Plano Skywalker

maps are probably the most time-consuming aspect of writing a game (I would think) and I wouldn't expect a tight, linear game with lots of good content to be able to hold a candle to Morrowind and such games in terms of freedom. HOWEVER, I really would like to see at least a slight variation from the old 4 planets/4 clues and PRESTO, the endgame. part of this, of course, dovetails into the idea of the LS and DS paths not being exactly the same. this is what I would like to see: * drop the "first world gets destroyed" routine. it was fine for the first 2 games but, heck, Taris was the most fleshed-out world in K1 and I would have loved to use it as a trading post. * have exotic worlds like Coruscant in linear segments during the otherwise "free" middle game. I don't think you can really have Coruscant on the astro charts but have a scripted segment (maybe you are seperated from your ship after a crash landing and someone shuttles you there) that can fire at any point during the middle game. Same thing could apply to Leviathan-type encounters...need more of that in the middle game. * have at least one world difference between the LS and DS paths. Let's say the DS player has to go to Ziost during the middle game to get a certain clue. The LS player has some other world to go to instead. However, the LS player can still go to Ziost but just does not get the same triggers and clues that the DS player does. and, of course, I think having joinable factions and having more potential NPCs than the max shipmate slots on your ship would help to create a lot of illusionary open-endedness.

as I see it, KOTOR 3 has to wrap up the Revan/True Sith story arc. I think most of us can agree on that. I would hate it if they just keep "leaving room" and leave Revan unresolved. that is what K3 must do. what K3 should do is to set up joinable factions for future games in the franchise. Maybe the True Sith will remain in some fashion or other and maybe the Revan/Malak "pseudo-Sith" will remain, albeit under a different name. And then, there is the Krath, another dark side faction that is appropriate to the ancient setting. LS factions could include various Jedi splinter groups as well as things like Republic Fleet, Republic Intelligence, etc. faction-specific quests and party members would be cool.

right, and Season 2.5 on DVD should be out just before that.... I've seen everything in Season 1 and 2.0.

I am speaking to those whose main interest is in the games. My point is that, yes, they can keep it flexible in the games while still having an *official* story in the comics. I realize that when it comes to "C Canon", "all Star Wars is continuity". Still, I think there is a hierarchy. I think books and magazines can trump comics and I think comics can trump video games. They try not to do it but it can happen. I am hoping for the full fleshed-out story of Revan and the Exile.

think of it as a parallel universe: the games and the comics (and other printed materials). or, perhaps more accurately, think of the game as a charcoal sketch and the books/comics/etc as the fleshed out story. just because they hardcode these characters in EU continuity does not mean they will not go out of their way to keep it flexible in the games. I am not a big comic person per se but I'm glad they are fleshing out the story. I want to know the backgrounds of Sion, Nihilius, and, yes, even Revan and the Exile.

well, I think it probably does have to do with equality. The KOTORs were such good RPGs that they brought in a lot of non-SW fans. They really can't have both of the protagonists in these popular games hardcoded as caucasian males. Well, they could but they don't want to and it is better for business if they don't. my own take on this is that the long term solution is to not really have a half-baked character but, instead, have a fixed surname. that way, your mentor would take all (most) of the credit in continuity and you wouldn't have to worry about which build is continuity, etc.

@Azarkon....I agree with much of what you said there. I liked the influence system of KOTOR 2 but I agree that it did not feel organic enough and I did not like metagaming to get to certain results (whether that be LS/DS shift or something else). perhaps a solution is, as you say, more NPC-initiated dialogue. that way, if you go up to an NPC and start talking, you are doing that just for fun. if they approach you, you have to really concentrate on what you want to say as that segment will (most likely) never be repeated again. and, perhaps, more of a random element in the dialogues. for instance, if you start talking about the Mandalorians (to a non-Mandalorian), someone walks into the room and takes over the conversation from the one you had been talking to. things like that, anything to make it feel a little more organic. still, they were definitely on the right track.

I, for one, hope that we never see another "Yoda clone" in these games, at least not as a living person. Vandar was such as obvious crutch from the movies. and, of course, there is no "Yoda species" that is discernable, anyway, because George Lucas has said that we will never know the name of that species (if, indeed, it is an actual species). so, no Yoda PCs, either.

I agree that storyline ideas are not of much use if you post them in a public forum. why would they use something that has been splattered all over the place? the story has to have a bit of mystery to it. your best bet is to IM, email, or snail mail the devs or the publisher. I realize that they will say that they can't read it, but that is still your best bet. however, I do agree that it would be best if the story of K3 is a "trilogy-wrapper-upper" and does not "cut and run" from the story arc we are in now. K4, if there is one, CANNOT be about Revan and CANNOT be overshadowed by REVAN. Whether Revan is playable in some form or not or hardcoded or not or seen or not, his saga must end with K3.

having different ships at different segments of the game is also a good way to have exotic worlds (like Coruscant) that you cannot return to (because your new ship does not have it on the astrocharts). I can see where certain worlds (like Ziost or the Mandalorian home world) would be more exotic if you couldn't return to them....having different ships at different segments of the game would allow for more of this and allow for more "linear" storytelling in the otherwise "free" middle game. Linear segments of the game means the devs can go all out on it since no one will miss out on that segment.

oh, I hear you, the Revan thing was a REALLY CHEAP TRICK from a storytelling perspective. still, there would be advantages to having a fixed surname...for instance, the NPCs (such as the elders on the council) could call you "Padawan Stargazer" with full voice over. they could also speak of your uncle "Zak Stargazer", etc. I think a fixed surname would essentially be the best of both worlds: enough backstory to flesh things out while still providing you with control over gender, appearance, alignment, etc and without having to worry about which playthrough of the game is "canonical" and crap like that.

@The Architect: the problem you are describing is going to continue to be a problem as long as they keep using half-baked pregens as the protagonists. now, they could say that the games are basically "infinities" and that the continuity story will always be handled in the comics. but they haven't done that yet. with Revan, we have a name and a previous title "Dark Lord of the Sith". Exile is really just a backstory but everyone who plays the game has the same backstory...sooooo, we essentially have a pregen. THE SOLUTION (at least going forward) AS I SEE IT: * instead of a first name (or title or placeholder name) give the protagonist a fixed SURNAME (i.e. everyone plays "Padawan Stargazer", etc). * always have a "coprotagonist" with a defined name, gender, backstory, etc. Bastila, for instance, could be your mentor and coprotagonist in KOTOR 3. in some cases, you even control the coprotagonist when the game goes multithreaded. the advantage of a coprotagonist is that the continuity story has someone that can take full credit for what happened. the padawan can also be mentioned in continuity but still keeping it vague. for instance "Bastila Shan and her Padawan Stargazer set out to.....". The PC is mentioned but the story is more or less told from the hardwired character's perspective. * have multiple backstories. in other words, let us say that being an exiled Jedi was one of three backstories you could choose from early on in dialogue. that way, you can't just refer to the protagonist as "the Exile" as that was only one possible backstory. that helps keep the PC out of continuity which is ultimately good, IMO.

"the movie era" would be a good time to play a bounty hunter or some other non-Force user. the good thing about KOTOR/ancient setting is that it is absolutely dominated by Force users. we probably do need to see more than just 2 factions, though. we need to see all kinds of splinter groups. think of the intrigue of all that: Sith, Krath, Jedi, and various Jedi splinter groups. this is a feudal time and it should be all about factions.

right, I mean, I don't want them to reinvent the wheel every time....nothing wrong with building on what is already there. but they have to keep it interesting.

I guess it's pointless trying to use logic with Revan sicophants " I think you know damn well the implications of having a Darth name the same as a given name. This is NOT how Star Wars works. And, until LFL weighs in on it, I'm going let it dangle in the air. I am not, however, going to argue from silence as you have.

how about ancient Sith holocrons? I'd much rather find a cache of holocrons with people like Marka Ragnos speaking than the deck officer of the Peragus Mining Facility. don't get me wrong, Peragus was well done. but I think the point is clear: there are ways to make the familiar new. Dantooine is another example....I'd love to see it again but there has to be something new....I don't know, maybe a long-distance adventure of some kind. and I personally think Iziz would make a great urban hub for the game. as someone else alluded to, part of the solution might be to have different segments of the game. just as you had no choice about when to go to Peragus or Malachor V, maybe there could be certain segments inside the "middle game" in which you are seperated from your ship and go to a certain world during that time. you can't go back, since the world is not on your astrocharts. since this segment would be linear, it would allow the devs to have a lot of quests, FMV sequences and lush terrain (since they know no one will miss out on it). I like having freedom in the middle game but I wouldn't mind if the middle game worlds were often little more than trading posts and side quests. I have no problem with much of the main plot being on worlds that I cannot return to.

for me, it is a wash since I have yet to get into PST. however, as I say, as long as we continue to see games like KOTOR 2 that tell the story in much the same way as PST, I will be happy. I agree, though, we will not see a major, commercial, 3D, voiced-over game in which the protagonist is an amnesiac dead person...not going to happen. the best bet for a "spiritual successor" would be an indie project (2D sprites, partial VO, etc).

Deralia would be cool. Obviously, the world does exist, whether or not it really is Revan's homeworld. I also would like to see Droid World and some sort of ice world.

I agree with you about Korriban. There are so many other Sith worlds we need to see. however, if they use Korriban, they need to blow us away with it. it can't just be a rehashing of what we have already seen.

well, WOTC owns D&D and Planescape is a derivative property of D&D. If WOTC does not have current rules/support for it, they would, presumably, not allow a cRPG license to use it. but why depend on D&D? why couldn't they do a "spiritual successor" to it based on, say, Greek mythology....you've got the Elysian Fields, Tartarus, the river Styx, the god Hades (and his palace), Charon the ferryman, etc. and, of course, you can eventually "planewalk" in the material world and, in some cases, reach Mt. Olympus. I'd play a game like that. but as long as games use party members to tell the actual story of the game (PST, KOTOR 2) I'll be happy.

well, it appears my source is unsourced: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Utapau . (you might want to do a keyword search for "birthplaces"). this is probably based on a scant reference somewhere in the body of EU literature. here is another bit from another site (http://jnana.wikinerds.org/index.php/Jedi_origin): "Through study, meditation, communion, debate, and experimentation, the first coherent theories about the Force developed. Scientific, religious and philosophical groups documented living and unifying aspects of the Force and opened other, less defined attributes to theory and speculation. The part of the Force dedicated to knowledge and defense came to be considered the light side of the omnipresent energy field. The aggressive, jealous, covetous aspects of the Force were labeled aspects of the dark side. At some point, the groups gathered on one planet to create a new society dedicated to the study of the Force. The society came to be called the Jedi, although who named them and exactly what the significance of this name is remains unclear. The identity of the world where this happened has been lost to the mists of time; candidates include Coruscant, Corellia, Ossus, Utapau, and even lost worlds such as Had Abbadon and Ondos." I agree that Coruscant is one of the ancient worlds of Jedi knowledge. But I think the Jedi don't really like urban centers and/or politics. They have operations on Coruscant because they have to. That is my take anyway. And I agree that having Coruscant in the game would be a logistical nightmare to do justice to it. The way to do Coruscant is to either have a lot of good cutscenes (in other words, not really a playable world) or to have it in a more linear segment of the game (you are seperated from your ship and someone shuttles you there). You only get to explore a tiny portion of the slums. Anytime you go somewhere "important", you are flown there (could be cutscene or some sort of flying minigame). That is how such a thing could be done. Coruscant cannot be on your astrocharts, it has to be in an extremely linear segment of the game. Bottom line: * we need to see more of Coruscant (in some fashion or other). * we need to see ancient Sith AND ancient Jedi worlds. * we need a constant thread in the games (I vote for Dantooine).

well, I think we need to eventually see all the ancient Jedi worlds including Utapau and Ossus. however, Dantooine has become the "base of operations" for the Jedi. Sure, they have operations on Coruscant (and any world of political importance) but Dantooine is where they talk inside baseball and live and breathe as a community. I would like to see that continue in these games.

I do like the idea of having Dantooine as a common thread throughout these games....even if they have Coruscant, they still need to have Dantooine. Dantooine is the home of the Jedi in the ancient times. Now, I would like to see Utapau and other worlds that are of ancient interest to the Jedi. We talk a lot about Ziost and worlds of Sith interest but there are worlds of Jedi history and interest. Still, there is something nice about knowing that Dantooine (a very Earth-like planet) will be there and play a significant role. Tatooine should NEVER be a plot world again in these games....maybe a trading zone on your astro charts but never a full-blown adventure world. Tatooine was used three times in the movies.....it just doesn't seem "ancient" because of that. Nar Shadda probably should not have been used because, before the games, it first appeared in the EU timeline after the events of the movies. Nar Shadda should probably not be used again either. I would love to see Iziz as the large, urban center it really is. We only scratched the surface of it in KOTOR 2.

saw X3 today....liked it.

the original had some good material from time to time but the overall feel of it was sooo hokey and low budget. I may have to check out the new series.