hawk

If we were to play as Zayne, it will mean you are an allready established character. You are a Jedi Sentinel, you are a male, you have a preselected face. That's far to restrictive. @Omelette, thank you for your comments.

Perhaps. I write plotlines myself now and then. What I would advise you is that you do keep Revan and the Exile in the game. Killing them off is to cheap and also, you should be able to tell the game who Revan and the Exile were in terms of Gender / Alignment. You should also be able to select their faces. Those are top priorities. Furthermore, your should think about what happened to the party members of Revan and the Exile. Do the party members of the Exile form a new Jedi Council? What if the Exile is DS? I see that you start off as a Jedi on a refugee ship. It's good that you do have a lightsaber at the start. What I wonder, maybe you will explain it later but how did you stay undetected during say, the Shadow War. Why weren't you discovered by Darth Sion / Nihilus or Kreia? Hard task? No, it can all be done. And before you wonder if it is difficult to select a face for Revan and the Exile in game, consider that you were able to select the model and color of your lightsaber in Kotor II before you stab it in the stone on Coruscant. A face for Revan and the Exile is exactly the same, they are just game objects.

Like Anakin or Luke Skywalker, that's also been done before isn't it.

Every jedi dead or in hiding which means we could see some Jedi in Kotor III we have seen before.

Why would that be hard? "Revan's" faces were different then "Exile's" faces and the new character could have a new set of faces as well. Other then that, I don't see the problem when you pick the same face as your Revan / Exile. In both games you could also see faces coming back all the time. Why would it be a problem?

Yeah, I don't really know why I didn't think about this sooner. We could choose how the Exile's lightsaber looked so why shouldn't we be abl;e to select a face for Revan and the Exile. Essentially, it is the same thing. A face or the model and color of the lightsaber? For a game, they are the same thing: they are objects! This also menas that in a possible Kotor III plot Revan and the Exile doesn't necessarily have to fall to the DS in order to wear a mask which makes it easier for the developers, they just have to include some dialogue and maybe a screen where you could select a face. As for clothing? I think we can assume they both wear some customary robes. Perhaps different robes if they are DS or LS.

Well Architect, It is fortunate that I am here and I am able to provide a good and serious answer as you know you can expect from me. You have made some very good points as to why TSL was better then Kotor in your opinion. After reading your, some would say, long post it got me thinking and now I know you are right. Obsidian has made a very good storyline with a different approach then the common SW storyline which Kotor represented. But because Kotor has: 1) More detailed characters in which you feel know all about in the end 2) Gives a "finished" feeling. Not much cut content. 3) Has a revelation some don't expect, others did. For myself, I can tell you that Kotor was the first RPG I ever played in my life so I didn't know about it. I just thought I was someone important and that because all main characters are always the most powerful beings I didn't really think about my own character. All of a sudden, I was Revan. Well, I know what to expect from a storyline driven RPG now. 4) Maybe Revan is somehow a better PC then the Exile. Why this is? Perhaps because he was the Dark Lord of the Sith? Maybe because he is the first one who took action in the Mandalorian wars while the Exile only followed him? I don't know. Maybe we could explore that further? Who is the favourite PC of boith games? Revan or the Exile and off course, why? Simple answers enough on this forum. Also, I think Kotor might also be overrated because, let's face it, Kotor was the first Star Wars RPG everyone played. When another Kotor comes in, you know, everyone expects it to be better then no. 1. And then someone finds lot's of bugs, plotholes. everything which is why it was turned down by most of the players. They expected that you could do much more evil acts, Obsidian promised that, but what is the most evil act in Kotor II? Playing DS in Kotor II is IMO playing as a thug. No, I expected to convince people that you did the right thing while it was completely evil. In the end, Kotor II could have been much better then Kotor I if it had fewer plotholes, bugs etc. etc. which we may blame to Lucasarts, we will hopefully see if we are right to blame them. Hopefully Kotor III can be made with a less tight time scedule. Other then that, you know I am working on a possible plot for Kotor III which I think you will agree on is at least until now my best plot I made so far. Hopefully some more people will post on this thread with explanations as to why TSL or Kotor is better in their opinion and possibly what course of action Kotor III should take which could also maybe help me with my own Kotor III plot. I think you should also post this thread on the Lucasforum as I am sure people will probably be interested as well.

I hope you are right and true, it would be better if we could select their faces. Edit: Actually, I just remembered something. In Kotor II we were able to select the Exile's lightsaber type and color. Now, how different is it to select a face? Not a big difference IMO

Hi JohnJay, Welcome to the Obsidian forum. I guess it had been mentioned before but no worries, your idea's are good. What also had been mentioned before is that we probably wast our time on this thread since most of us believe the developers aren't reading this thread and we also never recorded one posting on it but sure, we do hope we are wrong and sometimes we just hope we are right. I mean, some forummers come with IMO ridiculous idea's like they want to play as a non jedi. Well, I guess they haven't played Jedi outcast which clearly showed that a non jedi simply doesn't stand a chance against a Sith lord. Other proof of that is found in The Empire Strikes Back. As if Han Solo is a match for Darth Vader. Anyway, I haven't posted on this thread for some time but I guess it wouldn't hurt to make a few points. For storyline purposes I think it would be wise that we go a new main character who, unlike Revan and the Exile, somehow has the ability to destroy the True Sith. It is important because the main character, in every game (and I expect Kotor III not to be any different to that) is the most important character of that game because you are the one controling him/her. To many they would think this person to be more powerful then Revan / the Exile. That however doesn't have to be the case. Maybe the Sith have some techniques in the Force which allows them to defeat / turn into ally / demoralize stronger opponents, who knows? And who knows, our new main character may be able to resist or is immune to this technique the Sith have. Okay, this may be one strategy. Others have come up with the plan that Revan went into the Unknown regions on his own because he wanted to create a Civil War among the Sith, or perhaps let the Sith believe Revan was the Sithari who would according to Sith legend destroy the Sith to let them become more powerful. All good idea's IMO. We just have to wait what the developers will come up with. For the rest of the game, I would like to see us being able to: 1) Like in Kotor II be able to say what Revan was in Kotor I in terms of gender and alignment being the most important. Optionals include face selection, lightsaber selection etc.. The same goes for the Exile. Some have argued we should have both Revan and the Exile fall to the Dark side so Revan can wear his old mask yet while the Exile could wear Nihilus's mask. It would do, but I don't think we should underestimate the knowledge and power of the developers who are able to make different appearances the way we like it. Maybe I am not to demanding and would accept fixed male and female faces of both Revan and the Exile. A fixed alignment and gender however, that is a no go and would make me mad. Why? because there are people (including myself) who are able to write a story which makes is possible to play the game without going Canon alignment and gender 2) In terms of gameplay I think it would be okay if we have certain improvements like: A) Being able to chose your own species. B) Being able to truely create your own lightsaber. I think Kotor II failed in this since you had to complete a few quests and really, how would people like Lorso or Husseff or Zherron come in the possession of Lightsaber parts. I think SW Galaxies did a good job with it. You had to find and harvest raw materials and from these materials create your own lightsaber. The quality of the materials defined how powerful the lightsaber would be. Another option would be to customize the style of the lightsaber with each it's own unique abilities but IMO that isn't a requirement but certainly a good upgrade. C) Better graphics might suit the new gamers well but I think if Kotor III needs to be done to quick, like Kotor II, it isn't a necessary upgrade.

Nice topic Dawuss

Well Master pendark, that's certainly an interesting theory and one of the best I have ever read. How I see Revan and the Exile? They do have their similarities but they are also each others opposites. I think the Exile and Revan are just as powerful. But here it is: Revan is the "Heart of the Force" which I think means he is the one who provides the force to others, making them stronger which could explain why all his party members also became so powerful in a matter of months, Yes I am talking a bit about the D-20 system here. The Exile is the "Death of the Force" which I think means she is becoming powerful since she is leaching the force from other force sensitives, which should mean that the Exiles party members should become less powerful but this isn't the case. Why? I think it is because the Exile mostly feeds on death as you see when a DS exile kills a Jedi master. Now, who thinks that Revan is maybe an ancestor of Darth Plageuis? As "Heart of the Force" he might be able to save others from death. The common things between the Exile and Revan? They both attract other people, they are both very good leaders, they can both solve planet or even galaxy size problems. This is because what they represent. How did we came to this discussion, O yes, Bastilla's post. Well, it could be that Kreia is responsible for that but I sincerely hope not. Why? Because it could mean that the True Sith don't really exist and I just hope Kotor III woul be in a war scenario, not one to solve a mistery and being attacked by some Assassins like in Kotor II.

No, first person is not going to happen. You may like it, as do I but not for Kotor. The system Kotor is using is not meant for action. It's meant for interaction, and with interaction party members are needed. And with party members, it will be third person which I guess isn't bad. And I believe as well that Kotor III will be made. I believe I have read somewhere that Lucasarts wanted to bring out 2 Star Wars games each year. This year, I believe they brought out Battlefront II, Empire at War and Lego Star Wars II perhaps, I don't know and frankly I don't really care. I don't like to spend any more time with playing games just because they are Star Wars. Also, I think that I have seen enough of those games set in the so well known time period in the SW Universe. Say about 50 BBY till 50 ABY. And what Plano Skywalker said, I guess that will be all right, allthough I guess that should mean that the story of Revan and the Exile needs to be closed of in Kotor III. Then we might have a Kotor IV, V, VI maybe even until Kotor X or so which is good. That means we can play these games until we all retire, who knows. But first, I think we should be patient. Now that Lucasarts probably studied the Two Sith rule, they are going to use it. The Two games rule, a rule practised by LA Sith Lord Darth Ward :D (Jim Ward). Hmm, Darth Ward, it doesn't even sound bad...... So maybe if we are lucky 2007 or otherwise 2008 will be the next Kotor. I really don't think thay simply forgot that they did make a game of the year that was Star Wars: Knights of the old republic. And face it, if they only cared about money, they could simply make simple mindless action games and then suddenly, people don't want to play those SW games any longer. Why? Because they say they are all the same.

You know, I think Kotor I made a bad character with Juhani. I think it is one of my favorite species but they made her way to whiny. I would love to get a really strong Cathar warrior in Kotor III! How about a DS Cathar Jedi Guardian!

good old George doesn't even know what to do with all his millions of dollars but you are right Lord Satasn. If Obsidian could only.... develop it without permission from Lucasarts. Now that would have been great don't you think? They would have: 1) Enough time to make the proper game. 2) They would make huge Profitssss, O wait that was the Teladi species from the X space games.

Luke looks a bit young in the force ghost doesn't he? But yeah, so looks Anakin in his force ghost at the end of ROTJ. Very, very stupid to set Hayden christensen there. The original man was much, much better. And I defenitely hope there will be an end indeed to the Skywalker / Solo period. They just need to make Kotor III and then start writing, making movies / television series etc. etc. in the Kotor era.

I guess it's not that easy is it? The Jedi order is seriously wounded after Kotor II and so is the Sith who served Revan and Malak. That leaves only the True Sith that we don't really know about what they are and how strong they are. And then, there is a reason why Luke Skywalker didn't think about rebuilding a Jedi order while the empire was still strong. It would off course draw attention to them. And he choose to build a Jedi academy on Yavin IV. If he wanted more protection he could have chosen to build it on Coruscant but he didn't. See, rebuilding a Jedi Order is more then just building an academy, select students, teach them the ways of the force, how dangerous the dark side is, learn them history etc. etc..

Thanks! And when it is all one engine, it doesn't really matter when you release the game. I can remember that I bought years ago an X-wing game (one of the good titles of Lucasarts) with better graphics and played it again. How about the ability to play Kotor I with the workbench and Lab station of Kotor II. Influence maybe. It can all be done, even with the existing voice samples I think. I and I think a lot of others here would love to play Kotor I with the Kotor II improvements. Besides, if Lucasarts needs to come up with something which sells very well they should come up with idea's like this I think.

How would it be like if you could buy a Kotor Gold edition featuring Kotor I and II with improved graphics and especially Kotor II with more content and a Kotor III which registers your previous Revan and Exile, so you could see the same characters in the third game which you created by playing the first two games. And off course Kotor III could simply not be run completely seperate. How about that.

And don't you forget that Rukil is a Sith Lord!! If Revan was LS and (s)he brought the journals to Rukil, the 100 year old man would simply lead his "people" to a hell worse then the Rakghoul infested places we could walk in. The Promised Land is simply a myth to give the people some false impression of hope, as Carth suggests. For the ones who don't believe Rukil to be a Sith lord, how come a 100 year old man can run so fast when you give the journals to Igear. And then the name "the Promised Land"?

To buy TSL To Buy Kotor 1 Hmm, Both games No problem to buy the game. Only problems are shipment costs and waiting till it gets to you.

Well, for one thing, you can only truely understand ROTS if you have watched and understood all of the other movies. I found out that several friends and my mother didn't understand what ROTS was all about. What Sith and Jedi are and this Order 66. Two point I don't like in ROTS is that: A) Mace Windu was killed in a way it could only fit in a true horror movie, not in a SW film. It would have been better if Anakin would go for Windu's head, succeed and he would fall down in stead of this absolutely horrible dead. B) How is this gravity on Grievous's battleship working in space? If a ship "dives" in space, no one should notice because it is "space" without gravity right?

The Sith always see the Jedi as a threat. When they wiped out the Jedi order their overconfidence became their weakness. Surely the empire didn't see little Ewoks as a threat. They only saw a powerful jedi named Luke Skywalker as a threat. He was able to blow up a death star. And the empire powerful? Yes, sure. But their stormtroopers were also very stupid you know.

How about a theory that the True Sith are not really the remnants of Ludo Kressh's followers. Now then, when Revan's memories returned he remembered that during the Mandalorian wars he went in search of the cause of this war and found something in the unknown regions. This something was a very powerful Sith lord who really 'awakened' when Exar Kun was defeated and 'the currents of the force in republic space' turned to one of peace and light. Because this 'creature' which, let's go can be called a Sithari despised peace and light awakened and found it's first ally in Mandalore (the one before Canderous) who was the leader of the Mandalorians during the wars he started. This Mandalore might be a force sensitive which explains why he could hear the Sithari's call. Anyway, Mandalore was corrupted to the dark side during the Mandalorian wars and launched his attack against the Republic. The Sithari, capable of resting in some sort of hybernation was put to rest as a result of conflict / war and the dark side which holds sway during the wars. From the Mandalorian Wars came the Jedi Civil War followed by the Kotor II shadow war. All this time, the Sithari, his space in the unknown regions and the ones who were allied (or more like enslaved) by the dark force energy which surrounds this 'creature' were at piece because of this ongoing conflict and had no intention of invading republic space. They might be in the same sort of hybernation as their leader. Revan remembered what had happened during his scouting mission in these True Sith regions. The first time he went there(during the Mandalorian wars), he may be accompanied by some of his friends or followers who, overwhelmed by the Dark force energy, way way richer and seductive then what we saw in Freedon Nadd's and Ludo Kresshes tomb, corrupted his friends who turned on each other and Revan himself. Revan, who of course was the most powerful of them was the only survivor of that ship and collected some data then and trough the force found out what could awake these "True sith" creatures, the ones enslaved by the Sithari. These true Sith we must battle in Kotor III would awaken by two things: When they are threatened, or when they feel that the force turns to harmony and peace. Now, I am not suggesting that these True Sith creatures are animals, no off course not. No, I think they are a force sensitive species who could live for a very, very long time, because of their hybernation capabilities and which are very strong. Remember, they are not human so who knows what they are capable of or what they know about the force. I think they make a good bad guy this way. If the True Sith are according to my specifications it would provide a reason why: 1) Revan went into the unknown regions himself (He knew that his friends would turn on him and each other). That's why he took only droids with him since they couldn't be corrupted. I also think that Revan could be more resistant to the Dark force energies in the unknown regions. The exile is as we know also more resistant to this which is the reason why T3 went in search for the Exile. 2) Revan started the Jedi Civil war. He would know if he didn't, the True sith would awake and either corrupt or wipe out the Republic. 3) Why these True Sith didn't attack the republic. Because the wars happened and the currents of the force were one of darkness, war and conflict. 4) Why Revan would need a huge army to defeat the True Sith because the Sithari would have corrupted / enslaved thousands which the Republic couldn't defeat About what happened to Revan in the unknown regions you could speculate many things. I think Revan somehow failed in his mission to either destroy the Sithari and with it the source of the dark power (LS) or claim the power for himself (DS). And I think this would be our job to finish what Revan failed in Kotor III. You could off course play as Revan himself but I think this would be a short game and I am no big fan of that idea. No, better start a new character who I think would be best suited as a character who is more or perhaps completely resistant to the corruption of the dark power in the unknown regions. This could be done perhaps if our new character: 1) Comes from a certain planet 2) Learned a special technique for this resistance / immunity 3) Is someone who is cloned perhaps 4) Any other idea, who knows Remember that Resistance or immunity doesn't mean you don't have a choice.

Actually, Bringing back Revan and the Exile in the way you want them to be might be easier then you think. I am about to write a new storyline idea in which such is quiet possible. Sorry, I am not going to just post it here as I am sure some will hate it and others just love it but off course, when I am ready (in perhaps a month, maybe less, maybe more) I could PM it to anyone interested. The Architect is off course allready on this list.

Hi Architect, You might remember that there are some force sensitive factions with robes/armor we find in Kotor II: Jal Shey Matakui Baran Do Maybe one or more of those could be tied into the plot as some grey Force sensitives.