pi2repsion

Excuse me for introducing a moment of levity in these weighty discussions, but the issue of being overshadowed happened to trigger a fond memory from Mitchell & Webb: Angel Summoner & BMX Bandit: The feelings expressed by the BMX Bandit here are those that make class balance important in MMOs and Pen&Paper/Multiplayer RPGs, where players are represented by avatars that cooperate or compete against other avatars representing other human players. Single-player party based games? Not so much.

1) This sounds like a known bug in 2.01: Accuracy display in the character sheet is currently bugged. (This is listed as fixed in the 2.02 beta patch, but until then you'll just have to rely on the accuracy you see in the log; Fortunately, it is a purely cosmetic issue). 2) No bug is shown in your screenshot. The item you list is scale armour; Scale is DR7, Slash/Freeze 125%, Pierce 75%. The armour has been pierce-proofed (+3) and has no quality (+0); Hence it is DR 7 generic (7+0), DR 9 Slash/Freeze ((7+0)*1.25, rounded in display), DR 8 pierce ((7+0+3)*0.75, rounded in display) - which is exactly what your screenshot shows. More generally, if you observe anything you think is a bug, the proper place to report them is in the technical support forum, not the general discussions forum where you'll find instructions on how they like bugs reported and are assured that they'll be seen and vetted by a member of the development team.

I like your idea, but how about going one further, with no expansions but a PoE 3 etc... OR even better yet, a series of mutually independent games each telling their own story using the same engine, like SSI's old Gold Box games did, rather than trying to expand on existing storylines and changing a story that already works by bolting on DLC. (Yeah, right. Not going to happen. But a man can dream.)

Just out of interest, are you for some reason leaving your squishy PC in party slot #1, which is default? I haven't noticed any problems such as you mention while playing, and I suspect it may be because while I do use a custom formation while moving around, I rearrange the party's order of members such that the tanky ones are first in the party list and the squishy ones - such as a PC wizard - last.

I understand the business rationale for DLC and bite-sized content expansion that can be consumed in a few hours, but I cannot say I like it, or that I desire a game engine to be sequentially tweaked and the game rebalanced in steps after release, each enticing the player to pay up and play just a few more hours. But it is the business reality of today's market, and that's all there is to it. So I am perfectly fine with POE1 being over now and not ever seing tier 9 or 10 spells in the spellbook or seeing tier 6 invocations in POE1. I prefer full fledged new games to expansions every day of the week, and would have been more than happy not to have seen one for POE1. POE1 tells a decent story, has quite interesting companions, has a very decent combat system, has ample scope, and is all taken together, and after the first month's bugs were fixed, a great game. Why would I not be satisfied with that? And when it was to have one, I'd have been happier to get one larger than to get two smaller, regardless of whether they were billed as separate entities or part one and part two. As for POE2, I expect it to use much the same game engine, as it would be folly to redo everything from scratch. Depending on Obsidian's long-term planning, it might make sense to bite the bullet and port it to Unity 5. Regardless of whether they continue with 4 or upgrade to 5, they'll undoubtedly be improving on the game engine as a whole for the simple reason that they are now much more experienced with the Unity framework. Project Eternity was their first project with this framework, and it takes superhuman effort to get anything near optimal performance out of a new framework when you work with it first. Even if you discover halfway through that you could do something much smarter in another way, there may well be no time to try it out without disrupting the schedule, and you have to shelve it for the next major project with a significant budget.

Interesting; What are you using to view the forum? Whatever the case, both on my stationary and my mobile the forums are marked as follows, so I assumed that was what everybody saw: General Discussion (NO SPOILERS) Stories (Spoiler Warning!) Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) Technical Support (Spoiler Warning!)

I, on the other hand, am fine with soulbound being class limited as they are optional alternatives to other great weapons. I also think the world - or at least the small portion of it that constitutes internet message boards - would be a better place if more people: 1) Search the forums to see if their new topic is already being discussed or has been discussed recently before posting a new topic. 2) Use descriptive thread titles; I understand why you might not, because it would constitute a spoiler, and the forum you are posting in isn't for spoilers. 3) Address issue #2 by posting spoiler threads in the forums marked for spoilers, not in forums that are explicitly marked: NO SPOILERS. (Which just goes to show how old-fashioned I am, I guess.) EDIT: Thread relocation from General to Stories subforum has now taken place.

One thing that should perhaps be noted, is that for players that don't autopause on ability use, might is probably considerably better than dexterity overall, as they are not going to be getting the most out of the combat-frames saved by higher dexterity where spellcasting is concerned.

@Cottonmouth Every action consists of an animation of the action, a recovery period, and if a firearm, a reload period, each lasting a certain base number of frames modified by several factors. Dexterity affects everything, attack speed and recovery modifier affects recovery, and reload speed affects reloading. See this thread: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/72272-combat-mechanics-attack-speed-recovery The following is a link to a shared google spreadsheet with the best information yet derived - so long as nobody has ****ed up editing it, that is. Download a local copy and play with it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit?pli=1#gid=1264774515

I respectfully disagree with the ideas espoused in the opening post. Allowing the player to effectively decide who the enemy attacks does not make for more strategic play - it makes for easier and more predictable play, where tactical mistakes of positioning and lack of battlefield control go unpunished. This, in turn, makes planning strategy a trivial task as few contingencies have to be considered. Tank & Spank, which is what taunting mechanics devolve to, is not the apogee of tactics; If anything, it is the opposite. The better solution to enemy AI in some situations performing bad choices when fighting the player is not removing the AI choice by turning it into a player choice, but improving the AI routines.

This is a bug. I got it as a 4th level spell, and the spell is designed as a 4th level spell, but due to one of the bugs affecting Ninagauth's Black Pages grimoire (five 4th level spells for the four 4th level slots), it will for some people show up to be learned as a 3rd level spell rather than 4th level. This is supposed to be fixed in the 2.02 beta, such that it is level 4 for everybody. (Though I don't know if it is a retroactive fix, changing it from 3 to 4 for those who've got it memorized as 3rd, or not.)

The main benefit of boots of speed is moving around swifter if you are scouting with a single scout rather than moving the entire party all the time. They can also be handy for characters that need to reposition often in combat. If you want to attack faster, potions of power (+20% attack speed) or potion of deleterious alacrity of motion (+50% attack speed) can be bought or crafted, and you might be lucky enough to find Gauntlets of Swift Action (+15% attack speed) as random loot. Moreover, a wizard can cast Deleterious Alacrity of Motion on himself with a 3rd level spell (so from level 5+), and a druid with access to 7th level spells (level 13+) can create consumables usable by everybody that give +20% attack speed. Finally there is always stacking dexterity via equipment, resting bonuses, or food - this provides a 3% bonus to action speed per point and action speed is superior to attack speed, as it affects everything the character does when taking an action.

They are certainly viable from the start, as I have done it on POTD without any great difficulty. (Though admittedly the wizard did get knocked out frequently in the early levels in chapter 1.) You are right that it would be much easier to go with higher constitution at start and then retrain to different stats later, if you are fine with changing the fundamental stats of your character along the way.

In terms of combat game mechanics, I'd rank Intelligence as the first priority, due to increasing the AOE radius allowing you to affect more enemies and to use AOE that isn't FOE-only more liberally without hurting your own people. (The duration bonus, while nice, is less important as most wizard spells with durations have fairly long durations.) I'd rank Dexterity second, because outside the very early game, what limits the wizard in combat is not his number of spell slots but how quickly he can cast his spells. (This is assuming a wizard who rests often as the game makes possible, not one that tries to conserve spells to rest seldom. For such a one dexterity might be worth less compared to might and perception.) Might versus perception is harder; If the wizard is more of a blaster type than controller, then I'd say Might is better, because for damage purposes a 3% damage increase beats 1% accuracy shifting the miss/graze/hit/crit intervals. But if the wizard is more a controller than blaster, then Perception is clearly better. Finally there's the question of defenses - if one dumps con and res and have high dex and int, then one might be better off with high mig and medium per than the other way around. Not a big issue, but something to remember. And of course, it must also be taken into account what the rest of the party is contributing. Is the wizard under the effect of a constant Zealous Aura? Will there be a priest to cast Devotions of the Faithful?

Good question. Hadn't really given it a thought. I'm tempted to say that if I did this in the first place, then I'd pick stats more for conversation options than for any other reason. But that would also raise the obvious question of whether to pick stats for conversation options, where I knew the difficulty in advance, or stats such that I could, knowing what they were in advance, perform appropriate rest/food boosting to meet requirements. I'd end up with very different stat requirements that way. And, it must be mentioned, that if I really get into a roleplaying mood, then I might decide to shaft conversation stats simple because it feels rather contrived to stack up on them because I know they give lots of conversation options, and go for something else entirely to see how the game played when I didn't have access to the often superior conversational shortcuts. So something like: Human Ocean Folk, an ex-Raider from the Deadfire Peninsula - a person quick of mind and body, who prefers solving problems with logic rather than force. 10 Mig 9 Con 19 Dex 13 Per 18 Int 9 Res This is obviously a better controller than blaster, but given the constraints, it is a very good controller. For a more boring conversation + blasting with the same constraints, 19/9/9/16/16/9. As you note, the downsides are minor - at least so long as you play with a full party. I imagine that the downsides would be much more severe if attempting to solo the game. The downside to 3 con is, as should be expected, being very squishy during the first few levels of the game, especially if visiting the Temple of Eothas with just a few companions rather than a full party. Infuse With Vital Essence is an essential spell during the early game from level 3-6 and remains valuable in dangerous encounters throughout the game, but from around level 7 or so the wizard has enough hitpoints, spell defenses, and crowd control to avoid being hit in most encounters and strictly limiting how much he is hit in the rest, with enough of a buffer to live while Corrosive Siphon (or healing spells from a priest/paladin) tops him up. That being said, getting constitution bonuses from gear is highly recommended - but then again, wizards acting from the rear ranks don't really need to stack up on anything but stat bonuses, so that's hardly a hardship. The downside to 3 resolve is triple; The concentration penalty is harsh in the very early game when one is unable to control encounters or don't have a full party - but fortunately there's a spell, Spirit Shield, to help with that. The low deflection is not much of a problem - yes, it makes the wizard quite easy to knock out in the very early game when combined with the 3 constitution, but after the early game it makes little difference; The wizard either doesn't suffer many deflection attacks in the first place because it is one of the fights where everything is under control, or he buffs up with defensive spells. It is for the same reason that a rear rank caster wizard doesn't need to wear a +5/+9 deflection or +5/+9 will/reflex/fortitude ring/bracer/cloak - they help only marginally in the rare situations when the wizard doesn't have the situation under control, so it is much better to wear equipment boosting primary stats, which help always. (Not that there's anything wrong with wearing the defensive clothing until stat boosting is available). The third downside is the greatest by far: not getting resolve options in conversation. Resolve is probably the strongest stat for conversations, beating the other two top conversation stats of perception and intelligence by allowing shortcuts through sheer bloodymindedness. On the positive side, this leads to investigating the other conversation branches, so... E.g. by end of the game, a wizard could wear: +2 mig chest +3 con belt +3 dex ring +3 per cloak +2 int helm spellpower bracers (+10%, so equivalent to 3 1/3 points of Might) and the Ring of Selonan and some nice boots (e.g. +15 health) (Or a 3 mig helm/2 int chest, or... well, many other combinations.)

I quite agree that interrupts are important and that DAOM is a wonderful spell, but DAOM doesn't affect Action Speed, only Attack Speed. That means it cuts down on the recovery time when casting a spell but not the casting time, while dexterity cuts down on both. Dexterity is the only thing that cuts down on casting speed. The choices of dex vs per for a mix-maxed blaster wizard (when mig and int are maxed) is 19 dex/16 per (27% action speed, 6 accuracy, 18 interrupt) and 16 dex/19 per (18% action speed, 9 accuracy, 27 interrupt). So I choose the 19 dex version, as the 9% extra action speed is worth more to me than 3 accuracy and 9 interrupt extra. If I want even more interruption, there's always the talent for +15 more. When DAOM is up, that gives a 27% shorter casting time and a 77% shorter recovery time. And that's before you start wearing +dex equipment or gain +dex resting bonuses. EDIT: Removed surplus math section.

An impressive act of Necromancy has been observed: gkathellar answering 3 year old questions. Oh, well, the thread seems to be progressing nicely after that, but it was a bit surprising to see.

And I'd say that while both are important, I consider dexterity more important than perception, as it is fairly easy to buff accuracy (Paladin Aura, Priest spell, Wizard spell, and/or accuracy gauntlets) but impossible to buff action speed, and action speed determines your spell throughput. So my ideal min-maxed blaster wizard is a 18 mig, 3 con, 19 dex, 16 per, 19 int, 3 res elf from old Valia.

You are right that at level 13 druids get a spell that allows all the party to gain +20% attack speed, though comparing this in practice to getting +50% attack speed at level 5 is a bit... err. strange. One is a strong self-buff the wizard has available for most of the game, the other a great party buff available when mopping up the last areas of the game. In addition, since you are talking about attack speed only affecting recovery times, the point is that - for wizards - that's pretty damned important, because after level 5, where you can get DAOM, the two most commonly used AOE damage spells have fast cast speed, good damage, and medium radius. Not so for druids; they do have some fast cast damage spells as well, but they have drawbacks that makes them less generally useful than the slower casting druid spells (small radius, deals damage over a long time rather than up front, etc.) Most of the time druids will be using average cast speed spells (or even slow, for the first storm spell) rather than fast cast. You note that Druids have spells that combine high damage with small CC effects. Let me note that while there are druid damage spells that CC such as Calling the World's Maw that applies prone, most of the side effects to druid damage spells are debuffs that don't prevent the enemy from acting, and thus don't crowd control. As for wizards, while they aren't as good as debuffing with their damage spells as druids are, they do have one spell that combines good damage with a strong CC effect and that is the 4th level spell Ninagauth's Shadowflame, which applies paralysis and significant cold damage in a 2.5m radius. In addition, it has a fast casting speed. (And by paralysis debuffing deflection and reflex by 40 as well as preventing enemies from acting, it makes it very likely that any enemy merely grazed by this spell will be taking hits or crits from the followup fast-cast fireballs and shadowflames.) Let me assure you that hitting moving enemies with Shadowflames and paralysing them is no problem. Not having to spend a long time on casting average, like is needed with the druid spells you prefer, makes it rather easy. Which of course is the point; While there are individual druid spells like Relentless and Returning Storm that are very powerful in that they are fire-and-forget and consistently apply low damage for a long time, wizards are able to apply a heck of a lot of damage up front coupled with CC. It is silly enough doing it with one wizard. I tried doing it with two wizards in my current POTD game while waiting to pick up the Devil of Caroc, and it was absurd, since most enemies were paralyzed by the 2nd or 3rd Shadowflame, and DAOM+high DEX and 5% recovery armour meant that fireballs and shadowflames could be chained at a very low frame cost. The thought of doing that with 6 wizards instead is grotesque. But it also sounds rather boring. ANYHOW - as you say, Elric Galad, whether 6 druids or 6 wizards, the party would be incredibly powerful, and I suspect that the 6 druid party would be more fun, as you might be tempted to try alternative strategies unlike wizards, where "paralyze and burn down all enemies with 6 wizards chaining fast cast speed 3rd and 4th level spells" would be optimal in most encounters due to the sheer amount of fast cast spells.

Highest AOE damage per second: Wizard using DAOM and fast-cast AOE spells until he runs out of spells. Highest AOE damage per spell and highest sustained AOE damagedealing: Wizard using DAOM and Blights with implement/blast talents or Spirit Lance.

Reasonable enough. Thank God the game doesn't feature clothing-dependent frostbite in White March.

Or wear a Berathian Priest Robe (the ones you pick up 6 of for disguises) for a 5% recovery penalty, 2DR, and good looks, something that can be done much earlier in the game and will later on save the Durgan steel for other uses.

It is hard to imagine any full class party currently more powerful than 6 wizards from level 5 and onwards. Deleterious Alacrity of Motion has a lot to answer for. (And sure, it can be crafted as a potion, but nobody has enough crafting materials to allow 6 non-wizards to drink DAoM potions in every encounter). But the micromanagement would be hellacious to deal with.

KDubya and gkathellar are right on the superb enchant issue; It was rather frustrating in the release version. As for the lash enchant, Fire and Corrode remain the most generally useful options, but I'm tempted to say that you should go with whichever visuals you prefer. The difference in damageoutput between the various types is, on the whole, marginal, and when fighting enemies with very high DR in general it is unlikely to be the lash of your weapons that make a difference in whether you defeat them or not.

Fine with me so long as it is by design rather than by accident. As an example, a fighter who's immortal if the player doesn't equip him right or use his abilities right is unlikely to be much fun to play, unless he is an NPC with a great backstory explaining his immortality, and is something I'd normally consider poorly designed, while a fighter class who required the player to equip and specialize in a certain way to achieve immortality when the player played well, but failed to achieve immortality when played poorly or with minimal tactical considerations (positioning/ability use), could be a quite funny class design to play. You'd probably want to give it a more thematic name hinting at its awesome powers than fighter, though. Likewise, if you make a cipher class to have all sorts of different abilities to use with a resource system that gradually refills in combat, and it turns into a machinegun against your intent and in combat doesn't represent the class as it is otherwise presented in the game, thus creating a clear dissonance, that's bad, whereas if the cipher operating as a machinegun fits into the theme or story being told (and is fun to play), that's great. I've played fantasy CRPGs where melee damagedealers were the most powerful, where ranged damagedealers were the most powerful, where casters were most powerful, and a few other combinations during my 30 years of playing singleplayer CRPGs, and I can't say that it matters much to me who comes out on top of the different classes in a game. I just examine what is available and tailor my party (or single character) to the theme I want to achieve and challenge I want to face and go with that. It isn't as if my party members in a party based singleplayer CRPG game are in competition with each other, after all. It is all about putting together a party that, together, meet my various goals. (Same goes for races.) And, of course, regardless of what sort of class balance there is in a game, there will be players complaining about it. Nerf this, buff that, ad nauseam. That pretty much goes without saying. But who cares? Other than those who agree with them that class balance is important, but for whatever reason prefer another class balance, that is. :D