Yellow Rabbit

It should. Maybe. Answer is vague, but without at least hardware configuration it's the only one that can be given. I, for one, played WL2 comfortably enough on my laptop straight from 2009, and PoE's going to be less greedy on resoursces. So... it should, yeah.

Just about "concern over the engine" and as an afterthought coming from my very limited experience with Unity. This engine suffers a lot from its own universalism regarding both platforms and types of games built on it. Jack of all trades usually is master of none. That's totally okay for projects of small and middle size (especially if scripter's hands grow from where they should), but with a big and complex project programmers most likely will have to dig through engine's guts adjusting it to meet their purposes more precisely and throwing out stuff they don't need in the sake of optimization. In my book after such surgeries engine doesn't have full right to be called Unity anymore. But what I wanted to say is that predicting engine's behavior after its adjusting is immpossible without full list of cruel things done to it. That's something only devs know, so... *shrug* Concern seems to be misplaced.

Imo, some people just have wrong impression about Kickstarter being something completely different from traditional publisher-developer model. In fact KS is just another source of money to fund development, coming without directives and restrictions from people agree with the pitch, and therefore allowing devs more freedom. Nothing else changes. Need to sell finished product stays right where it was, it's part of the point in starting a project. Besides, managing money is a tricky job. It's practically nature's decree that one always needs more money to make something than he estimated. Don't like to think about that. On topic, I think in the end "word-by-mouth" will do (already does, in fact) far more fruitful job in promoting PoE than any ads. Ads won't hurt either, though, but that is something Paradox should be capable of without advising.

I didn't really got what you expect to hear, sorry. Games you've listed have relatively stable builds, so the problem ought to be in your os or/and hardware. It would help a little if you posted those. PoE and TToN are built on the same engine, so there's fair chance they won't run as well if your pc doesn't like Unity that much. Doubts about that cannot be alleviated in any way until games are out. Haven't you tried to contact support of, say, inXile regarding Wl2 crashes? They'd ask to send them game logs and give you a number of typical issues' solutions, maybe even a few not so typical. At least they should have more chance to succeed in figuring out what the problem is exactly rather than fumbling and guessing we can do here

System built to feed on addicts actually teaches people not to get addicted? Wow. Could you stop melting my brain, please? It's not that good to begin with.

Nah, it's not about top selling on Steam. It's about sales altogether. First place on Steam only bobbed up because of Wasteland 2, which held it for some time and is somewhat relative to PoE. It's odd no one mentioned Divinity in this regard. You're right about GTA V, though. It could snatch first place even from under Witcher 3, would they been released close to each other. Though as constantine pointed out, sets of people buying rpgs and buying games of other genres intersect not so greatly. EDIT: Sorry, Divinity was mentioned by Sensuki. I missed that.

Am I only one thinking games should be made in such a way devs themselves would like them, without "targeting" someone? Don't kick me, I know one should respect people he intends to sell his game to, but when appealing to this audience comes ahead of author's vision of the game itself outcome usually is kinda bad. Btw, I'm 23, can I consider meself mature enough for PoE? On topic, being released nowhere near around Witcher 3 should help PoE's sales, but speculations about extent of this help are meaningless for now, I think. Too many factors we don't know yet. Anyway maybe Obs will delay PoE until May too, with proud "We want a worthy adversary!"?

You might want to divide those millions by two. Most people do have two eyes, after all. Well, unless they're pirates. Sensuki, if you don't mind question, who exactly are those "you" this thread referes to? We will buy PoE anyway, Witcher or no Witcher.

@borreh1973: Slow down a little, mate I bet devs are aware of that stuff you're talking about all too well. They have confirmed list of languages PoE will be translated into since their kickstarter campaign. Portugese was in that list all this time, but get lost for some reason on Steam PoE Pre-order page. I don't know if Portugese will still make it into the game itself, though. Anyway, PoE's translation gonna cost, game is text-heavy by default. Does anyone know who actually translated Backer Beta? I'd love to talk to fellows! Just to... express my gratitude, you know.

On OP: Isn't it Paradox who handles distribution issues localization included? You may want to address them directly with your question via email. It's unlikely someone on this board knows something for sure. My assumption echoes thoughts of other people here - devs might have no translator or decide that Portugese not so different from Spanish. Anyway if you can afford playing on original language you better do that. Obsidian never writes texts that are easy to translate. I've been watching BB playthroughs with Russian language and they totally confirmed my fears in this regard.

I thought it's mutually agreed that whole stronghold thing in NWN2 OC kinda sucked. Devs offered special update on this feature in PoE and there was a long thread discussing it here. So, the point of this one is...?

I think the main problem newcomer's going to have with the game of this kind is ruleset. Once you have a grasp on that, you can relatively easy figure out how to make a playable character, play through certain encounters etc. The very first character most likely going to be half-witted cripple even with IE veterans (those who didn't play backer beta of course). IE games was working on D&D ruleset. It was developed for PnP gaming, evolved for very long time and because of that tended to complexity. Not very much, but still. Besides, it had suffered a little from transition from tabletop turn-based game into computer-handled real-time one. Ruleset for PoE was designed from scratch for computer natively and, imho, should be easier to grasp, althgough it's borrowing concepts from PnP games here and there. Mostly to make combat challenging, as far as I know. Is it right?

OP's concern yet remains to be seen. Game is still at beta version stage, if there, and may change vastly before it's out. Especially in regards to combat mechanics since it seems to be main issue and the first candidat for changing/adjusting. Were IE games really that hard to get into? I never had problems with them. Person liking 4x type games shouldn't have any problems even more so.

Speaking by definitions, BB is a somewhat strange mix of aplha, beta and demo versions. Calling it "Beta" isn't right, but it needs to be called something people would understand, yes? Anyway main game gonna require a lot of testing too, and not only by Obs' QA. I just hope that testing will be done before release date, not after.

This. Romances in real life are natural thing, there's no going away from that. You meet person, come to like her/him, talk, flirt, etc. I'm consciously casting away love stories since never took part in one. In a game even simpliest romance gonna require a dozens of options on each step in order to give player choice and feel natural. And I find surreal case where companion abruptly stops in the middle of a dungeon without even wiping from face blood of that big ugly ogre and bluntly goes forward like: "You know what? We travel together for so long (actually just met in previous village) and I came to like you. Whaddya say?" That's how plainly written game scripts tend to work and implementing even that might cost noticeable time. Cases where you need constantly harass someone with talking attempts, repeating the same things dozens of times in order to know more about him/her and supposedly boost your relationships seems to me unnatural too. Well, not unnatural. Annoying. So, that's my problem with romances, immersion breaking. I know it's not an issue of romances per se, it's an issue of their implementation and writing, but I've never seen that done right. Not a single time. Maybe I just missed right games? Btw, immersion breaking is the reason why I even mentioned brothels in the first place. All that crap about need of sex being simple biological fact and unbeliveability of the world where no-one-even-thinks-about-that (yes, I'm hurt by vanilla TES series beyond repair ). Connecting that with romances is a matter of stereotype.

Well, if you would actually read your opponent's post to an end (I know, that is too much to ask, but I can hope, right?), you would notice that I said exactly the same thing, only shorter. Here: Now, to remind what we are talking about. Initially you said: "Devs doesn't need any additional sales of PoE since the game already fully funded". I (and not only me) said: "No, they need all they will get in the sake of their future". Anything else is just a speculation from that point. And since here you made it plain that you don't give a **** about their future I suggest leave it all at that. Cheers

@GrinningReaper659 I do realize all you have said, thanks. In the post that you quoted I wanted to say that 4+m is not a big sum by game development standards. Yes, that's almost five times what they initially asked, but it still not a big sum for game of this size. That's why I expected it to be exceeded, though I don't know actual expences devs had. Anyway, it is their problem which they apparently know how to solve. I know they WILL make this game. I trust they will deliver all the promises they made exactly like they said. But when someone starts to imply "they need to make PoE at all costs and then they can vanish from Earth for all I care" I cannot help myself saying that's not right. The more they'll got from this project - the better for their future projects and, therefore, for us. What's wrong with that? Couldn't you please decide whether they're "always get in the way of each other" or "not directly connected"? I haven't any problem with the latter but the former is just plain wrong.

Now that is a little too radical statement, is it not? Are you claiming that The Best Game of All Times shouldn't make any profit at all? That's what you actually said. Bad games usually born when devs try to maximize profit compromising quality. That's not the case here and never was, so... *shrug*

You misunderstood me a little I never had said that devs should try to appeal to broader audience and the like, it would be a severe mistake for kickstarted project. I just wanted to point out that any additional sales they can make shouldn't be considered "a bonus" but a profit that could and should be expected from the very beginning. As for expenses of running the company, I don't think we can get anywhere with all that theoretical talk without knowing real state of affairs in Obsidian's account department. What do you say?

Initial goal on kickstarter was 900k iirc. And it's not enough for the game of this type and size. Neither is 4+m, for that matter, with all stretch goals Obs promised to deliver. They were likely going to invest some of their own money in this or snatch a little from other projects. And "invest" means "put money in and expect them to come back with profit", yes? Anyway, what do you have against this certain devteam having a little profit from their work? They should get something in return, you know.

Cannot agree with you on that one. Game development is a tricky thing from teamwork point of view. People who were heavily engaged in a project on its pre-production and early production stages have literally nothing to do with it when a project closes to an end. So they need another project to work on long before the first one is done. That, or get fired. inXile, for instance, did exactly that - kickstarted Wasteland 2, then when it was half done kickstarted Torment. I don't know if anyone except Fargo could succeed in that, really. Passion for making games is all very well (very, very, VERY well) but if you're running company and hope to stay in business breaking even is not enough.

Sorry, my bad. Didn't put question well enough. I'm aware of what romance means. Well, kind of aware, anyway. Thing I wanted to know is what needs to be put in the game for romance cravers to say "okay, I got what I wanted"? How much romantic options is sufficient? Because narrative design, especially in rpg, has only so much means to express things like that, and doing it right is hell of a work. I've played all bioware games except for DA series, and if bioware puts special emphasis on romances and supposed to be the best out there in this regard (are they, really?)... Well, then no one ever made a good romance in rpg. Maybe because it's really hard. I'd say leave that to modders. Personally I would be content if devs would just put a few brothels here and there and cut off with that. And I know (have seen in previous thread) that I'm not only one with this opinion. Well, on two of your last points. In AAA grade games, in which Bioware specializes lately, need of full voiceovering puts a very strict limit on amount of text. Remove voiceover - and good writer can write a lot of dialogues in relatively short time. Just don't ask what Bioware did to all the good writers they're supposed to have (doped with neuroleptics? Broke all fingers except one with heavy hammer?). Thing is, write at least one good character with romantic options is possible. Just... not worth an effort, as I see it. And about romantic involvement with npc... Hey, YOU're not supposed to be romanticaly involved with npc! Your character supposed to! You're roleplaying him/her, remember? Just imagine yourself on his/her place, and everything will be okay. As far as you don't apply his/her imagined involvements to yourself in real world. I'm wholeheartedly agree with your overall point, though.

Why wouldn't PoE sell well? I mean, Wasteland 2 did fairly good, right? And that Divinity half genius half mediocrity thing. PoE is already pretty eagerly anticipated by lot of people, and not all of them are backers. BG series made name for Bioware and, as far as I know, sold very good in the days back then. I know, market changed, genre degraded and people putting up with that, but still, if a lot of people liked game of this kind then why wouldn't they like it today? Habit to "rpgs" like Skyrim cannot be that bad.

That reminds me of this comment thread on RPS where the guy watched recent pre-alpha gameplay video of T:ToN and said that it has "ridiculous setting and too much poorly written dialogues, the same issues Planescape:Torment had". No offense meant OP but this game was funded by "rpg grognards" and should please them in the first place. The rest of us will have to do with that.

Out of curiosity, what does term "romance" include? The word is just so... indefinite. Does flirting count? And casual sex, not necessarily with one of the companions? What about constant brain****ing, like the one that made me want to strangle half of the female cnpcs in BG2? Or does it have to end up in marriage? Some of those might be not so difficult to implement as long as they don't try to emulate love. That is, imho, almost impossible to do properly (i.e. without player feeling forced) with one side predefined from top to toes and the other supposed to be YOU. Tastes do differ, and everyone have their own opinions of what the heck love is, so it would require a really LOT of options and female writer. A little tl;dr follows, almost off topic and just for fun, so I hid it under spoiler And again, I apologize for mistakes I might've made in writing, English isn't my first language.