KingofThieves

Good idea. I'm doing the same right now, and I'm going to keep playing it until I like it, dammit.

I liked the ending quite a bit myself. I have never had a problem with a good open ending and I found this one to be suitable. That said: I would have liked that the exile had some closure with the crew about their journey together though. I think their should have been time alloted for this before the ebonhawk collapsed on Malachor. I felt cheated about this actually. And although I LIKED the ending, in no way did I find it emotionally satisfying. And I also agree with everything you said about KotOR II having all the proper elements of a good story. It did. What it lacked, to me, was the EMOTION of one. Where did Obsidian stash my hope anyway? I'm going to need that back.

It was not my intention to derail the thread, White. My apologies. Just trying to point you in the direction of some influences that may have had a direct effect on the way of Nihilus.

Make no mistake, NOTHING owns my soul. White: About why the player didn't have access to any translation of Nihilus: Simply put: It's not necessary. Even though you can't understand what he's saying, you KNOW what he's getting at. And that makes the translation kind of irrelevant. Leaving his words to the imagination adds to the style, and does so without taking much away from the words (which there are plenty of in this game anyway). You KNOW he's going after the exile. So why translate that when it might actually take away an element, a dynamic- rather than add something new?

I wonder what may have been your influence for going after those sound files... Were you thinking of "performing an exorcism," maybe? :D I also LOVE how Nihilus speaks in an almost lyrical low-pitched growl. He sounds just like the terrible death metal vocalists who MAY have influenced his style.

I never said it was pretentious, White. There's NOTHING self-important about this game, and there are definately no signs of the over-indulgence of self importance. And that just may be why it does not feel right to me, who knows?... This is Star Wars! Yet it does not reek of the cheese!... I think I like this exposition of the game actually, so please don't think I'm complaining about it. I'm just wondering about this myself... Frankly, I don't think the game found it's center. It looked inside and was empty. Hardy Boys = Deja Vu You joke re-hasher! :D At least these "Hardy Boys" stories build to sensible conclusions, man. :D Especially the ones that are written by writers who seek truth in their words. Dashiell Hammett, Elmore Leonard. GREAT WRITERS.

Dialogue: Oh, it's abstract all right, I'll give you that... But if it's driven then it's geared toward nothing. Story: I like Kreia as a character, but Kreia as the big bad: Why is that again? Oh, that's right, because they needed another big bad. And she fit the profile. She is your teacher, but she is also your hunter. It's irony. Wanna know the big secret of the plotline? The big surprise is there is no surprise. That's the secret. It's irony... Alot of irony going on here. Here's something to think about for you, White... The Sith Lords is a murder mystery. About who killed the force. When the force hasn't even really been killed. That's the story- dead to rights. It's a paradox, a thinly-veiled attempt to make mainstream themes seem more mysterious. And it's kinda dodgy writing seeing as the force was never in any real danger of dying. Skilled writing, but dodgy.

Karma: Yeah, I think I may have misintrepreted your last paragraph there. :"> But I think I'm caught up to you now. :D Some of your last post had to do with the influencing system... The influencing system was great, nice little touch. But did it really add anything new to the game character-wise that wasn't there in the first? The characters really just seem to question your actions because they think they might want to be who you are. Or because they despise what you represent. You become either a rock star or a devil to them, or both, depending on your alignment. And that's really not much different than the way it was in the first game, now is it? They just turned it into a gimic here you can use to gain access to new dialogues and classes. It's nice, but it doesn't drive their characters any further out into the forefront, doesn't give them any new dimension. It just makes them depend on you more. And good characters stand on their own. I appreciate all the extra interaction between the teammates and the world they are on, but mostly, I prefer that my teammates entertain me, the player. Tell me a good story, a joke. Tell me what you're about as a PERSON and maybe I'll click on you to talk to again. The characters of this game acheived that, but to nowhere near the degree of temperature or originality they did in the first game. If you truly look at the amount of entertainment the first crew provided, and then compare it to the second, does it all add up for you? If so, cool. Glad you liked it more than the first. It just didn't do it for me. To ME the plot and the characters just felt hollow, empty and lost... As I suspect it was supposed to feel this way, that's probably a compliment. They might have been like cardboard cut-outs in the original, but they were a crew with fire and soul, and they found a purpose. And this game lacked that. SOUL. HEART. FIRE. PURPOSE.

Anakin: Ten more minutes of Nickelodeon and then it's time for bed! Karma: You raise an interesting point by mentioning that the overall maturity level of the writing in KotOR II is far superior to that of the first game. It is. But does the maturity level- more specifically the subject matter, and how it is dealt with- REALLY make for better writing? A more compelling story? Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on the story. Depends on how it is handled. Obsidian did a good job, but I think it's a tad below the original overall, and in video games this is unacceptable. Unlike movies, video game sequels are expected to surpass the original. Obsidian made a valiant attempt, but it just feels wrong to me. Honestly, I think I'm most critical of it's heart. It just feels wrong. Empty.

Ah, yesss. shoddy Please forgive my Canadian. Errr- I mean, misspell. And I kind of liked the writing as well, but I'm not having much in the way of bug issues with my game, so ALL of the little smidgeons of story that just don't sit right with me are eating away at my skull. I cannot pretend indifference when it's so plain and simple: the quality in writing is far beneath that of the first game.

Witch hunt: I don't think the innuendo of social commentary by using that brash line was completely lost on you. So let's just move on. Lest we anger the powers that be. Feargus: To lay blame on Feargus would be a moot point, because he in turn would just lay blame unto Chris Avellone- and we'd be right back where I pointed you. Whether analogies have a place on a forum or not, they're fun stuff, so here's another one: "You can't look down on a giant." :D See, it's like this, Feargus is Chris's boss, he put Chris in charge of the design of this project. Hence: If you have a question as to why the writing on this project was shotty you need to ask him... E-mail them both, if you like. Chris would likely be the one capable of giving you a more detailed response. He IS the guy in the trenches with the other soldiers, eh. (another analogy about writers- OMG!) Whereas Feargus is the general calling the shots from behind the scenes.

First: The term "witch hunt" has developed over time to be nothing more than a slang term for the process of finding blame. Since you still seem to speak mid-evil, I thought I'd point that out to you, just in case you do not realize the year is 2005. Ya never know. " Next: I understand why you'd like to blame the writing staff, or, to be more accurate, "the good writers", but the fact is... Because of the politics of business the team atmosphere on a project- any project, not just KotOR II- can't always turn out to be the dream team you might want it to be. And when it's not- things can get ugly. It is the project leads sole job- no, scratch that- responsibility to make sure that his project perserveres. Feargus was not the project lead, it's his job- as boss of the company- to tell the project lead what he wants, and then it's the project leads job to see this through for him. It is the project lead who assures quality in writing, or fails at that task. To offer you an analogy: You can't blame the money, Gromnir, only the person who handles it. And as far as Obsidian is concerned, Feargus is the money. Personally, I think we're both in the same boat. We both like the game, but have been left wondering why, with the amount of good quality writing they did have in the game, they would allow no small amount of shotty writing to slip through the cracks? My guess, "politics" got in the way. When things go awry on a project the best people can do tends to be a bit less than what it can be when a project feels right. So if you're wondering why the writing wasn't up to snuff, ask Chris Avellone. Ya never know, he just might tell you.

Somebody posted a fairly comprehensive influence guide over on the spoilers forum, so let me defer you to that. http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=26579

Gromnir: Ahh, yes, the witch-hunt has begun. Who, of the hundreds of people who worked on this game, should we point the blame at? Answer. The project lead. It's always the project lead. No matter what medium of entertainment. Didn't like a movie. Well, it's the director's fault. Didn't like the last episode of your favorite television show? Well, it's the executive producer's fault. Didn't like KotOR II? Well, point your finger at Chris Avellone and say, "You little witch. I should burn you." Whether he's a good writer or not is a moot point (and subject to scrutiny), but if you didn't like the game, there's where you need to point your finger.

You need to be a Level 15. And I think you need to be pinnacled in your alignment, as well.

You do (need mastery).

I think the way they did it was females get stuck with somebody else who isn't available until later on.

Just pretend you're subtly using the force to make her really really itchy. That way you've been manipulating her into an irritable, old, long-winded wind-bag (doubly so, since she only has one hand to scratch at it) all along. And she's just under the impression that she's of some true worth to your journey.

Are you talking about that room where the apparition of Kreia tests your loyalty? If so then it's probably not a bug. I think you have to play through the scenario three straight times toward any one alignment, sealing your unflappable conviction, and revealing to the force your true inclination toward good or evil.

Lightside male, on Dantooine, after you have gone down into the ruins and met disciple and found the information you needed about the location of the captured jedi, there is a cut-scene where Disciple sends a message to Carth, that he has found you - and that's pretty much it, short and mysterious.

So many similarities, and yet you still both had to pay for the game. INGRATES! :D "

Hhhmmm, don't you think it's odd you would see such similarities between yourself and a fictional Star Wars character, Pope? Almost surreal isn't it? But while we're on the topic of deja vu-ish revelations... I have a confession to make as well... I think I may have been exiled... A long, long time ago in a galaxy far far away. " Maybe even twice. :ph34r: But that was all long before I started a fight club, ruled the underworld of New Jersey with an iron fist, and crumbled down the walls of an evil law firm named Wolfram & Heart...

You can usually get a rain check on sales from retail outlets if you contact them during the timeframe of the sale and express interest in buying said product at sale price. Give 'em a call and try it out. It's not your fault they don't have the game yet afterall.

That's the way it is with all PC games. They announce the shipping date, not the release date. Game releases do not work the same way as CDs and DVDs, the big reason for this is movies and records are done months prior in advance, while games are usually only announced gold a week before they ship.

That's not a review. IGN often post their first impressions of wildly hyped games that they get to play early builds of to let the readers know what's up with the title.