Moragauth

I'm using a Goldpact/Evoker build which I am finding to be fun.

I'd like Thaumaturge or Arcane Knight for Aloth. I do wish they'd just leave the combinations open to you aside from the main class. Waiting for something like the IE mod to customise the game to my liking.

I might be more tempted to try wizard specialisations now. Pity that there's no romanceable Eder. I don't really like the other male options that much... Aloth is passable, I guess.

Such a shame that Eder is off limits!

I'll keep an eye out for them!

Does that apply to the enemy ones too? So far, I don't find them particularly tough, and I don't know if it's because they're badly optimised and/or scripted. Equally, I hope they don't go and do the complete opposite in Deadfire, making them too weak, as some developers are wont to do. I probably won't be touching PoE II for several months, anyway, as I'm gonna finish POE I first... so by that point the devs will hopefully have ironed any issues out... or there will be mods to do just that. :D

I meant the beginner's guide in the forum. Combined with the build guides, it's enough to piece together how to build a party. I'm using the IE mod, though, to get around the poor stat optimisation of the NPCs. Don't like running with deadweights. :D

Nevermind, found what I wanted. Didn't realise the last big patch was as from a couple of years ago. :S

I recall hearing the game had a big patch a while ago... are there any good up to date character/party design guides you would recommend for the game in its current iteration? Also appreciated would be any guides covering the NPCs. I don't have the greatest amount of free time, so I'm looking to min/max a bit, since I will just be going through one playthrough ultimately.

Divine Divinity yes, the rest, no. I played DD too long ago to recall it, really. I remember it had a well designed ability system in that there were limits on just how powerful your character could become. The majority of the rest are on my "to play" list. The thing is, I can still find them enjoyable, even if I dislike the design of the mechanics, as with, say, Morrowind or Oblivion.

I disagree strongly. IMO TESO is a textbook example of how not to do a classless system. Well to put it another way, it's about the only "classless" game I've enjoyed on the PC. However, I am not really one for classless systems, they've never held intuitive appeal to me. D&D tends to allow about as much customisation as I like.

I've never been keen on the TES mechanics, as far as I am concerned 3.5e has a huge edge over it. However, TESO did do the "classless" system as well as it can be done, IMO. D&D isn't perfect but as far as rulesets go, it is my favourite.

It depends, I don't see an issue with taking the 4th edition approach of purely assigning bonuses. For particularly powerful races, penalties can make sense to keep them balanced. Arcana Evolved had a nice approach to it, making the more advanced racials attainable through levels, a bit like TESO has done. I agree that it doesn't have to be level penalties, I really hate those.

...yet they're the ultimate failures. They see all their works come to naught, and they themselves are doomed to fade away. That's kind of the point. This is a pretty standard trope with them these days, too, and I think the Forgotten Realms perhaps goes the farthest to incorporate a similar theme, with the Retreat. The Altmer in TES suffer from this as well, although they are far more hellbent on the "do something about it" part, and it remains to be seen where they are headed; the MMO certainly didn't capture them all that well. What I do like about the LOTR elves (and Altmer) is their basis on what are, more or less, angelic beings. They also mirror many of the flaws (and virtues) of these beings. I guess I see Gromnir's point with regard to "perfection" making them ill-suited to being a playable race, however I still enjoy seeing them as superior in some significant aspects, with some concomitant flaws. I just loathe the "fated to vanish and die" theme. I'd rather see them as more embedded in the world, and eager to prosper within it. Longevity may change one's perspective but it is all too common to see RPGs translate this into an inability to adapt to changing circumstances. Mind, dwarves are often painted with the same flaw, but the "fated to vanish" theme is often omitted, with the notable exception of the Dwemer, who are dwarves in name alone. Personally, I like the notion of giving the race a "higher" caste of ancestors, and making the playable ones a bit more "down to earth" or at least invested in and capable of prolonging their presence on the homeworld, leaving it open to the writer if they wish to use the former as a tragic tale of extinction. I think, in spite of its flaws, WC managed to do a pretty decent job with re-energising the race. Particularly with the Scourge attack on the sin'dorei breaking them out of the aeons they spent ensuring they remained hidden from the Legion, becoming one of the most dynamic elf races out there, in terms of how much they do to ensure their survival. They remain one of my favourite renditions of the race, particularly how Blizzard made an effort to exaggerate their visuals. Maybe a single player RPG, like this one, that focuses more on the Fae mythos for the elves would be refreshing. Amalur did try, albeit not with the elves per se. I need to get around to finishing that game at some stage. All this reminds me that I need to re-watch LOTR and see the newest movies at some point, and read the books in the future. I read the Silmarillion when I was 15 but it's all faded into oblivion since then... along with the Earthsea Quartet, Cycle of the Eternal Champion, GoT etc etc... there just isn't enough time in this world.

Indeed, I do prefer his rendition of them, much as I do their mythological source of inspiration, but it has never hinged on whether Tolkien described them with pointy ears or not. It's also remarkably difficult to pull off with success, and you are correct, it is difficult to do justice to as a concept in a CRPG, something I agree with wholeheartedly.

Most CRPGs don't position them as being as superior in every respect, just certain. Regarding whether Tolkien described them with pointy ears or not in explicit wording, does it matter?

Ditto for me but vice versa.

Yes, I think those are good points - rarely will a person who commits evil deeds regard them as such themselves, they will often develop twisted justifications for them, and if they're psychopathic, they may even do so without regard to the coherence of these justifications, lacking in empathy and the capacity for grasping contradictory behaviour as they are. Warcraft actually did a good job of conveying the rationale behind demons wanting to end the world, as did Skyrim with the Thalmor and their intended outcome for Nirn. The former, though, still portrayed them as comically evil, perhaps in line with its aesthetic. Even the story of Lucifer involves him taking actions against God which he considers justified. I take it you don't mean to imply the latter are evil by default... I would like the ability to play an "evil" character, too. Evil tends to involve either serving a being that is defined as malevolent in the setting, or by being selfish to the point of actively harming others, e.g. stealing from them, murdering, raping, etc. Generally speaking, sociopathic acts, regardless of what the stated intentions behind them are. I think these are considered nasty actions, regardless of whether one calls them evil, immoral, unjustifiable and so on. I'm not a moral subjectivist or nihilist, as someone who has a liking for Kantian-style ethical theories, but as this is fantasy, I'd still like the ability to play a character willing to engage in such acts, as well as ones more subtly veiled. What I tend to like is cases like the Thalmor in Skyrim. I would have liked to side with them. In their warped interpretation of their theology, they are not doing evil but eliminating it. And the same with lesser extremes within their race, who nonetheless share their supremacist views. Or the political intrigue and cynicism in Game of Thrones. Perhaps I would like to side with the Targaryens, the Lannisters, the Tyrells, or perhaps none of the above. I realise it's an RPG with limitations imposed by the need to tell its story, but I hope the story is written so that there is leeway for several possible outcomes. it's a considerable ask, however it's something very, very few RPGs have captured successfully, to my mind, and is something that, had BG2 achieved it, would have made it even more legendary. I tend to dislike labels like "evil" in these games, as well as "good", as they tend to try and compress too many moral theories into them, going with the typical altruism = good, selfishness = evil twist, which I consider flawed, to say the least. Unless, of course, these are somehow embedded into the setting. I do think these labels work for extraplanars and spells related to them, however, particularly demons and celestial beings. But beyond that, I dislike alignment systems in games. I'd just like the ability to see meaningful choices, by which I mean ones that have an impact on the storyline, its progression and the choices that unfold. Whether they are evil should be for the player to decide, and not pre-labelled by the game devs. That is the key to a successful narrative, IMO.

Because it's a "been done, a couple of thousand times over" sort of thing. Very few RPGs manage to bring a new twist to it, or successfully integrate it. So they feel like cheapened LOTR rip offs. It would be great if they actually could deliver on it. That said, I love elves myself, they're just about the only race I ever play, however I find that most games don't do them the way I prefer them. I certainly have never liked the slim, sort D&D version of them, and prefer Tolkien in this regard. They seemed to have drifted into the arena of slim prettyboys for fangirls to squeal over, these days. Warhammer did a good job of them, in presenting them as a very gritty, at times sinister race, especially for the dark elves. Same with the elves from the Witcher. WoW did a passable rendition, albeit still felt the need to tack on unnecessary stereotypes that its concept art pretty much contradicted at every point. TES (not necessarily TESO) does a great job, but still can't seem to let go of some the "skinny elf" or "dying elven era" themes of which I am sick to death. 4th edition D&D also brought a nice twist to them, by splitting the race in three and developing one of them into the eladrin, which I think are fantastic and which I will be using as a basis for my own writings with reference to elves. Granted, the elves of LOTR were ethereal, beautiful creatures, but weak or "skinny" is not how I'd describe them. The blood elves, particularly in the concept art, if not always in the lore, are the closest a setting has come to achieving my preferred form of elf. If the game is able to deliver elves along the lines of LOTR, I'll be satisfied. I think TESO actually succeeds quite well at this, as far as MMOs go.

I hope the AI is good. BG2 had a very good AI (or scripting, rather), but by default it wasn't exploited to the fullest. Add on Improved Tactics mod, and there's already a significant improvement. One thing I hope is that enemy spellcasters will be potent, and not just the usual fodder they seem to be in many an RPG these days. Anything less than BG2 with the Tactics Mod is apt to disappoint me, at least it should be an option for those willing to give themselves a hard time. AD&D was very binary, however. Perhaps IWD2's usage of 3.5e is what made it harder to do things, like cheese dragon fights by using Finger of Death. Personally, I am of the view that some fights should be impossible without good usage of tactics, and even when those are used, it should be difficult; not the typical formula of somewhat hard without, easy with.

To an extent. I have just grown jaded after repeated exposure to some stereotypes I've never really liked, I guess, for certain races, which has held them back even when innovative twists were introduced for them. I actually agree with this. Not that I have issues with elves or dwarves, per se, it's more the way they're introduced, in exactly the same way, following the same archetypes/stereotypes, that annoys me, so much so that even when the developers are breaking serious new ground, they still feel compelled to refer to these races by names like 'elf' or 'dwarf', shackling them back to the stereotypes to placate player demand. To an extent this applies to classes, as well, albeit less so. I'm not that gripped by a desire for novelty, but really all fantasy settings seem to proceed based on a template these days. The last one I saw with much potential, that intrigued me, was Monte Cooke's Diamond Throne, which does tread quite a lot of new ground, although it's not as developed as other fantasy settings, and more of a showcase for his Arcana Evolved ruleset, which is, by all accounts, excellent, and would make for a great fantasy setting one day. Me too, but I'm also pretty tired of companies not-making isometric cRPGs. PoE is pretty encouraging when it comes to a lot of things we're tired of. The irony is that the isometric games have held up the test of time very well. They still look beautiful. Morrowind, FFVIII etc? Not so much. Great RPGs but it is amazing just how terrible some of these games look when you see more contemporary 3D games. A lot of that's a question of taste I guess. To me PS:T especially is eye-searingly awful graphically. On the other hand, so are all those earlier 3D RPGs, so maybe I just hate everything. Aye, I am referring more to the likes of BG2 or IWD/IWD2, both of which remain pretty. They haven't aged nearly as badly as their 3D counterparts, like NWN. PS:T wasn't the prettiest of games. Diablo 2 has the same issue, methinks.

Me too, but I'm also pretty tired of companies not-making isometric cRPGs. PoE is pretty encouraging when it comes to a lot of things we're tired of. The irony is that the isometric games have held up the test of time very well. They still look beautiful. Morrowind, FFVIII etc? Not so much. Great RPGs but it is amazing just how terrible some of these games look when you see more contemporary 3D games.

Agreed, more shades of grey would be welcome. This was one of my gripes when questing in TESO as well. A lot of the time, the options are painted as some Manichaean struggle between good and evil, and you're usually confined to the 'good' ones. So much for defining your own character.

Yes, I am silently optimistic about the game. It may well prove to be the next BG2.

The ones I loathe most are being too reliant on stereotypes or archetypes and not shaking it up a little. My pet peeves are adorning a race with a name like 'elf' and then shoehorning it into the slim, wields a bow archetype that D&D distilled from LOTR and has set in stone. Even games like WoW, which supposedly broke the mould, still do this. The other thing I dislike is homogeneising these races too much with humans. They should maintain an element of distinctiveness. The same could be said of classes. I think Pillars of Eternity is already on good footing in introducing some new classes, however I appreciate that with classes there are some boundaries as to what their functionality is. Still, I like classes like the warlock of 4E D&D, which is an offensive spellcaster with good durability, single target focus and a focus on rapid, fast damage. So basically a mix of archetype classes, like the holy quartet of the priest, warrior rogue and mage, and some others that mix things up a little. The main thing for me is really the excessive use of the same old racial tropes over and over, like elves being a dying race giving way to humans. This is so over-done as to instantly put me off any game using it. It's no longer interesting to me, if it ever was.