The Wheel.. did I miss something? (Ending spoilers)

[the streaker]

- broken [The Wheel] will require an effort to fix. And he was hoping that gods will reveal their true nature to the kith, and they will all cooperate. Because the alternative is death to all living, gods included.

 

Eothas keeps talking about revealing the gods' true nature, but he hasn't really done any of that, has he? Destroying the wheel won't prove to anyone what the gods really are, nor will the gods be compelled to reveal their true nature in order to get kith to cooperate. If anything, the gods will most likely continue being themselves and steer kith towards rebuilding the wheel the way the Engwithans wanted it. The only way this would have made sense would be if Eothas personally marched to every part of Eora and shouted out "the gods aren't real!"

[Tarlonniel]

And the Watcher coming along to bear witness and open Ukaizo was Berath's (and the Watcher's) doing, not Eothas's. Without it, all anyone would've known was that a big statue stomped across the Deadfire, killing people and making the Readcerans a little more crazy than usual, then vanished into Ondra's Mortar and was never seen again. Any more information than that would have to come from the other gods - and who knows what they would say.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tarlonniel

[MaxQuest]

Eothas keeps talking about revealing the gods' true nature, but he hasn't really done any of that, has he?

His first plan involved avataring the Waidwen and telling people the truth.

After it didn't prove itself as effective strategy, he switched to plan B and marched to Ukaizo.

 

Destroying the wheel won't prove to anyone what the gods really are, nor will the gods be compelled to reveal their true nature in order to get kith to cooperate.

Destroying the Wheel makes it unfixable. That's what Rymrgand wanted.

Souls no longer can go from In Between to The Beyond and get reborn.

 

If anything, the gods will most likely continue being themselves and steer kith towards rebuilding the wheel the way the Engwithans wanted it. The only way this would have made sense would be if Eothas personally marched to every part of Eora and shouted out "the gods aren't real!"

If the Wheel was broken (not destroyed), it can be fixed. But in order to restore it to the state how Engwithans made it, would require gods to provide a fine blueprint to kith animancers. I suppose those soon would notice that the scheme involves a soul-tax for the gods to feed on, and that will rise questions.

 

On the other hand through, do agree, that if the gods find a way to incorporate their agents into the rebuilders-team, or simply intimidate the builders, there is a decent chance that they will rebuild the Wheel and restore things to work just as Engwithans did, without revealing any sensitive info about themselves.

 

P.S. I have a feeling that Eothas's plan was quite idealistic, rather than well-thought.

Edited June 21, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Tarlonniel]

Or the gods can just kill off the people who rebuilt the Wheel for them. It's not like there's no precedent for that.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Tarlonniel

[house2fly]

I don't like the reveal that Eothas invaded the Dyrwood to expose the Engwithan machines and the truth about the gods. It makes it just a dumb coincidence that he did that right as Thaos was planning to use those same machines to empower Woedica. I much preferred Durance's speculation that he invaded to stop the Hollowborn from happening. That would also neatly answer what Waidwen said to Eder's brother to convince him to switch sides. But whatever

[Daggerknight]

I don't like the reveal that Eothas invaded the Dyrwood to expose the Engwithan machines and the truth about the gods. It makes it just a dumb coincidence that he did that right as Thaos was planning to use those same machines to empower Woedica. I much preferred Durance's speculation that he invaded to stop the Hollowborn from happening. That would also neatly answer what Waidwen said to Eder's brother to convince him to switch sides. But whatever

 

It may well be part of it though. It's entirely possible that Woedica's schemes (via Thaos) were the last straw that convinced Eothas to put an end to the entire charade. I mean, seeing one of his fellow gods do such awful things in the name of power could certainly have made him feel incredibly disillusioned with the status-quo, resulting in both his attempt to thwart her, as well as ensure that something of the like never happens again. 

[Gregorovitch]

Alright, so big man Eothas destroys the machine that keeps the reincarnation process going. Why is this such a big deal? If the Wheel was constructed by Kith at one time, there must be a "natural" process that predates it. The Wheels only function seems to be to siphon off  a bit of soul energy for every cycle, keeping the gods alive.

 

However, the game multiple times avoids this rather obvious solution to the problem, so what gives? Did I miss something? Is the Wheel truly ancient, predating the Engwithans? In the quest where you grab Bekarna's research there are hints to the stars being a source of arcane energy, and the Circle seem to see some great significance in this.

 

No you haven't missed something - just that every single NPC and companion in the game missed something. Namely, the exact same question you have asked. Which is a major problem with the Deadfire narrative IMO. It also creates the disconnection between the Eothsas quest line and Nekaetaka/faction quest lines.

 

The problem is not that nobody has the answer. The problem is they don't ask the question. At all.

 

If a bunch of aliens landed in the Sahara desert, for example, several things would happen with almost 100% certainty:

 

1. People would be freaking out right, left and centre

2. The only thing people would be talking about is whether they were friendly or not

3. Normal day-to-day life and concerns would be forgotten

4. All political leaders would be busy pretending they were in the process of establishing whether they were friendly or not and that they had a matters fully in hand if they weren't.

 

Eothas arrival in the Deadfire, once his purpose becomes suspected, is exactly analagous to this situation, and would have the same results. It is simply not credible that not one person in the game asks this question, including the Watcher, as it is the first and most obvious question to ask. And once it is asked by anyone everyone else is going to be like "OMG, good point. How do we find out?". Becasue everything, life itself no less, is dependant on the answer.

 

I mean even the bloody pirates are going twig that the extinction of the kith is going to mean a significant economic downturn, bad for buisiness and all. Even they are going to want an answer to it before taking any sort of position on what to do. Plundering Ukaizo is not going to be uppermost in their, or anybody else's, mind.

 

IMO this is a massive hole in the Deadfire narrative. Almost a fatal one. One wonders what Obsidian were thinking.

[Daggerknight]

 

Alright, so big man Eothas destroys the machine that keeps the reincarnation process going. Why is this such a big deal? If the Wheel was constructed by Kith at one time, there must be a "natural" process that predates it. The Wheels only function seems to be to siphon off  a bit of soul energy for every cycle, keeping the gods alive.

 

However, the game multiple times avoids this rather obvious solution to the problem, so what gives? Did I miss something? Is the Wheel truly ancient, predating the Engwithans? In the quest where you grab Bekarna's research there are hints to the stars being a source of arcane energy, and the Circle seem to see some great significance in this.

 

No you haven't missed something - just that every single NPC and companion in the game missed something. Namely, the exact same question you have asked. Which is a major problem with the Deadfire narrative IMO. It also creates the disconnection between the Eothsas quest line and Nekaetaka/faction quest lines.

 

The problem is not that nobody has the answer. The problem is they don't ask the question. At all.

 

If a bunch of aliens landed in the Sahara desert, for example, several things would happen with almost 100% certainty:

 

1. People would be freaking out right, left and centre

2. The only thing people would be talking about is whether they were friendly or not

3. Normal day-to-day life and concerns would be forgotten

4. All political leaders would be busy pretending they were in the process of establishing whether they were friendly or not and that they had a matters fully in hand if they weren't.

 

Eothas arrival in the Deadfire, once his purpose becomes suspected, is exactly analagous to this situation, and would have the same results. It is simply not credible that not one person in the game asks this question, including the Watcher, as it is the first and most obvious question to ask. And once it is asked by anyone everyone else is going to be like "OMG, good point. How do we find out?". Becasue everything, life itself no less, is dependant on the answer.

 

I mean even the bloody pirates are going twig that the extinction of the kith is going to mean a significant economic downturn, bad for buisiness and all. Even they are going to want an answer to it before taking any sort of position on what to do. Plundering Ukaizo is not going to be uppermost in their, or anybody else's, mind.

 

IMO this is a massive hole in the Deadfire narrative. Almost a fatal one. One wonders what Obsidian were thinking.

 

 

This jumped out at me too. Even when everyone in the factions finally accepted that there was a giant god made of Adra stomping around, possibly to destroy the cycle of life itself, they STILL wanted to talk about conquest, economics and rivalries. I sort of expected that at least SOME of them would put aside their problems and just band together. Hell, even if they were planning to back stab one another later, it would have made sense. In fact, I'd have been totally down for the final faction decision boiling down to who you'd help pull the rug from everyone else's feet AFTER THE END OF DAYS OF AVERTED. 

 

Now, I suppose there is an argument to made for the fact that the factions are not briefed on exactly -what- Eothas intends to do once he reaches Ukaizu, but it's pretty clear that;

 

A) Whatever it is, it's bad

B) Even if he's just going there to have a nap, he's bashing up the entire archipelago on the way, and probably going to break all the shiny things in the ancient city while he's at it. 

 

Principi pirates thinking "MONEY!" is fair enough, being pirates and all. The nations of the Huana, Valian Republics and Rauitie (spelling?) ? Not so much. I wouldn't say it ruined an otherwise great game for me, but yeah, this was definitely more along the lines of an Elder Scrolls plot than what I was expecting after POE 1. (End result wise, not writing quality, which was excellent).