ChipMHazard

I've said it repeatedly - obsidian was screwed the minute this became an issue. There was no way that they could please both groups. If this had went the other way we'd be having the same kind of ****storm reaction, just from the other side. Let's just hope that they bet on the right horse. Which given how PC focused the internet is they probably did.

Actually, there was a choice. They asked me if I wanted to change in light of what happened. I chose to change it so that they can concentrate on the game instead of this PR nightmare. They weren't going to change it, they asked ME if I wanted to. I can find another platform to write my controversial crap, and I will. They, on the other hand, did the right thing and allowed me to decide the fate of the epitaph. I chose to turn into something that made fun of the bitch-bastards that were complaining. They went above and beyond what I would have expected them to do. Now that we've got the real facts from Firedorn himself can we move on? Sadly that only makes it appear less likely that Obsidian had a standard they wanted to uphold and more likely that it was changed because of the ****storm.

Yet the cheap joke had nothing to do with transgender.

The difference is that the game approaches those themes with an appropriate seriousness and does not take them lightly. Not the same as making a joke at the expense of a group of people that have historically been oppressed and still severely are in large parts of the world. The joke had nothing to do with transgender.

If only it was that easy. These kinds of ****storms bleed over to other sites and even other forms of media. Social media has been proven to be a very effective and dangerous tool.

There is no transgender mentioned in the original poem. Yeah i guess transgender was just an assumption. Whatever the reason for the mixup, the joke's on the guy who ended his own life cause couldn't deal with the fact he had sex with a man. I mean, thats sad. If that happpened to me, i'd maybe ask myself if i was BI somehow, or if i should drink less, but i certainly wouldn't kill myself.... Well, it just states that he ran off a cliff. Not that he did so intentionally.

Heh, if they won't allow it you could always have someone start a twitter war. That might do it.

I'm honestly curious, where in the original memorial was the man in bed refered to as trans? The word transmisogynistic has been used to reference it but there is no indication that the man "Firedorn" slept with was trans. It quite obviously didn't have anything to do with transgender and if it did then it's so vauge that its hard to argue that it was.

Sadly Obsidian got caught up in the war. A means to an end, nothing more.

It is a good testament to the sillyness and apparently they [Those that complained] are now rather upset about the rewritten joke. Have to wait and see if they try to have it removed as well. The thought they had won, the joke is on them now. I don't think Obsidian will remove the new poem. Hopefully not, especially since this version is even more vague in its "offensiveness". They may or may not try, it will probably depend on whether or the mob has lost its steam at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-KC6IV7Doc

That is generally how I use them as well.

It is a good testament to the sillyness and apparently they [Those that complained] are now rather upset about the rewritten joke. Have to wait and see if they try to have it removed as well.

Lockpicking, apparently yes. Not sure about the rest. Heh think I'll take a pass on this patch until I read some more about and if need be they put out a hotfix. Good thing I'm not using Steam

Losing xp? How so? Are you referring to starting a new game to get the new stats or is there some change in the patch bumps their xp down?

You are entirely correct, then again the same thing goes for social media, if to a lesser extent since it can very quickly spread to gaming sites.

It's a few days... What's the feel bad about? GOG has to make sure that everything is going to work as intended. I still prefer GOG over Steam, especially since I have full control over whether or not I want to install a patch - Since Steam can sometimes be rather fickle when it comes to the "Don't automatically patch this game" option. This is just going to give the people without patches waiting for them the chances to read up on the patch before installing it.

The line is where the content is made by Obsidian and contains whatever context they deem appropriate. The fact that there is plenty of possibly offensive context in the game is precisely why those complaining about precedents and SJW and Obsidian giving up their artistic integrity are making a mountain out of a molehill. Obsidian changed this because they didn't write it and they didn't feel like defending a joke they didn't make. It's not the themes or the potential controversy that made them change it, but that it wasn't a conscious decision by Obsidian to put it there in the first place. I'm sure they would have removed a similar limerick about someone jumping off a cliff after being raped, but would not remove the current content dealing with rape in the game. Which would mean that any backer content could be changed because of social outcry? Unless we believe that said joke simply slipped through the cracks and would have been changed if it had been noticed by someone other than the person whom wrote it into the game. You're correct that they haven't changed any other offensive content up to this point. My argument being, what if someone starts pressuring them to do so? Will they refuse to change actual content that would take more effort than simply rewriting some text? Will future content be written with this example in mind i.e. Will Obsidian start wondering more about what is socially acceptable and will they cut content in accordance with that? Obviously this is entirely a "what if?" scenario. I would very much like further clarification on what exactly the tone of the game is and what consistency we can expect from Obsidian when it comes to this.

Oh here we go again... Methinks that they are already sharpening their pitchforks and readying their torches. Let me be clear about this [Obsidian] those people there do NOT have the well being of your company in mind. I sure do hope that when you made the change you did so solely because it didn't live up to your standards. If you changed it because of these people then you will most probably not be hearing the end of it before you remove it completely. Do not try to appease people whom don't care about you or your products.

Good and fair points. This could simply have been done to appease the mob as it were and avoid further pressure/negativity from internet sources. It's also entirely possible that they won't give into such sillyness again. However I just can't be sure about that at the moment. If they had any ideas of putting in a transgendered NPC into future content then that might not happen now, as an example. Their future actions will help reassure me that they won't start giving into arbitrary political correctness to avoid internet scandal, at least not where it truly matters i.e. the gameplay itself.

So you are just going to ignore the transgender individuals that spoke out to have the joke stay as it was? Do you speak for all other whom are transgender? That's a highly arrogant statement to make. Also the joke was far too vague to objectively have been about a transgender individual. It only became about that when a clearly crazy person made it about that. That is the important thing to remember. People gave into mob mentality because a single person made a disingenuous and highly self-serving statement. The joke didn't even really matter, since people obviously just bandwagoned without giving it a second thought. That's potentially dangerous for future content.

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny. Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't. Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate. I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so. Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced. I suppose that depends on if Obsidian agrees that it is indeed offensive. If they do, like they did here, then they'll act accordingly. The weird doomsday scenarios I'm hearing involve Obsidian not having any opinions of their own and just kowtowing to whatever random people ask of them on Twitter, which I've not known Obsidian to do. Obsidian is good and they did good here. (And censorship doesn't mean what you think it does.) Yes it entirely possible that they just didn't catch it before release, but here's the thing... There is plenty of offensive content in the game: Rape, abortion, lynching etc. So where does the line go? That's what I want to know. Since their game is adult themed it seems like a very odd place to draw said line, which is also why I'm not convinced that this was done willingly to live up to their own standards. They are but they didn't do good here, as far as I'm concerned, and yes I do know that it means. Just because you don't agree with my "form of censorship" comment doesn't mean that your definition is correct and mine isn't.

What a silly argument. There were backers that were and still are against it. Boycotting =/= censorship, although it's often used in an attempt to achieve the same result - Force developers to change their work. I highly doubt that is the case since boycotting is something that gets thrown around like mud in these kinds of "debates".

If we happened to miss content, then yes, we will change it if we feel it is necessary. Like Feargus mentioned in the update, we worked with many backers to revise their content for myriad reasons. Good and thank you for the reply. Although I would very much still like to know what tone exactly is being referred to here. Will I be able to purchase future content with the knowledge that it will carry the same dark tones as the main game? - Unless of course it's decided to make it lighter hearted by design. Hopefully you can see why this is important to someone like me: A fan of more adult fantasy settings, as they represent a more realistic/immersive universe.

If I may, I think I like the new one better. It's actually funny. Aye indeed it is. But the supposed precedent this sets isn't. Which is also I would like further clarification on this as reassurance that this won't happen again, if only to show that this wasn't to appease one clearly crazy person on twitter i.e. I would like to know which tone backer content has to live up to. Precedent? This isn't the Supreme Court. The content changed because someone said it was offensive, Obsidian agreed, and they asked the backer to submit something more appropriate. I hope that's ALWAYS what they do, and if there's something else that they feel needs to be changed they don't waste time in doing so. Aye and what happens when someone else finds something else to be offensive? When does it stop now that they know it can be done? That's the precedent. I hope it never becomes like that because there would be no end to it and we would have to kiss artistic integrity goodbye. There's a difference between editing content because it didn't live up to your standards and giving into a form of censorship because a disgruntled individual put pressure on you. I do hope it's the former and not the latter, but so far I'm not convinced.