Fearless_Jedi

I agree with you, I would hope they have more special abilities and such than be just an expansion of the begging classes.

Absolutely

Damn right

The moderator hopes not.........

What about a Solo or a Calrissian?

I think the references are to sort of make people feel like it was the orginal trilogy but not, so as to make those situations similar.

Vader is a slow moving hunk of half man half machine that couldn't win even if he tried. His movement is limited to much.

Hey I warned you

I dont think I understand the whole "balance" issue I thought that affected things like seeing into the future and powers like that. I dont think it really affects combat abilities and such. And well Yuuzhan Vong where pretty bad ass but alot of Jedi still died by their hands and I dont believe they ganged up on too many Jedi in the books (not sure cause I haven't read all of em) mostly it seemed like 1 on 1 battles, while Jedi in clone Wars are being outnumbered alot, or pitted against some nasty new droids or something. I think if Yuuzhan came before the Empire, the Jedi's skills with lightsaber would have decimated the warrior Ranks. Just my opinion though

Oh and as for the Ani getting beaten by Genosians and 80 year old Dooku: Firstly Anakin didn't lose, he just wasn't paying attention when that mechanical arm came up to him...other than that he whooped ass. And Dooku, is he really 80 years old.......that seems like to much, anyway I think Dooku being a Sith and his much greater experience in lightsaber combat is what helped him with that day. *************EpIII Spoiler Alert************* Not to mention only 2 years later during Ep3 he kills Dooku and Mace.

Yes lightsaber techniques where probably more tuned back in the good ole days but who is to say the old techniques where lost perhaps they where incorporated into the current fighting arts we all know and love........and who is to say the newer techniques aren't as good just that the newer technique focus on different things than the old. This is all specualative, I dont think we will ever know for sure how it all works. Another thing that just popped in my mind is that perhaps certain abilities like danger sense and the like might actually be better with newer jedi because they have been fighting peeps with guns (including sniper rifles) for 1000 years, granted dueling requires similar skills but there isn't alot of situations where 50 slashes come att you, while in Clone War 50 bolts attacking you seems apparent. Yet another thing is the difference i saber styles/forms from 2000 ago to Clone wars. If Ani and Bastila fought neither of them would know how the other would fight. Similar principles but almost completely different, anyway I would still have to go with Anakin because being the Chosen One and all he would probably have a more powerful command of the Force and more skill with a blade and even Bastilas experience could help her against a new foe she wouldn't understand. But where you get that Lukes jedi where stronger than Mace and Yoda?? Perhaps the Solo kids or Kypp Durron but those are the only exceptions....escpecially if they fight like Luke does which isn't very impressive when compared to Ep1-3 combat. And I am not so sure about the Ruusan thing cause I haven't read it yet.

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head, you where right that Anakin hadn't reached full potential while it seems Bastila probably did, I mean she has been fighting the Sith she has ever reason to reach full potential as quickly as possible.

Actually if this is between Ep2 Ani(I just thought Anikan before the fall) and KotOR Bastila then maybe it would be a draw, cause Ani's skill and Bastila's experience would cancel each other out. Then again Bastila doesn't seem to be all that good with a lightsaber......and the whining just doesn't stop....she would probably stop in the middle of the fight cause she broke a nail, or something to that effect.

Ok Nur Sab, Sorry for any comments I made that might have offended you. Wrning: Possible Spoilers Ahead Firstly your link doesn't work, but I'll take it as you say it. And my problem with the 7 forms, is as a whole, I think Vapaad and form II are neat even though they dont follow the movies very well, so I can't argue those cause they have been in books and such although the history of form II is still uncertain. All I really know is it is old, and made in response to all the lightsaber wielding baddies in the old times. Next, though what Obi said in Ep was an exageration I think the basis for me using this comment was to show that Anakin's main talent as a Jedi was the lightsaber, which cant be said about bastila even though she uses a double bladed saber which is also odd cause Star Wars database labled those as "sith" lightsabers. As far as EU goes, for me, the movies are the most cannon source followed by Books and such (EU) which are then cannon as long as they dont contradict the movies, because if you have contradicting elements....how can it be cannon even if Lucas Arts made a document that says it is....almost a contradiction in and of itself dont you think? Anyway alot of EU may be cannon but some of the stuff really is just nonsense, and when I say that I mean it just isn't Star Wars or it just doesn't seem logical, cannon or not. Now as far as cultures go, yes their arts(culture) can die down due to influences of other cultures such as westernization I cant disagree with that, and granted to keep certain skills a group of artists have to use it or lose it, either they use it and never forget , or over time it ceases to exist. Again, that is something found in the basis of psychology itself, I cant dispute it. What I can say is although after time some powers may be lost the basis for which those powers where made still exist, I mean why would the Jedi not pass on there most important stuff even if their numbers dwindled? And perhaps they didn't have the experience of a Jedi guardian during the Sith Wars, but they do practice the art of dueling (I believe that was said in the article about the 7 forms). So when Jedi such as Anakin fought during the Clone Wars where jedi fought Jedi (according to Clone Wars comics) and Jedi fought those Grievous Guards who had weapons that blocked lightsabers, then there skill in dueling is gonna improve undoubtedly but perhaps not as high as during the Sith Wars cause granted there where alot more Sith to deal with than rouge jedi and grievous guards, So they are gonna be dueling alot more often and there skills would be alittle bit better. However, Anakin, plenty of combat exp from Clone Wars, very talented with a lightsaber to the point where he actually beats Mace, second only to Yoda(Granted Obi beats him but Obi was his master and knew how Anakin fought which gave him a advantage Mace didn't have) fights Bastila who has perhaps more dueling experience but less talent/skill then maybe she could put up somewhat of a fight but in the end Anakin is gonna win, his skill is too awesome, in some EpIII footage when you see him fight he acts like he isn't even trying....and if he isn't even trying against other well trained Jedi then damn he must be good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}> I assume Vader would be out of practise for a time period until he faced Luke. He had killed almost all of the Jedi before (so he wouldn't need to train any longer) Plus he could easily handle those Imperial offices :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not to mention Vader was beaten by his son, who was barely a jedi and was not too impresive with his saber OR his force powers. He obviously was not as strong as he was when he first turned to teh Dark Side, he was out of practice and lost touch with the force MUCH LIKE THE MAIN CHAR IN K2!!!!! THis is merely a microcosm for the jedi order losing touch with the foce due to teh same circumstances! However, liek I said i beleive Anakin would be able to beat Bastilia in a fight. Bastilia is strong but she was not even as strogn as Malak and Malak was not even as strong as Revan! Revan could beat Anakin perhaps, but not Bastilia <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vader was mostly machine, he just didn't have the ability to fight like he used to.

How can a Jedi be out of practice?

So basically those things cancel eachother out.

I agree.

It is all related though. We are just two philosophers with different opinions, give us a break, we like debating this.

If we combine my idea with overuse of the force, along with that the new jedi of the prequel simply lost the powers of the jeid of the KOTOR era, then we most likely hav a very valid idea. It could be a combination of both of these. They would advance, and some ppl seem to be forgetting that not only would Anakin hav advanced between Ep2 and Ep3, but Bastila will also hav advanced between KOTOR and KOTOR2. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But Jedi serve the force and use it only when necessary, sith like the Rakata overuse it because they think the force serves them. So that wont work. And who is to say bastila lives on into KotOR 2??? I chose to kill her in KotOR. Any way I have other things to do right now (laundry) so my response to Nur's next argument will be sometime later this afternoon.

This is some fansite, nothing official. This guy probably composed list of most powerful knights acc to his own personal taste (Fisto sucks BTW). And as I know there wasn't any midichlorian chart by now. Faster Fearless I don't have all day to wait for your arguments. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is something I finally agree on.

What "valid sources"? all you did was talking about gillard. This is a valid source? I don't understand your comment. I just think that discussing with someone who doesn't even confront my argumentation and repeats all the time the same is pointless. And being sarcastic doesn't change anything . Very well, let's start with your attack on my looong post that you've ignored (that was the reason for my withdrawal) and destroy my arguments step by step like I did with yours, instead of repeating yourself endlessly. Yes "valid sources" hahaha. Anakin in EII said that he's better than yoda, but his opinion doesn't matter. Now you're lying. Official EU states so. This is as official as 7 forms. Unless you're to dumb to understand this The only bunch of crap is you, if you're so unintelligent to ignore Lucasfilm official document about EU that I'm afraid makes forms, and all stuff canon. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you use those elementary reading skills you will find that I did attack all partially valid points you made in your post, the rest where hourse crap. And EU is based off the movies and the movies are the cannon source I use, being so the movies are more cannon because GL created em. Thus if something contradicts what is in the movie then that something is moot. Simple as that. Like I said about sources I did not make links but I have read the article about the forms, I have read the EU books, I have seen the movies, I have researched and found that Gillard said the 7 forms where wrong, and since he is the authority on the combat in movies and movies override EU then I go with Gillard. And if you want links then u ask for em, otherwise you can kiss my ass. And about the official document, I wouldn't mind reading that cause I am sure you just didn't understand the simple wording in it so please give me a link. And if you dont have one then your point is complete crap. And why not doing a better job confronting my argument cause you are the one who has said EU a thousand times with no reference to an actual book/magaizine/or anything. Oh and Obi-Wan, in EP2, said Anakin "could" be better than Yoda with more practice, that is what I was pointing out, not what anakin thinks. So go screw yourself cause i aint no lier, and saying such breaches the contract you made when you registered with these forums. Defamation of charcter is not allowed. And even if EU says something, it can still be wrong, if you believed everything you heard would you not find contradictions. What EU says about the tiemline thing is crap, no civilization that has stood for "thousands of years" (quote, Palpatine Ep2) progresses backward. Quote: Not quite. We know that every art and culture has it's growths and falls that are convertible. Culture's only have falls when the civilization is taken over or destroyed, that never happened to the jedi or the republic from KotOR to Clone Wars. Thus how an art could progress backward when the only way to go is forward is beyond me. Now possibly when there numbers dwindle on that of extiction like TSL and ANH something is lost but that something isn't of great value cause both times there was someone who passed on their knowledge to keep the art going.....and in ANH there where more Jedi alive than there was thought to be and possibly that will be the same with TSL.

Still, logically they would advance there art like any craftsman would.

If the whole, Old Jedi where more powerful that newer jedi then perhaps Bastila could win but I doubt that theory very much. And although Sentinels have more force powers, all Anakin needs is Immunity and he would be protected from most of them, even if he didn't have it Bastila's lack of combat ability would be her undoing because she couldn't take off enough HP while poor Ani was frozen, not to mention when Anakin does attack Bastilas defense would be poor and thus more hp would be removed. If you look at the simple fact that yes Bastila was more powerful than most padawans and knights when she was a padawan then you would have to look and see and notice that Anakin was more powerful than most masters (including Windu, based off the spoiler) when he was a Knight. So I am still gonna have to go with Anakin, even though they both possess a similar mediclorien count. He has more experience being a knight and that alone gives him the win. Also, I notice Nur replying so I will be with him in a minute.

Like I said before, simple evolution would state that they understood more and training would get better so I have trouble believing that. And the Rakata actually did overuse the Force I mean there technology could only be used with the force, they where like ancient dark jedi.... Normal Jedi believe in harmony with the force and to follow its will(they serve the force), while dark jedi/sith believe it is a tool they use for there own benefit thus the Force serves them.....and I suppose using the force in such a way leads to what happens to the Rakata. Wrote this before saw Kotor Fans response