd say that yes, if you're dying every other fight, you should probably try wearing heavier armor.

 

I think that your Perception is kinda low for that kind of character (though that also depends on difficulty).

Edited June 13, 2018 by Haplok

[CountGrishnackh]

give him a shield (doesnt have any full attacks so not much lost) or heaviert armor, defensive options only come available @lvl 10 with monk/cypher.

i dont really think that personal defense is really the problem tho...

whats the party layout?

Edited June 13, 2018 by CountGrishnackh

[MaxQuest]

I've been thinking does Soul Blade bring enough to the table from dps perspective?

 

There is:

- Soul Annihilation which deals 10 + focus/4 afaik in v1.1.0

- Bitting Whip (+30% additive damage bonus) or Draining Whip (+20% additive damage bonus, +100% focus gain)

- Hammering Thoughts (+1 penetration with weapons)

 

So bassically SB gives you +1 pen and:

- +30% additive damage bonus plus ~total_damage/8 if taken Bitting Whip, or

- +20% additive damage bonus plus ~total_damage/4 if taken Draining Whip

 

 

 

I have a feeling that Streetfighter/Shattered Pillar will outdps a Soulblade/Shattered Pillar due to:

- streetfighter bonus

- sneak attack + backstab + deathblows

- deep wounds

- full attack abilities; and many of them have bonus penetration or accuracy

 

 

And Berserker/Shattered Pillar will likely out-dps SB/SP too, so long as there are at least 2 close enemies in the encounter.

As for stats, is there any reason not to drop RES to 3? And invest the spare points in CON and PER instead?

Edited June 13, 2018 by MaxQuest

[KDubya]

Without a re-start you can't change stats, but if it was me I'd have gone with this:

 

Might 10 or 13 - fists will top out at +50% damage add in addition to the +20% from Draining Whip so adding lots of Might has diminishing returns. Increase more if you will use a lot of damaging powers as this is the only way to increase damage.

Con 10

Dex 15 - faster is better and it helps with getting spells out

Per 18 or 15 - accuracy is very important and it helps in lots of encounters, dialogues and in finding trap/hidden objects.

Int 15 - better durations 

Res 10 - you could dump some if you are inclined and just rely on your Clarity of agony ability to clear afflictions

 

And changed to Ascendent or Beguiler instead of Soul Blade. Soul Annihilation just doesn't do enough to justify spending the focus. Back in the Beta Soul Annihilation was the bomb but its been hammered pretty hard in recent balance reviews. Beguiler can get around the sneak attack requirement by casting Phantom Foes at the start which also gets you +10 to hit everything which is very useful. Ascendent is great if you will blast out a bunch of powers. Also I'd start with Whispers of Treason and Swift Strikes

 

 

 

To salvage what you have without a re-start:

• drop Dance of Death - its good if you never/rarely get hit, such as a Trickster, Wizard or Priest of Wael with mirrored image and such. Without some massive deflection boost its better to save the Mortifications for Swift Flurry and Flagellant's Path
• drop Psychic Backlash - not worth the point
•  As a multiclass abilities are scarce so I'd plan on just a few spammable Monk powers like Force/Efficient Anguish or Torment's Reach. Hard to fit the points to take both. You will want Thunderous Blows and Clarity of Agony, Skyward Kick at level 19 or 20 is a very nice spammer for a multiclass but it means foregoing the twins or heartbeat thumping which are both great
• I find that unless you have some armor enhancing ability like Goldpact Paladin heavy armor is just not worth it. Enemies will still hit you for full damage most everytime so better to be faster in light armor with some nice bonuses and just try to avoid getting overpenetrated.
• Shields drop your accuracy and greatly reduce your attack speed while adding a really small amount of deflection. Have Eder tank, he's good at it and Fighters have a lot of abilities to make it better. 
• Get Athletics up to 10 or more. Second Wind is a life saver and there is even a belt that gets you another use of Second Wind.
• Get more healing. I have Xoti as a pure priest and she starts every fight standing behind Eder and my Monk with a Consecrated Ground heal over time as soon as I can get it . At higher levels its not as bad but focus firing can drop anyone pretty fast.
• Use your charms and dominates early and often. A Whispers of Treason from stealth can make your victim the recipient of all those gunshots instead of you.

 

A Cipher/Shattered Pillar is on my list of builds to try. 

[ErlKing]

I have a feeling that Streetfighter/Shattered Pillar will outdps a Soulblade/Shattered Pillar due to:

.....

And Berserker/Shattered Pillar will likely out-dps SB/SP too, so long as there are at least 2 close enemies in the encounter.

And Berserker/Streetfighter will probably out-dps both. Not that it's a helpful advice though, as OP asked advice for his particular combo.

 

Thus said, I want to give my opinion on Monks in general. Honestly, I don't know why everybody is crazy about Monks. Sure, there are some nifty abilities at higher levels, but right at start they are pretty boring - no Full attack abilities, except for Stunning punch, which becomes renewable on crit at high levels. Knockdown attack and AoE kick, which stagger (and later Stuns) enemies in cone, both Primary attack, so no synergy with dual wield. Fire lash and Int boost are good, but you either have them or use your abilities, so do. Rooting pain is interesting, but I'm not sure it's such gamechanger.

 

I tried to start with Monk at 1.0 version, but it was a bit underwhelming due to lack of abilities, so I started trying other classes. Maybe my expectations were too high, maybe I expected to combo special moves or something, but auto-attacking with bare fists almost all the time and general squishiness left me unimpressed.

 

I recently made a pure monk adventurer (14 lvl) and tried to use in my party. Kicks, stuns and buffs surelly made it more entertaining, but performance wise it was still not as good as my Marauder. No special effects from weapons, no crazy stacking speed buffs (frenzy + bloodlust), no fancy combat teleport for repositioning (though Flaggelant path is pretty nice). Extra stuff on crits and renewable full-attack with stunning fist are good, but without Berserker crazy hit-to-crit conversion it is unreliable in tough fights.

 

Only thing that I really like about monk is renewable resource - Wounds, on other hand almost all really cool abilities work on Mortification, so you run out of it pretty fast. Oh, and extra range on melee attacks - this is somewhat unique.

 

I probably playing Monk wrong way or something, but it wasn't that fun at earlier stages and on quick test wasn't mindblowing at midgame.

[1TTFFSSE]

So he's not TERRIBLE, but I want him to be GREAT. Level 6-7 (doing this from memory!) right now, in a position where he's dying every other fight, though he DOES do some fierce damage sometimes. I'm open to rerolling, but I'd rather not restart and just make do with inefficiencies.

 

Stats

Mig  17

Con 10

Dex 17

Per 13

Int 10

Res 11

 

Abilities

CIPHER: Mind Wave, Whispers of Treason, Draining Whip, Psychic Backlash

MONK: Lesser Wounds, Force of Anguish, Swift Strikes, Two Weapon Style, Dance of Death, Torment's Reach

 

I'm open to changing pretty much whatever. Force of Anguish and Mind Wave were my two initial picks, and annoyingly they can't be changed! Equipment-wise I'm nothing special. Wearing light armor for the speed bonus - should I bump it up to something heavier?

Might 13

Con 9

Dex 18

Per 18

Int 10

Res 10

 

CIPHER: Mind Wave, Whispers of Treason, Draining Biting Whip, Psychic Backlash, Hammering Thoughts 

MONK: Lesser Wounds, Force of Anguish, Swift Strikes, Two Weapon Style, Dance of Death, Torment's Reach

 

Those are core essential abilities

 

Also Play ascendant and not soul blade is my recommendation - you have more focus that way and can take biting whip instead of draining whip.  Also I see you mentioned dying a lot. Well use heavier armor and wepon+shield early game on PotD if you insist on going melee. It helps. Later when you have really great abilities to keep him up  with your support classes you can go pure dw or two handed.

Edited June 13, 2018 by 1TTFFSSE

[CountGrishnackh]

 

I have a feeling that Streetfighter/Shattered Pillar will outdps a Soulblade/Shattered Pillar due to:

.....

And Berserker/Shattered Pillar will likely out-dps SB/SP too, so long as there are at least 2 close enemies in the encounter.

And Berserker/Streetfighter will probably out-dps both. Not that it's a helpful advice though, as OP asked advice for his particular combo.

 

Thus said, I want to give my opinion on Monks in general. Honestly, I don't know why everybody is crazy about Monks. Sure, there are some nifty abilities at higher levels, but right at start they are pretty boring - no Full attack abilities, except for Stunning punch, which becomes renewable on crit at high levels. Knockdown attack and AoE kick, which stagger (and later Stuns) enemies in cone, both Primary attack, so no synergy with dual wield. Fire lash and Int boost are good, but you either have them or use your abilities, so do. Rooting pain is interesting, but I'm not sure it's such gamechanger.

 

I tried to start with Monk at 1.0 version, but it was a bit underwhelming due to lack of abilities, so I started trying other classes. Maybe my expectations were too high, maybe I expected to combo special moves or something, but auto-attacking with bare fists almost all the time and general squishiness left me unimpressed.

 

I recently made a pure monk adventurer (14 lvl) and tried to use in my party. Kicks, stuns and buffs surelly made it more entertaining, but performance wise it was still not as good as my Marauder. No special effects from weapons, no crazy stacking speed buffs (frenzy + bloodlust), no fancy combat teleport for repositioning (though Flaggelant path is pretty nice). Extra stuff on crits and renewable full-attack with stunning fist are good, but without Berserker crazy hit-to-crit conversion it is unreliable in tough fights.

 

Only thing that I really like about monk is renewable resource - Wounds, on other hand almost all really cool abilities work on Mortification, so you run out of it pretty fast. Oh, and extra range on melee attacks - this is somewhat unique.

 

I probably playing Monk wrong way or something, but it wasn't that fun at earlier stages and on quick test wasn't mindblowing at midgame.

Monk is simply an amazing stat-monster

+5 Might (15 with helwalker), +2 Penetration, +12 ACC, +10 Int, 45% leash, 15% faster actions, and for melee weakened on crit and heartbeat drumming

thats HUGE in statik bonuses, every activatable ability is instant cast an can simply be scripted. Multiclassed all these bonuses as pretty much for the entire fight from lvl 10 onwards.

Its also amazing for casters, +5/+15 might, +2 penetration, +12 acc, +10 Int and 15% faster actions all work for spells

[M4xw0lf]

Early Cipher abilities don't make too much sense for melee characters. I'd go with whispers of treason (still one of the best abilities of all), draining whip, possibly mental binding, hammering thoughts. If you want more CC, ring leader / mind plague and amplified wave later on. Basically everything else from the monk tree.

Edited June 13, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[Lokithecat]

Tutolios Palm, small buckler / shield, that you can attack with, and gives + unarmed damage (and wounds on hit) from Nekata blacksmith (I think?) is handy.

 

Monk feels great as a Multi, helping to provide offense to existing abilities, and a lot of good defense buffs.  I've found lately that building them with lower Might, High Per and Int really helps out.  With a decent Int you can get some really big durations on Monk abilities (Blade turning is amazing).  Although everyone shies away from it, the Con/ Armor side instead of Int / Fire is really not bad, esp. if you are dying a lot early on.  

 

There are loads of really high Armor with only 20% recovery speed penalties, even near the begining of the game.  Those will help alot (I went Bers / Hel, so was taking in much more damage than you should be).

 

Soul Blade isn't bad, whether its optimal isn't really all that relevant unless you're trying to figure out some gimmick for PotD.  The SA isn't amazing, but you should be able to use it consistently (if you're in the habit of it).  Don't wait til you've maxed Focus for it, since the SA hit will feed some Focus to your pool before calculations & emptying of pool.  The decrease cost to Shred isn't bad either, and gives some interesting options.  I haven't tested it specifically, but some other interactions with Long Pain make me think you won't get Focus from that (it seems to count as a rnaged weapon).

 

I'd almost suggest trying some sort of Range weapons (at least something off start of fight, then switch) to help your Monk side, although it will screw with your Soul Blade (doesn't get focus from Range).  I'd try using Cipher side for more debuff style effects, it doesn't realllly shine there, but its not bad.  Nuking stuff with Shreds won't get you Wounds, same as Charms, but there are some nice 'over time' damaging effects that you might find okay since you'll be running around in melee.  Anti Field might even be usable, pinning it to a back rank guy, and then positioning yourself so w/ever you fight is eating that at the same time.

Since you probably don't want to be restarting, I'd look at making sure you have someone that can Confounding Blind (Rogue), and Persistent Distractions (Eder makes a Great Swashbuckler tank) for big fights, is a great way to get everything to land, especially without maxed Perception.

[Climhazzard]

My take on transcendent...  https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/100718-class-build-the-transcendent/ Scepter offhand, fist mainhand, run around smacking enemies with soul annihilation and charms.  Shattered Pillar would be fine too but you'd have to drop the scepter to generate wounds.

 

Commenting on what you have so far..  Perception is my god stat for this build, in order to make sure stuff like whisper of treason hits.  I generally go Nalpazca then boost the other stats with drugs.  You can do the same with Shattered Pillar though.  I don't particularly care for mind wave, prefer Whisper of treason for my level 1 cipher pick.

 

After that it's something like...

 

Cipher:  Whisper of treason, Draining whip, Phantom foes, Secret Horrors, Hammering thoughts, Pain block, Mind lance (for ranged interrupts),  Borrowed Instincts, Ring leader, Disintegrate, Amplified wave (I get enervating blows before these last 2), The empty soul, Echoing Horror

 

Monk:  Lightning strikes, Force of anguish, Clarity of/Enlightened agony, Long strike, Raised Torment, Thunderous blows, Turning wheel, Rooting pain, Flagellant's path, Enervating blows (helps all your fortitude targeting attacks hit including Disintegrate)

 

General:  Two weapon style

 

I probably missed a few, and obviously you have to make some choices, you can't get them all.  Like should you take force of anguish or mind lance for interrupts?  Mind lance is ranged and will most likely have a better chance to hit since fortitude is often the highest enemy defense and you can boost will attack accuracy with The empty soul, but Force of anguish will have less recovery and uses a different resource, plus I think it interrupts on graze.   Dance of death probably isn't very useful on a melee character, but would be a fine pick for my transcendent build which relies on the scepter quite a bit.

 

If you're dying every other fight your party comp needs some work.  Though I can say this is also why I prefer the scepter version so I can hang back at the start of the fight.  In general approach battles from stealth and have your tank unstealth first, then have your spellcasters start their support or CC spells from stealth.  Also a good time to use whisper of treason.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Climhazzard

[dunehunter]

 

I have a feeling that Streetfighter/Shattered Pillar will outdps a Soulblade/Shattered Pillar due to:

.....

And Berserker/Shattered Pillar will likely out-dps SB/SP too, so long as there are at least 2 close enemies in the encounter.

And Berserker/Streetfighter will probably out-dps both. Not that it's a helpful advice though, as OP asked advice for his particular combo.

 

Thus said, I want to give my opinion on Monks in general. Honestly, I don't know why everybody is crazy about Monks. Sure, there are some nifty abilities at higher levels, but right at start they are pretty boring - no Full attack abilities, except for Stunning punch, which becomes renewable on crit at high levels. Knockdown attack and AoE kick, which stagger (and later Stuns) enemies in cone, both Primary attack, so no synergy with dual wield. Fire lash and Int boost are good, but you either have them or use your abilities, so do. Rooting pain is interesting, but I'm not sure it's such gamechanger.

 

I tried to start with Monk at 1.0 version, but it was a bit underwhelming due to lack of abilities, so I started trying other classes. Maybe my expectations were too high, maybe I expected to combo special moves or something, but auto-attacking with bare fists almost all the time and general squishiness left me unimpressed.

 

I recently made a pure monk adventurer (14 lvl) and tried to use in my party. Kicks, stuns and buffs surelly made it more entertaining, but performance wise it was still not as good as my Marauder. No special effects from weapons, no crazy stacking speed buffs (frenzy + bloodlust), no fancy combat teleport for repositioning (though Flaggelant path is pretty nice). Extra stuff on crits and renewable full-attack with stunning fist are good, but without Berserker crazy hit-to-crit conversion it is unreliable in tough fights.

 

Only thing that I really like about monk is renewable resource - Wounds, on other hand almost all really cool abilities work on Mortification, so you run out of it pretty fast. Oh, and extra range on melee attacks - this is somewhat unique.

 

I probably playing Monk wrong way or something, but it wasn't that fun at earlier stages and on quick test wasn't mindblowing at midgame.

Why assumeing primary attack has no synergy with dual wielding? You recover faster and can use it more frequently. And why can’t I use abilities when I have INT and fire lash at same time? Monks have two pools.

[Haplok]

+5 Might (15 with helwalker), +2 Penetration, +12 ACC, +10 Int, 45% leash

 

 

thats HUGE in statik bonuses, every activatable ability is instant cast an can simply be scripted. Multiclassed all these bonuses as pretty much for the entire fight from lvl 10 onwards.

 

 

+12 ACC? Not on a frontliner, no. That's one of the biggest weaknesses of the Monk IMO. No accuracy boosts (unless he can avoid being hit).

Plus it's max 40% Lash now, after the Monk Mega-Nerf. Only 15% before level 16 for multiclass characters.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Haplok

[grasida]

There is:

- Soul Annihilation which deals 10 + focus/4 afaik in v1.1.0

- Bitting Whip (+30% additive damage bonus) or Draining Whip (+20% additive damage bonus, +100% focus gain)

- Hammering Thoughts (+1 penetration with weapons)

 

So bassically SB gives you +1 pen and:

- +30% additive damage bonus plus ~total_damage/8 if taken Bitting Whip, or

- +20% additive damage bonus plus ~total_damage/4 if taken Draining Whip

 

 

I expect you're right that a streetfighter would outdamage a soulblade. Honestly, it should, even if I also think soul annihilation was hit a little too hard in 1.1. But here you're describing the amount of damage a PL 1 character with 10 might would do with soul annihilation. SA also scales with might and power level (though the damage reported in the tooltip before using the skill, the damage reported in the combat log after using the skill and the damage predicted by the formula never seem to be exactly the same). For most characters soul whip will do a lot more than what you describe.

 

What's more, the damage of the basic melee swing is also boosted multiplicatively by power level. I tested with a CL 20 single class soulblade with 100 alchemy and potions of ascension and was hitting for over 50 damage on the base hit with a plain rapier. Whether this works out to an advantage over other classes depends on how often you are using their martial abilities, since those also benefit from power level, but this likely benefits a soul blade, and especially a soul blade / shattered pillar more than anyone else.

 

I'm going to attempt mathematics, which might not work out well for me, but assuming you took draining whip, SA is improving the damage of every other attack by roughly (roughly is an important word, since the numbers between the tooltip, combat log and formula results don't match up):

 

normal melee damage * power level bonus, probably 1.05 per level past PL 1 = physical damage

10 * (strength bonus + power level bonus) + normal melee damage/4 * (strength bonus + power level bonus) = raw damage

 

To give a concrete example, for a level 13 transcendent (13 is arbitrarily chosen to represent the "mid game") using lightning strikes with 25 might and using fists, soul whip's damage is multiplied by 1.65 and the base melee attack is multiplied by 1.2. Assuming no other bonuses and you're generating damage through normal attacks, you deal

 

16.5(average base fist damage)*2(1.2+.35+.45)*1.15(lightning strikes)*1.2(power level) = 45.45 crush

10(base soul annihilation damage)*1.65(1.45+.2) + (9.48 (standard attack damage=37.95 divided by 4) * 1.65) = 32.15 raw

 

Meaning soul annihilation roughly doubles the damage of every other hit, for about a 50% damage boost overall. It could go much higher with power level boosts and more might, for example if you go for a helwalker. That's still a good boost. It's almost certainly not as good as a streetfighter, but then the issue becomes more about whether cipher in general is ever worth it and whether soul blade is worth taking for a melee cipher. Cipher is a weird class, with brokenly powerful charms and a lot of underwhelming other powers, and soul annihilation feels like it was nerfed a little too hard, but I think the answer to both questions remains yes.

[CountGrishnackh]

 

+5 Might (15 with helwalker), +2 Penetration, +12 ACC, +10 Int, 45% leash

 

 

thats HUGE in statik bonuses, every activatable ability is instant cast an can simply be scripted. Multiclassed all these bonuses as pretty much for the entire fight from lvl 10 onwards.

 

 

+12 ACC? Not on a frontliner, no. That's one of the biggest weaknesses of the Monk IMO. No accuracy boosts (unless he can avoid being hit).

Plus it's max 40% Lash now, after the Monk Mega-Nerf. Only 15% before level 16 for multiclass characters.

melee doesnt really equal frontliner. if the monk is supposed to tank yes, then the ability is straight useless. if hes a melee damagedealer with dedicated primary tank(s) around its permaactive once u get dance of death

[Haplok]

Even with dedicated tanks I get targeted anyway. Unless using a reach weapon in a chokepoint (without ranged enemies and casters), but that's hardly the standard.

[CountGrishnackh]

get hit by initial ranged barrage - activate ability - holds easily 20 seconds before you get hit third time depending on how much crowd control your party uses. at that point most fights are cleanup, if not activate again.

sure, its easier with ranged, but taking 3 hits even as melee can take quite some time