I was helping assassination all along?!

[Aramintai]

 

Also, I may be wrong on this, but isn't Poko Kohara one of the few places that, apart from simply being a functional Adra pillar, still has active and functional computer equipment controlling the Adra pillar?

 

I'm not sure I trust the VTC with that.

That was also the main reason i destroyed the pillar: to me, it was either A) leave the pillar standing only to leave it for the vailians to experiment on, which seemed especially bad considering it already got corrupted without animancy experiments; or B) destroy it and all the souls in it, as well as removing one of the routes towards reincarnation (not a pleasant choice either) but at least making certain the adra pillar, and the souls that would end up passing through it, don't get corrupted or abused by the Vailians, as well-intended as their research may be.

 

It got corrupted because of Anaharu, not the Vailians.

 

Personally, I've no qualms about letting animancers experiment. Without experiments there will be no progress. If people gonna stay afraid of potential hazards of scientific research they will not accomplish anything. They won't understand how the world around them works, they won't invent any quality-of-life inventions and they certainly won't fix the damn broken Wheel. Sure, there will be failures but without them there won't be a success either. And not all animancers are mad scientists like some people would like to believe, there are also responsible ones. And I believe in what Giacolo said about them being able to self regulate themselves.

It's just like in the real world - you can't stop progress, sooner or later it will win the hearts and minds of all nay sayers.

[Katarack21]

 

 

Also, I may be wrong on this, but isn't Poko Kohara one of the few places that, apart from simply being a functional Adra pillar, still has active and functional computer equipment controlling the Adra pillar?

 

I'm not sure I trust the VTC with that.

That was also the main reason i destroyed the pillar: to me, it was either A) leave the pillar standing only to leave it for the vailians to experiment on, which seemed especially bad considering it already got corrupted without animancy experiments; or B) destroy it and all the souls in it, as well as removing one of the routes towards reincarnation (not a pleasant choice either) but at least making certain the adra pillar, and the souls that would end up passing through it, don't get corrupted or abused by the Vailians, as well-intended as their research may be.

 

It got corrupted because of Anaharu, not the Vailians.

 

Personally, I've no qualms about letting animancers experiment. Without experiments there will be no progress. If people gonna stay afraid of potential hazards of scientific research they will not accomplish anything. They won't understand how the world around them works, they won't invent any quality-of-life inventions and they certainly won't fix the damn broken Wheel. Sure, there will be failures but without them there won't be a success either. And not all animancers are mad scientists like some people would like to believe, there are also responsible ones. And I believe in what Giacolo said about them being able to self regulate themselves.

It's just like in the real world - you can't stop progress, sooner or later it will win the hearts and minds of all nay sayers.

 

Sure, that's totally accurate, and I support animancy. But letting the VTC animancers experiment on a functional Adra pillar is like letting Leonardo Da Vinci experiment with a nuclear reactor. It's not the animancy I oppose; it's the level of tech their playing around with while having no idea what they're doing.

[Aramintai]

Sure, that's totally accurate, and I support animancy. But letting the VTC animancers experiment on a functional Adra pillar is like letting Leonardo Da Vinci experiment with a nuclear reactor. It's not the animancy I oppose; it's the level of tech their playing around with while having no idea what they're doing.

Do you have any evidence they will **** it up? It's not the first adra pillar they're experimenting upon, you know, so they're not complete noobs at it and know the dangers.

Btw, I loved what they did in Neketaka - a teleportation invention? That one hell of a breakthrough! When they figure out the details in full, people will be able to travel instantly through adra to other continents, how cool is that?

[Katarack21]

 

Sure, that's totally accurate, and I support animancy. But letting the VTC animancers experiment on a functional Adra pillar is like letting Leonardo Da Vinci experiment with a nuclear reactor. It's not the animancy I oppose; it's the level of tech their playing around with while having no idea what they're doing.

Do you have any evidence they will **** it up? It's not the first adra pillar they're experimenting upon, you know, so they're not complete noobs at it and know the dangers.

Btw, I loved what they did in Neketaka - a teleportation invention? That one hell of a breakthrough! When they figure out the details in full, people will be able to travel instantly through adra to other continents, how cool is that?

 

They sent me to the Realm of Rymgrand on accident, who nearly killed me and threatened retribution if the experiments continued. I count that as a ****-up. It's also important to note that, again I could be wrong, but I believe the Poko Kohara adra pillar is the only one with a *functional Engwithan control system*. The one at the digsite did not have a control system, and on top of the Spire they just have a large chunk of Luminous Adra with a VTC-built control system attached to it.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Katarack21

[Aramintai]

They sent me to the Realm of Rymgrand on accident, who nearly killed me and threatened retribution if the experiments continued. 

It worked a second time (Pahowane) and third time (powderhouse) properly though. So, first a failure then success. And Rymargand can go to Hel - he's a hater of everything. Haters gonna hate...

 

 

It's also important to note that, again I could be wrong, but I believe the Poko Kohara adra pillar is the only one with a *functional Engwithan control system*. The one at the digsite did not have a control system, and on top of the Spire they just have a large chunk of Luminous Adra with a VTC-built control system attached to it.

So what? I imagine they'll be able to make even bigger breakthroughs with it. Besides, I think it's relevance will be greatly overshadowed by what the Vailians will be able to find at Ukaizo. And judging by the ending slides future's looking bright on that front.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[morhilane]

 

Personally, I didn't catch up that I was helping with assassinations until ending slides. But playing now I just can't help but see how shifty Maia is about this, she definitely knows where all of this is leading, and I just can't trust her anymore. I don't like companions using me for doing their dirty work while keeping me in the dark.

 

This. Maia will stay on the ship, and I am going to sabotage RDC as much as I can. At least Pallegina is honest about Vailians.

But also I found it strange that the only two options in a later dialogue were to either "not talk about it" or discuss how to better do her job. Unless I am missing something. 

You can't outright tell her this is wrong, what RDC is doing is wrong. You can either not talk about it at all or support RDC and advise on how to better break the Huana for conquest.

 

And the chieftien is letting his peoples die of hunger...counting on trade and handing over territory...for the sake of tradition . 

 

No thats not it. He is not giving territory, he is only inviting Vailian cooperation to establish a trading post and to help their settlement because he is no longer adhering to tradition. The one who wants to stick to tradition in the Priest lady, and RDC are the ones who take land from Huana. Vailians are actually less invasive, they work in cooperation, not through submission.

Thing is Tikawara can't survive without trading post because of how scarce the natural resources are. Kokti grows badly there and from what I remember there are troubles with the fish as well. An alliance with VTC is that of necessity and survival, not because the chieftain is stupid.

 

 

I could tell Maia that the assassinations were wrong in her post quest convo. The option wasn't a straight up "it's wrong" yelling thing though. It was closer to "Rauatai is better than this" option.

 

As for the Vailian not conquering lands. I think someone missed a side quest (well task). There is an Huana who wants his tribe contract with the Vailian to be changed because the current terms are that once their chieftain dies the VTC owns the entire island they live on. They steal via bureaucratic, plunder all the resources and then leave.

[Tarlonniel]

According to Eothas, modern animancers are already very close to the skill level of the ancient Engwithans (not sure if I buy that, but it's what he said), so giving them access to the machine isn't throwing them into something too far beyond their present understanding or capabilities.

 

My favorite ending is VTC + Castol + asking Eothas to help people find inspiration in the future. It sounds like such an exciting world to live in.

[Aramintai]

My favorite ending is VTC + Castol + asking Eothas to help people find inspiration in the future. It sounds like such an exciting world to live in.

Hey, that's exactly my favorite ending too!

[Katarack21]

 

 

Personally, I didn't catch up that I was helping with assassinations until ending slides. But playing now I just can't help but see how shifty Maia is about this, she definitely knows where all of this is leading, and I just can't trust her anymore. I don't like companions using me for doing their dirty work while keeping me in the dark.

 

This. Maia will stay on the ship, and I am going to sabotage RDC as much as I can. At least Pallegina is honest about Vailians.

But also I found it strange that the only two options in a later dialogue were to either "not talk about it" or discuss how to better do her job. Unless I am missing something. 

You can't outright tell her this is wrong, what RDC is doing is wrong. You can either not talk about it at all or support RDC and advise on how to better break the Huana for conquest.

 

And the chieftien is letting his peoples die of hunger...counting on trade and handing over territory...for the sake of tradition . 

 

No thats not it. He is not giving territory, he is only inviting Vailian cooperation to establish a trading post and to help their settlement because he is no longer adhering to tradition. The one who wants to stick to tradition in the Priest lady, and RDC are the ones who take land from Huana. Vailians are actually less invasive, they work in cooperation, not through submission.

Thing is Tikawara can't survive without trading post because of how scarce the natural resources are. Kokti grows badly there and from what I remember there are troubles with the fish as well. An alliance with VTC is that of necessity and survival, not because the chieftain is stupid.

 

 

I could tell Maia that the assassinations were wrong in her post quest convo. The option wasn't a straight up "it's wrong" yelling thing though. It was closer to "Rauatai is better than this" option.

 

As for the Vailian not conquering lands. I think someone missed a side quest (well task). There is an Huana who wants his tribe contract with the Vailian to be changed because the current terms are that once their chieftain dies the VTC owns the entire island they live on. They steal via bureaucratic, plunder all the resources and then leave.

 

"Digging up the Deadfire with both hands and shipping the riches overseas."

Edited May 23, 2018 by Katarack21

[oilnwater]

Not sure that I would have much confidence in what director Castol of VTC has in developing the teleportation for the betterment of all people, nor the uplifting of populations as a whole.  And as for the hopes of such an outcome, look what happened last time:  a dozen or so Enguithans became our flawed gods while their civilization vanished.

[Katarack21]

Not sure that I would have much confidence in what director Castol of VTC has in developing the teleportation for the betterment of all people, nor the uplifting of populations as a whole.  And as for the hopes of such an outcome, look what happened last time:  a dozen or so Enguithans became our flawed gods while their civilization vanished.

Well in defense of the modern setting of Eora, if the God's are incarnated Engwithan philosophies then the Engwithans were clearly a bunch of ****s.

[hippofant]

We've gone a little off-topic now, but in my game, Maia straight up told me what her mission was, so I'm a little confused as to all the people who were surprised that those were assassinations at the end of the game. She described her mission to me, explained why she did it, I asked her if the other two missives were also assassinations and she said she didn't know.

 

 

Maaaybe it's because I have high Insight? Also in romance.

[luciffer]

VTC and RDC are just economy aspect and military aspect of East india company respectively. They both are imperialist aggressors if in our world.

 

And back to this topic, I feel this quest is poorly scripted. Can't we just open those missives and tell Maia what we think about that? then go for a influence check. That is a more logical way to me.

[Aramintai]

We've gone a little off-topic now, but in my game, Maia straight up told me what her mission was, so I'm a little confused as to all the people who were surprised that those were assassinations at the end of the game. She described her mission to me, explained why she did it, I asked her if the other two missives were also assassinations and she said she didn't know.

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already. And she knew what those missives most likely were about, that's why she was so shifty about it. It's not her first day in the army or assassination mission, apparently. So yeah, do whatever you want to bed her, but it's obvious she puts duty above all else, like morals or the Watcher.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[Aramintai]

And back to this topic, I feel this quest is poorly scripted. Can't we just open those missives and tell Maia what we think about that? then go for a influence check. That is a more logical way to me.

Yea, it's too bad there's no option to open them, could have spared the Watcher a lot of headache later.

[Aramintai]

Not sure that I would have much confidence in what director Castol of VTC has in developing the teleportation for the betterment of all people, nor the uplifting of populations as a whole.  And as for the hopes of such an outcome, look what happened last time:  a dozen or so Enguithans became our flawed gods while their civilization vanished.

Are you one of Ondra's supporters then? Better to let the past be forgotten and for kith to continue living under a rock or somthing?

If anything, with Eothas's help they may as well bring a new golden age for the kith and dismantle the gods all together. 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[rheingold]

I though the VTC governor and Huana leader at Fort Maje were some of the better people in Deadfire. Not perfect, but they had found a way to work together which says a lot.

It's also clear that there are no really good options as a whole for deadfire. Huana have a terrible caste system, VTC care only about money and actively condone slavery. Ruatai are fairly militaristic and only interested in conquering deadfire. And if our history is anything to go by, that never works out well for the conquered.

But there are some people or areas where people seem to be pulling together. Fort Maje is one, the island where Serafen finds his chum - forgot the name. But if you go into the barracks you find Huana of all castes trying to mingle.

So I kinda take the view that since they all have major flaws,  I may as well support the Huana - it's their land after all. And hopefully work on making them more progressive.

 

Re Maia - well her quest pisses me off. She clearly knew what was in the orders and lied to the watcher. And effectively made him/her an accomplice to murder without even the decency of letting him know. If she had been more forthcoming that would be different of course.

 

And in most cases, the bounties are not morally justified or legal. It's one thing to take a slavery or pirate ship which could be seen as a good deed, but many of the bounties are for either traders or members of other factions. There is no legal basis for that - that's why they hire privateers. If it was sanctioned or somehow legal, the factions would use their own resources...

[morhilane]

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already.

 

She didn't know they were assassinations requests until after the fact. She didn't know what was in her missive until she opened it after she left the party and never opened the other missives. How could she tell you beforehand? Thinking the other two missives were assassinations after the fact is speculation from the Watcher and her too. She's shifty because the missives are part of her spy work and she hates being a spy. Really, what kind of spy goes everywhere telling everyone they are a spy?

 

Also, I think some people are forgetting real fast that Maia is told to join you by the RDC when you are sent to investigate one of their port. She's not some subordinate you hired or an old friend who is supposed to tell you everything.

 

Ruatai are fairly militaristic and only interested in conquering deadfire. And if our history is anything to go by, that never works out well for the conquered.

And yet, the games has a few "conquered people" in it and I have yet to find one that hates being under them.

 

Rauatai main cause for their militaristic way of life is Ondra's Mortar. If you side with them, they control Ukaizo and stop the storms ravaging their homeland. That cause a cultural shift away from warfare into fixing the reincarnation cycle. They still take over the Deadfire, but that is the surest way to make sure nobody takes Ukaizo from them and start back Ondra's Mortar.

[Tarlonniel]

I may as well support the Huana - it's their land after all. And hopefully work on making them more progressive.

Unfortunately, there's no way in-game to push the queen in that direction, and unlike the other factions, there's no one you can support in her stead. There's nothing in the Huana ending slides about a movement to address the major problems with their society. I guess you can hope they'll fix it eventually, but you can hope the same thing about the other factions.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Tarlonniel

[Aramintai]

 

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already.

 

She didn't know they were assassinations requests until after the fact. She didn't know what was in her missive until she opened it after she left the party and never opened the other missives. How could she tell you beforehand? Thinking the other two missives were assassinations after the fact is speculation from the Watcher and her too. She's shifty because the missives are part of her spy work and she hates being a spy. Really, what kind of spy goes everywhere telling everyone they are a spy?

Please    Don't be so naive. But whatever, personally, I wouldn't have minded her being a spy so much if she did just that, quietly spying on other factions, gathering info. But no, she had to drag the Watcher into this as well, fully expecting him/her to help even though as you say she's not a friend or comrade. I guess her joining the party somehow automatically supposes the Watcher supports her faction, even if that is not true.

 

 

And yet, the games has a few "conquered people" in it and I have yet to find one that hates being under them.

 

Rauatai main cause for their militaristic way of life is Ondra's Mortar. If you side with them, they control Ukaizo and stop the storms ravaging their homeland. That cause a cultural shift away from warfare into fixing the reincarnation cycle. They still take over the Deadfire, but that is the surest way to make sure nobody takes Ukaizo from them and start back Ondra's Mortar.

Rauatai this, Rauatai that.    Everything for Rauatai - lands, resources, assimilated natives...Just as bad as the other factions, or even worse. Personally, I'd choose them only if my protag was from Rauatai - for Motherland! and all that crap...

Edited May 23, 2018 by Aramintai

[morhilane]

 

 

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already.

 

She didn't know they were assassinations requests until after the fact. She didn't know what was in her missive until she opened it after she left the party and never opened the other missives. How could she tell you beforehand? Thinking the other two missives were assassinations after the fact is speculation from the Watcher and her too. She's shifty because the missives are part of her spy work and she hates being a spy. Really, what kind of spy goes everywhere telling everyone they are a spy?

Please    Don't be so naive. But whatever, personally, I wouldn't have minded her being a spy so much if she did just that, quietly spying on other factions, gathering info. But no, she had to drag the Watcher into this as well, fully expecting him/her to help even though as you say she's not a friend or comrade. I guess her joining the party somehow automatically supposes the Watcher supports her faction, even if that is not true.

 

 

 

You call me naive because I choose to believe her when she tells me she didn't know until she opened her missives which she's done after she left the party? Maia sucks at hiding what she feels and thinks which results in saying inappropriate things or super awkwardness all over quests and tasks. She's too honest with her feelings to be a liar.

 

and people are overblowing the "dragged the Watcher". She ask you to play postman. It was clear as day that those people were also spy and you don't have to help them with their other problems. Hell, if you hate Rauatai so much, why are you keeping one of their spy in your party?

[mishona]

That idiot on Maje or whatever is the name of that 1st island..I'm pretty sure he is a sleazy . And you don't gain an outpost to look after in the Valliant by doing good . 

 

 

Actually he did. He was put in such an out of the way, inconsequential post because he wasn't playing nice with people who ha no scruples with more underhanded means.

[Taevyr]

 

 

 

She only straight up tells about being a spy and only confesses about assassination when the Watcher pressures her after the deals were done already.

 

She didn't know they were assassinations requests until after the fact. She didn't know what was in her missive until she opened it after she left the party and never opened the other missives. How could she tell you beforehand? Thinking the other two missives were assassinations after the fact is speculation from the Watcher and her too. She's shifty because the missives are part of her spy work and she hates being a spy. Really, what kind of spy goes everywhere telling everyone they are a spy?

Please    Don't be so naive. But whatever, personally, I wouldn't have minded her being a spy so much if she did just that, quietly spying on other factions, gathering info. But no, she had to drag the Watcher into this as well, fully expecting him/her to help even though as you say she's not a friend or comrade. I guess her joining the party somehow automatically supposes the Watcher supports her faction, even if that is not true.

 

 

 

You call me naive because I choose to believe her when she tells me she didn't know until she opened her missives which she's done after she left the party? Maia sucks at hiding what she feels and thinks which results in saying inappropriate things or super awkwardness all over quests and tasks. She's too honest with her feelings to be a liar.

 

and people are overblowing the "dragged the Watcher". She ask you to play postman. It was clear as day that those people were also spy and you don't have to help them with their other problems. Hell, if you hate Rauatai so much, why are you keeping one of their spy in your party?

 

^this

 

I really wonder how anyone thought those missives wouldn't involve some scheming of a sort, especially since Maia mentions them coming from Atsura, who's the most manipulative guy in the game. No offense, but how did your way of thinking go?

 

"Oh, Maia who literally jests 'You probably wonder how rauatai placed a spy in your team' the moment after you recruit her, is asking me to help her deliver some missives from the extremely shady Rauatai "diplomat". She doesn't know nor even wants to know the content, says they're important to Rauatai interests, and we have to deliver them to rauataians in notable non-rauatai settlements over the deadfire. THIS SURE SEEMS WHOLESOME AND TRUSTWORTHY TO ME!"

 

Not to mention she's obviously uncomfortable with it as well. The way i read it, Maia's a "my country, right or wrong" type when you meet her: She'll do what needs to be done to help her country, but she's not going to act like it's the right thing, or even that her country's necessarily right in doing things that way. Hell, it's literally the main discussion behind her companion quest.

 

As for the factions:

The Huana deserve their homeland, but will end up going full traditional isolationism with it, Caste sytem and all. The Vailians deserve a chance to further the scientific progress of the world, but bring a whole new meaning to the phrase "soul-crushing colonialism". The Rauataians need resources to sustain their homeland and deserve a chance at ending the storms of Rauatai, but would take over the deadfire and its cultures to do so, either through assasination or through direct conquest if necessary.

 

The pirates are pirates, not much more to be said. At least they're straightforward about it.

 

They all have worthy goals, and are all willing to do what it takes to reach them. We wouldn't be having this discussion otherwise.

[Taevyr]

 

Sure, that's totally accurate, and I support animancy. But letting the VTC animancers experiment on a functional Adra pillar is like letting Leonardo Da Vinci experiment with a nuclear reactor. It's not the animancy I oppose; it's the level of tech their playing around with while having no idea what they're doing.

Do you have any evidence they will **** it up? It's not the first adra pillar they're experimenting upon, you know, so they're not complete noobs at it and know the dangers.

Btw, I loved what they did in Neketaka - a teleportation invention? That one hell of a breakthrough! When they figure out the details in full, people will be able to travel instantly through adra to other continents, how cool is that?

 

I love the idea of animancy and it's possibilities, but i get pretty squeamish when I find out the trading company behind it is grinding up the same pillars used to transport souls to the wheel and reincarnation, and selling the dust as a very effective revitalizer. Not to mention they do so while, and i quote the wiki, " Animancers are not sure of the ultimate effect of luminous adra on the souls or the impact of its use on reincarnation and Berath's Wheel. That doesn't stop kith from consuming it in ever growing quantities, both in liquid form and smoked in tobacco and svef pipes".

 

Animancy probably holds more possibilities than any real-world science, and the animancers in Neketaka were doing ground-breaking stuff as evidenced by the teleportation. They're responsible enough to see the dangers, but get ignored by the company: quoting the wiki "Although animancers insist on caution and restraint, the dangers of luminous adra are commonly ignored, even as early adopters begin to exhibit strange behavior commonly ascribed to elder Awakened or disturbed Watchers: Conversing with ghosts, detachment from reality, and regression into past lives. The dominant theory posits that by ingesting adra, recreational users are experiencing echoes of other people's lives or otherwise unwittingly entering the spirit world without the necessary bracing." They know the dangers, it's simply not profitable for the company to recognize them.

 

Take this example: the Poko Kohara pillar got corrupted by a Huana man who was extremely hateful and irrational towards the Vailians. Now imagine the Vailians come in, aren't as kind to the Huana as you hope they'll be, and those Huana souls end up passing through the very pillar they're now mining and experimenting on. To me, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[Taevyr]

It's not her first day in the army or assassination mission, apparently.

This is bull****. The whole conversation after she's fulfilled her mission is about how she DOESN'T want to take part in these kind of missions, nor ever performed an assassination before: something about not being the one to fire the first shot, and not wanting to kill people without knowing it will improve other people's lives or future. She IS extremely loyal to her homeland, but she clearly doesn't like what it's becoming in the Deadfire.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Taevyr