Ace

A Selkath Jedi Master? I can see why Revan turned to the darkside now

I think that the combat music in KOTOR2 is better than KOTOR1's, but I prefer KOTOR1's use of strong themes. However, KOTOR1 does sound to me more like a D&D game then a Starwars game except for a few of the tracks. Namely the Sith Cult (used in the main menu) and Bastila themes sound Starwarsy. KOTOR2 music wise I think did a good job in many ways bridging KOTOR and SW's music. I do wish that there was a version of KOTOR1's Republic theme in the game, a sadder and darker version, that was used though at appropriate times. Of course I also wish that the music was in a nice, high resolution, format in the game so it'd have more "oomph"

I sorta have a project at the moment that I'm in the beginning stages of, and I think that's going to take up most of my time. Eisu draws some really wonderful handmaiden drawings though (the thread's around here somewhere I think) ... maybe he'd be game..? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh well... Thanks for the reply I'm guessing I'm not the only one who thinks Atton looks very Jedi-ish in the proper robes. Moreso than some of the other characters.

Eji, I was wondering if you'd be interested in drawing up a comic roughly based on the little "what if" dialogs done up between Kreia and the Handmaiden in the Kreia/Kae question thread? I know you're more of an Attonoholic but it might be a fun fan project

I'm glad a couple people like the little "what if" thingie I wrote up. It's nothing compared to what the real dialog probably would have been like though...

Hrmm... I don't know. It'd have to be something Kreia-ish. Maybe: <The Handmaiden slowly approaches the Exile and a dying Kreia> Handmaiden: Exile, permit me to ask her one last question. Exile: Brianna are you... Handmaiden: <Dodging the question> My body will heal. <With a mixture of impatience and fear> My question? <The Exile Nods, the Handmaiden kneels down by Kreia> Handmaiden: I have now seen you fight. Did you ever care for me as you care for him? Kreia: If you do not know the answer for yourself, you are as much of a fool as Atton. Handmaiden: <Irritated, but her voice is full of fear> You did not answer my question, did you ever... care for me? Kreia: Do you ask for the same sheepish worship that Yusanis gave Arren Kae from me? Or do you ask for love? The love that no... Jedi can ever know... or give. <Kreia releases a breath and looks almost relieved> Know this, your mother never knew love until it was too late. She did not know love when she was no longer a Jedi... She did not know love even when she could no longer be even a Sith. She did not know love... <Her eyes begin to close, the Handmaiden holds her hand, and her last words are a whisper> ...until now. <The Handmaiden stares at Kreia's body for a moment, and under her breath says> ...there is no death... there is... Exile: <holding the Handmaiden's hand> the force.

There is also an odd thing related to the names: Kae Traya Kreia It's like Kreia is a mixture of "Kae" and "Traya."

Let's see how many Jedi Masters are there total? Atris, Vrook, Kavar, and moustache man. "There is no emotion, there is peace. There is no ignorance, there is knowledge. There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony. There is no death, there is the Force." With Vash dead/cut this is on more of a limb then it might have been originally. Atris fails at the first part. Vrook fails with the second line, being ignorant. Moustache man on Nar Shadaa fails the third line due to his passions driving him into hiding. Kavar fails the fourth line due to his inability to resolve the chaos on Onderon? (a stretch) Vash most likely failed the fifth line due to her master/apprentice relationship gone awry. Though this is a stretch since that was cut from the game. Since Darth Traya was a former Master herself, most likely the line can apply to her due to her attempt to destroy the force though this is a stretch. Five masters, all failing the code in their own ways.

If anything G0T0 shows that dilemma more than even Kreia: He was driven the order to save the Republic, an order given with good intentions. G0T0 calculates that the only way to do this is through a strong economy and the elimination of the religious strife that the Jedi and Sith cause. The only way to have such a strong economy is through drug trafficing, extortion, and slavery. The only way to end the religious strife is to manipulate the Exile. In an odd way, G0T0 shows that a galaxy without the force is just as warped and twisted as one being driven by it. Sadly, the Exile isn't able to use this "lesson" in the final dialog...

I do think that Kreia being the Handmaiden's mother makes sense. It seems like a plot thread removed either due to constraints or maybe because it would mean more plot points that female characters would miss. Anyway, this dialog would have been pretty powerful: < if Exile male, to Handmaiden> Think. Think before you throw away your life for him. Think of everything you will lose by dying.Your lusts unfulfilled. A dance, unfinished. A love, requited. Think before you give it up so quickly. Handmaiden: By putting my weapons down I will dishonor the Exile. I cannot dishonor the Exile anymore then I can dishonor the memory of my mother. Kreia: Foolish words. Perhaps I could simply marr your face to show how foolish your clinging to a memory of her is. Or perhaps the truth would leave a greater wound... Handmaiden: Your words are hollow Traya. Your lies will end here today. If not by my hand, then by the Exile's. Kreia: Hollow? {[Kreia gives a wry smile]} Then know the truth and suffer for it. Arren Kae did not die at Malachor, or at least not in the way you believe... Look into your feelings... Handmaiden: {[in despair]} No... it... {These last words are said in pure anguish} it cannot be... <presumably the Handmaiden collapses at this point> Kreia: {[Gameplay Programmer: Kreia turns to Visas.]}And you, blind one, you have hungered to strike me down ever since you saw the bond the exile and I share. Anyway, it avoids the whole: "I am your mother!" "NOOOOO!" thing, while still having the impact for the plot.

One thing that was nice in KOTOR2 was being involved in battles such as the Sky Ramp and Khoonda plains. However, something lacking in Starwars games and the recent movies are good old fashioned space battles. KOTOR1 had some of the Star Forge sequences while KOTOR2 comes close at moments with the choice to destroy Peragus or not, the brief battle over Onderon, and the snippets of the fight against the Ravager, but something that would be nice to see in future SW:RPGs and scifi RPGS in general would be more interaction with the space battles occuring. For example, objectives on the ship you're on such as "Do four of the following:" with a list of things like manning turrets, disabling shields, turning off engines, etc. and seeing the battle outside interact with your ship. (corridors explode, small cutscenes, seeing major battle events through the windows) Anyway, it'd be nice to have some real space battles

That's one thing that surprised me that wasn't in the game. It appeared that in Planescape: Torment a lot of effort went into making sure that alignment changing dialog options had variants such as lie/bluff. This game has it most of the time, but there's a few instances where it wasn't there but was needed. For example: [Vow] I will help you no matter the cost to restore the Jedi. [Vow/Lie] I will help you no matter the cost to restore the Jedi. What's in this for me? I don't care. Die fool! That way you can play smart or dumb. Sadly there were a few dialogs in the game (namely sidequests it seems) where a good lie option wasn't there.

Let's see going by the first post's rules: Na-Rosea Waada

I think we just found the person "B" of this thread (oops, this got posted one post too late for full effect, oh well ) In all seriousness though, politics threads in the end just lead to the realization by calmer heads that politics in reality are: poly as in many ticks as in bloodsucking

I do think it would have been interesting if it was Master Kavar who injured Malak in the early Jedi Civil War, leading to 'ol steel jaws.

Would you prefer to see the writers posting as Kreia calling everyone "fools and imbeciles?"

I was under the impression that Sion commanded the Sith assassins and Trayus academy after Kreia was banished, and Nihilus had the Ravager's fleet and some other Sith forces that he occassionally used for "culling" planets for food. The one thing I'm not sure of in the plot is why Nihilus would have had a Sith Lord under him be involved with Onderon's rebellion (another question is why would Nihilus have had any force users, I would have assumed that he would have fed on many of them under his command). The impression is that Nihilus' faction is the one that contacted Vaklu. It'd make sense for Sion to do this, to bring Kavar out of hiding so his assassins could finish the job. However, Nihilus may not be really calling the shots in his faction, his underlings who are safely away from Nihilus sucking the life out of them might be doing things in his name in the hopes that he won't feed on them. Traya seems to regain command mainly because the Sith seem to recognize how powerful she has become again, and Sion quickly capitulates to her, reinforcing her control. Anyway as a literal answer on who was Sith Lord when, from what it seems: At the beginning of the game: Nihilus Right after Nihilus dies: Sion When the Exile arrives on Malachor V: Traya

Urquhart '08! Seriously though, you're replying to threads that I'd personally have closed but are making fun or informative comments as needed to redeem them.

I do think having a flashback/recording of the Exile giving the order to destroy Malachor V, and Visas giving a force vision of the destruction of Katarr would have been two excellent scenes. While we can imagine what they were like, the visual impact of seeing these scenes would have been great. Bao-Dur taking the solemn (or eager) order to destroy the world... Visas being alone on the surface of her dead world while Nihilus looms over her...

Markussun, how is the music upsampling project going? It is sad that the composer isn't being allowed to release the sound track. The game isn't a priority enough for them to release the music as a CD, yet is important enough for them to not allow the composer to have the music as a download. A lose-lose situation.

So I'm not the only one who liked Heart of Winter. I was surprised when people complained about it. Sure, it was short, but it was a very cinematic campaign. Trials of the Luremaster was a fun, free, expansion set. I don't think the question is whether or not Obsidian wants to do extra content for KOTOR2, as in the past Black Isle put quite a bit of effort into similar projects, but the question is will Lucasarts let them. Anyways, let's tell our little Carths not to hate Revan, but Malak for frying Telos

I was in the same boat too after NWN was released. Other then a few good quests the main campaign was uninspiring. I was hesitant to buy KOTOR at first, but when I did I didn't regret it. Similarly, Hordes of the Underdark was good enough to make up for the shortcomings of the official Neverwinter Nights campaign. I think that Obsidian is going to pull a good job with NWN2.

Looking at some of the various posts about how people feel about the KOTOR2 endgame, a lot of the comments seem a bit like Carth style whining as opposed to actual constructive criticism on what they would have done differently/prioritized in a similar time-crunch. Especially funny are the posts about how people feel betrayed and will never trust Obsidian again. Which reminds me very much of a certain character who a certain droid makes fun of. *Sigh* Anyway, I truly hope that Lucasarts does listen to the fans and to the folks at Obs and lets them do a content patch. If that doesn't happen, then there's always community mods. Afterall, fans for games like Morrowind wound up creating artwork better than Bethesda's and made mods that inspired Bethsoft to make features in the expansions and in Oblivion that they would not have made otherwise.

You're very close to the end.

If we gave our prizes, you would get one. Ran across that in one of the Jedi Quest children's books, and for some reason, it stuck. Chris <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm surprised it came from a children's book. The VO and dialog led me to the impression that it's quite a nasty swear word. I assumed that it was either original or from the various comics. Maybe the meaning became more benign over time? Turning from something nastier to simply 'weasel' in a few thousand years?