Cantousent

Curse you, Raithe, I didn't even pay attention until you brought it up and now I keep checking. lol In other news, Old World Blues has been a lot of fun. I have no idea how far I am from finishing, but i can say that there are few really awesome weapons. I especially like the Elijah (or whatever his name is) LAER. That thing puts mobs the hell DOWN. I also like Chistine's (ditto) silenced sniper solution. Great stuff. So good, in fact, that I think I can get to bed before three am tonight and without drinking a couple of bottles of wine first. lol Damn, this DLC is actually pretty good stuff!

lol Vol was quoting something I said, but you and I obviously share a real love for the Microprose title. I remember when Microprose was da bomb. Anyhow, Darklands was a superb game, but far from perfect. For one thing, it was buggy as hell. For another, the party spent a lot of time recovering from royal ass stompings, which is why I get frustrated by the 'it will be dumbed down or easy' arguments. The innovation of banking houses was great, but I can see it becoming confusing for some players. Still, it was a great game. I haven't played it in... fifteen, twenty years? I can't even remember when it came out. ...But I do wish that I could play it again. I really liked that, while you recovered, party members could earn money or improve skills.

Okay. Fair enough. I think you've got a point, which is why I think it's silly to worry about this system being too easy or hard until we can play with it first hand.

Having played Darklands, I can attest to this. The combat in Darklands was far less forgiving than Dungeons and Dragons. I mean, folks could at least wait to see how the system works before making assumptions about it. I have played a system quite similar to this before, as Curry clearly has also, and it will be a lot harder than folks realize.

That's simply untrue. If you have three stamina and you're taken to zero, you fall unconcious and can be revived, even in combat. If you have three health and you're taken to zero, you're either maimed (the specifics of which are still unclear) or dead. Stamina is not a shield for health. It is a separate stat altogether. It is, from what I can tell, depleted independently. It makes combat more complicated, but it also really has a profound impact on resting.

Brother, I won't complain at all about new goodies. :Cant's huge grin icon:

I don't know, Vol. Seems to me that 3.x pretty much made DnD a lot easier to heal. There were the usual potions and whatnot, but also automatic conversion to cure spells and the like. I mean, it doesn't sound necessarily that different in PE in regards to healing except that healing spells in PE don't actually 'heal' so much as bolster you. I'm telling you right now, the system actually has the potential for being a hell of a lot uglier than just straight hit points. That's my take. I guess we'll have to wait until we get our hands on the game and can test everything.

I hope not. It would appear to be stingy and grasping to post a new stretch goal this late in the game. A huge number of people here are undoubtedly pledged to the utmost they can afford and they've come through pretty damned well. It's kind of like the documentary thing that Obsidz decided to do with their own funds without using it as a stretch goal. It's a lot more classy to let everyone end on the high note of achieving what so many folks thought was out of reach. Now, on the other hand, they could put up more add-ons. I wouldn't pledge more just for a new stretch goal, but I could maybe purchase an add-on or two. I think I'm pretty much pledged out, but I did drop another $20 just for the cards because I thought they were so cool. I think I read that it was Scott E's idea, and I have to say that they look pretty spiffy. ...And they'll make a great little gift for someone who likes to play card games also. Something like that could maybe get more cash out of folks.

I honestly believe, which is to say that I've read the description and examples Sawyer gave us, that the combat mechanic will be so intuitive once folks start using it that most of the grief will fade away. Now, I will say that some of the complaints that folks have about it will remain, not the easy/hard arguments, but the general mechanic arguments. The fact is, in DnD, you could spam the hell out of heal spells. In this case, you can spam stamina heal spells, but you *can't* spam health healing spells, and for that reason combat will have the potential to be a hell of a lot more brutal and securing places for safe resting will be a major strategic concern.

No, Gatt. You can lose health and stamina at the same time. You just lose stamina more easily than actual health. You also regain stamina more quickly than health, but the big dfiference is that magic can restore stamina far far better than restoring actual health. ...and there isn't any res that we know of.

You can't, in one breath, say that combat is too hard and then, almost in the same breath, say that the game isn't combat centered. I prefer objective oriented xp, but my point is that the way xp is doled out will not change how combat works. I think it's quite likely I misunderstood Darkmoon, for which I'll beg pardon. I actually think there's less room to attack the game on the grounds that it is less tactical when the combat is such a central part of the design, but that's just my take. It's certainly not DnD.

That just sucks, man. I know that pancreatitis is sometimes one of those things that hospitals kind of treat as some sort of idiomatic oddity. They treat the symptoms and just hope it doesn't happen again. It's good that you're willing to find a new doctor if you aren't getting answers. I will say from experience that you might have to be assertive yourself, Hurlshot. Demand answers and make a bit of noise.

I'm not going to try to convince anyone to reduce his pledge, so keep in mind that I'm not saying that in response to you, but if you truly feel that you won't enjoy the game as much, you have the right to reduce your pledge. However, where the hell did you see that the game would be anti-combat? Really? The way experience is doled out to the player has absolutely nothing to do with how much or little the game is combat oriented. It's simply misguided to equate objective oriented xp with a less combat oriented game. In fact, I think the combat has received the most attention so far and they're creating a game that is clearly intended to combat centered. The story will still be great, I'm sure, but the combat is the focus at this moment. They've already said that you won't be able to complete the game without at least some combat, for instance. This idea of Obsidz downplaying combat is a red herring.

I'm glad you guys have kept this thread going. I've been enjoying it when I get the chance to skim. I think it's virtually certain that we're going to get that $3.5M stretch goal.

I've been doing Old World Blues. I think that's what it's called. Anyhow, it's interesting. I think I'm getting close to being done. I'll find out tonight, I guess.

Hey, why don't folks lay off Monte for a bit. Heaven knows I don't want to end up in the middle of a shooting match, but he's just defending his favored style of play, which is exactly why these boards are here. Argue against his damned points and not his person. I just hope that Sawyer follows what he's been saying for years now, that xp should be doled out by objective.

I don't see why the experience system draws such toxic feelings from folks. I mean, I say I really hate the xp for everything scheme, I guess I don't really *hate* it. However, to reiterate, I want to make sure I can play a good guy who doesn't sound like Dudley Do-rRight of the mounties. ...And I want folks who want to play a good guy who *does* sound like dudley to have that chance. I want folks who want to play a bad-ass who doesn't twirl his moustache like Snidely Whiplash to be able. I want folks who want to play Snidley Whiplash to have a moustache and twirl it.

Feargus answered a question regarding xp a while back by saying that kill (and everything else) experience was in the mix. Like Sawyer says, they're still arguing about this stuff in some smoke filled back room over boiler makers and snifters of brandy. EDIT: Dude, Jasade, have a glass of wine a deep breath, man.

As we argue this, the project has amassed $3,277,993 on Kickstarter.

How's this for a solution? They shouldn't tell you each time you gain experience and only use an experience bar (with no attending numbers) to show how far you've progressed to the next level. If folks just forgot about the experience and just experienced the game, there wouldn't be a problem in the first place. For my part, I hate the slippery slope of xp for anything and every action.

The objective oriented approach is far more practical from a design standpoint than kill xp that then gets kvetched into every action-xp.

Okay, I'm all for the stamina/health thing. Sounds great and I'm sure it will be intuitive. I'll live with whatever the devs do with the experience reward issue. Those aren't really big deals for me. Instead, I want to ask about an issue that I actually care about quite a bit, and that's our actions. I agree that the devs should put things out there and let us decide for ourselves whether they're good or evil. Of course, the world isn't a vacuum, so the NPCs should also give us their opinions about our actions. Fair enough. I make the PC do something I think is good, the townsfolk tell me it's evil, and then I can reaffirm, reassess, or ignore their opinions. Of course, I might have to react to their opinions if they then refuse to open their shops to me or even come after me with pitchforks and fiery brands. The thing is, I know Obsidian can make great options for those folks who want to play a real bastard. I also know they can create options for folks who want to be good decent citizens of the game world. However, I seem to see most folks clamoring for more opportunities to be 'evil,' or other folks who want there to be no such thing as good or evil in the game. The thing is, the devs will still have to put in options that range from absolute self-interest to heroic selflessness. Call it good or evil. Call it nice guy or jerk. Call it whatever, there *will* be good and evil options in the game. I just want to make sure that everything isn't all about currying favor with the evil-option folks. I want options to be a decent person in the game world that don't follow the lawful stupid idea of decency. I actually want most of the story to convey the moral uncertainty that is part and parcel of human interaction. I've been saying that for a long time, but I get the impression that a lot of folks want to address the past failings of previous games to depict the nuances of how we view the rightness or wrongness of our actions by saying that nothing is right or wrong at all. That's not how anyone I personally know acts in real life. There is no-one who can't usually determine whether one action would be better than another, and typically for moral reasons. I want shades of grey like other folks, but I also want some pitch black and some blinding white every now and then. I'm perfectly happy if the devs leave it up to the players to duke it out whether the 'pitch black' or the 'blinding white' option is really 'good.'

I despise incidently (or whatever catchy term folks use these days) experience rewards. I hate picking the lock with a bobby pin, hacking the terminal, and finding the key all in order to get experience for doing the same damned thing. Objective oriented experience is absolutely superior.

Is this the Darklands thing going? I seem to recall something along the lines of health and stamina in that game. I also remember that you could run out of stamina without actually taking any hit. It's been a loooong time, but I recall that you used stamina for actions. Is stamina strictly for showing damage? Will abilities and the like use stamina? The health stamina thing sounds a lot more complicated than it will be in gameplay, Monte. I'm absolutely convinced of that. It's just showing two types of damage. I would think of it as subdual damage and lethal damage counted separately rather than together.

...And I take it that Vol knows what he's talking about more than I do. :Cant's tip of the hat icon: One way or the other, I don't think they'll renege on their promises.