Lash damage is still not calculated correctly

[dunehunter]

So the lash damage is still not correct. For example if I did 118 damage with sword and have 35% lash, I shall do 41 fire damage, but actually I did 51. I've take overpenetration into consideration so don't bother ask.

[adragojlovic]

Greetings,

 

Thank you for taking the time and notifying us regarding this issue I do believe this to be fixed in the most recent patch 1.1. Should you have any additional questions let us know!

 

Cheers.

[Cdiaz]

Hi dunehunter,

 

Would you be able to confirm if this is indeed resolved in patch 1.1.1? I want to make sure we are getting everything accounted for that is in.

 

Please feel free to reply here or PM me!

 

Best,

 

-Caleb

[kmbogd]

Hi Cdiaz,

 

As of 1.1.1 lashes are still not calculated correctly as the formula is implemented in a way that I do not believe is the one intended: the problem stems from the fact that over/under penetration modifier is applied multiplicatively in the lash dmg formula. This is very different from  the standard dmg formula where the over/under penetration modifier is applied additively (like all dmg modifiers). If you want I could provide a more technical answer with formulae and so on but it will be quite a long post.

Edited June 23, 2018 by kmbogd

[Cdiaz]

kmbogd you hero.

 

Long post me up, but only if its not too much trouble for ya! I have enough information to go off of to get it in front of QA to bug and they can look into that stuff, but any help is appreciated!

 

Thanks!

 

-Caleb

[dunehunter]

@cdiaz over penetration bonus was a separate multiplier for lash damage before 1.1.

Edited June 24, 2018 by dunehunter

[kmbogd]

@Cdiaz

 

Let's consider the following example:

 

 

As you can see in the top left corner, my target has 2 particularly high AR's: for crush dmg and for burn dmg. Thus, I will use a standard flail to illustrate what I'm referring to. The standard flail does only crush dmg with penetration 7 which is lower than the target's 9 crush AR. Being with 2 levels below the AR, the standard attack will have an average under-penetration dmg modifier (-50%).

 

Now due to a known bug (which is not the point of this particular discussion), the standard flail will inherit a 20% fire lash from Modwyr which is the sword used in the other hand (character is dual wielding). The lash attack will have the same penetration as the standard attack, which in our case is 7. This is lower than the target's 11 fire AR by 4 levels, hence the lash attack will have a severe under-penetration dmg modifier (-75%).

 

Now I will show how one under-penetration modifier is treated in a additive manner (like all the other dmg modifiers) and the other is treated in a multiplicative manner (it its own separate formula component) by looking at the combat log information in the bottom right.

 

1. First let's see how we can derive the 7.7 crush dmg that results from our standard attack. As depicted in the combat log, we have just 3 dmg modifiers: the one from might (36% bonus), the one from Cruelty and Curious (3% bonus) and the one from under-penetration (50% malus). We need to transform these modifiers into steps. The bonus from might has a simple and intuitive step value which is the actual bonus: Step_Might=0.36. The same can be said for Step_CrueltyAndCurious=0.03. For the malus from under-penetration the step is not so intuitive, the formula is: 1-1/(1-malus). Thus, in our case we have : Step_UnderPenetration=1-1/(1-0.5)=1-1/0.5=1-2=-1. Now, since the sum of all affecting steps is negative, 0.36+0.03+(-1)=-0.61, the standard attack has the following dmg formula:

 

Rolled_Dmg/(1-Step_SUM), where Step_SUM is the sum of all steps (in our case Step_SUM=Step_Might+ Step_CrueltyAndCurious+Step_UnderPenetration). So, we have 12.5/(1-(-0.61))=12.5/1.61=7.76 crush dmg (displayed in the detailed info combat log as 7.7 and in the basic info combat log as 8 ).

 

As can be seen, in the standard attack case all the dmg modifiers are treated equally in an additive way in the same component of the dmg formula.

 

2. Now let's consider the lash attack. We don't have a graphical representation in the combat log of the modifiers in this secondary attack but they are the 36% bonus from might, 3% bonus from Cruelty and Curious and the 75% malus from severe under-penetration. The problem here is that the under-penetration modifier is not treated like all the other modifiers, as was the case in the standard attack, but it's treated in its own component. Thus our Step_SUM consists of only Step_Might=0.36 and Step_CrueltyAndCurious=0.03. Since this Step_SUM is positive, the formula for lash damage is:

 

Rolled_Dmg*Lash_Percent*(1+Step_SUM)*UnderPenetration_Component.

 

In order to compute the UnderPenetration_Component we have to determine its step first: Step_UnderPenetration=1-1/(1-0.75)=1-1/0.25=1-4=-3. Since this is negative the UnderPenetration_Component=1/(1-Step_UnderPenetration)=1/(1-(-3))=1/4=0.25.

 

Therefore, we have Lash_Dmg=12.5*0.2*(1+0.36+0.03)*0.25=0.87 fire dmg (displayed int the combat log as 0.9).

 

As can be seen, in the lash attack the under-penetration dmg modifier is treated separately from the other dmg modifiers, which is not in line with what happens in the standard attack.

 

 

Now why do I say this is most likely not intended? We need to look back at the history of the damage formulae. In the earlier BackerBeta versions also the standard attack was having the  under penetration dmg modifier treated as a separate independent component. Actually even might itself was treated as separate component together with under penetration modifier and different from the rest of the dmg modifiers. Then, in the last version of the BackerBeta the standard attack formula was changed so that under penetration was moved together with all the other modifiers (only might modifier remained in its own separate component). Then at release version, the standard attack formula was changed yet again and also the might modifier got removed from its own component and moved together with all the other dmg modifiers. Thus, the trend in the standard attack formula was to remove independent components and to move all dmg modifiers together. It looks like the piece of code that implements lash attacks was not updated in accordance with this trend and so we still have that over/under penetration modifier is applied in its own component and not treated like the rest of dmg modifiers. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by kmbogd

[AndreaColombo]

Subbing.

[kmbogd]

Hi Cdiaz,

 

Any feedback on this, do we have any chance to get the formula unified in regards to penetration for both the normal attack and the lash attack? As of 3.0 nothing has changed.