archangel979

And Sensuki's suggestions are often ignored as well, even when lots of people agree with them. They implemented some changes earlier on mostly about UI and ignored most of others. I cannot give his level of suggestions as I don't have access to beta, I can only tell the devs the expectations of IE fans and what kind of ****storm awaits them once the game is released unless they can achieve the excellence they promised (probably a mistake by them) in their KS pitch. To see how it looks check out the mentioned Jagged Alliance that also had a KS and failed to deliver. And I can certainly put a voice of reason into this something-licking topic. Because these forums (or Steam forums) are not going to look like this topic once the game is released if gameplay is not improved. Not to mention that PoE is on few lists for most expected game of 2015. The bigger the expectation, the bigger the disappointment.

my post is not supposed to give specific suggestions since these forums are full of those. And better they get these messages now than a ****storm after release. We all want the best game we can get, I just believe what is shown so far is not that game. I seen plenty of devs act like everything is OK and only a "few" people are unsatisfied while their house is burning around them. Check out latest Jagged Alliance game for a example where devs live in a different world than the rest of us. This must not happen to PoE. Devs need to have a clear mindset where all they did is not good enough and can be better or more or this game has no chance to achieve greatness except as a fluke.

I love you too, archangel. We were discussing missing in melee combat there though. :kiss kiss: I don't know about your reading skills but the last sensuki's image showed a spell doing between 5 and 85.

Stop lying. In IE games, most damage spells did half damage on miss/graze, not 0. Only when enemies had resistance to that element that damage could be 0 or very little. In PoE DR mechanic is all encompassing and as result Graze sucks for any attacks that are daily because only hit or critical are results worth getting. That also makes Accuracy even more important than in IE.

Nope, it is an example of wanting a better game due to their big words during KS campaign. If you want to settle for less, that is your option.

My suggestion is about big spells first (daily ones) vs all powerful DR that protects vs all.

And my message to dev team is to take your heads out of sand and start implementing best suggestions of the community or this game will never be more than good (at best). Do you want to make an excellent game or are you happy with just mediocre? Do you want people to still be talking about your game in 17 years and compairing it with any new game or are you happy to just have a play and forget game like NWN2? IE games put excellent gameplay first and rest second. And all the little details are what then made it stand out more (morale checks, lightning during storms, weapons breaking, being able to finish quests with stealth or pickpocket, being a jerk but still having enough xp by killing to finish the game, all the little secrets and hidden things and so on).

In ie games I never reloaded due to spells missing. but in ie spell missing meant half damage in case of damage spells which often was still decent damage. The problem of PoE is not grazes but DR working vs damage spells that do damage different than physical. it should not work like that. It screws up spell effects and number of possible item effects of found items. If armor protects vs fire that should be its seperate property that is not given to all armors. there is no reason to only balance armor with blanket DR. Why not let heavier metal armors have better vs physical DR but be vulnerable to lightning and fire? But be better vs acid. And so on.

Now will this inspire OE to make their game better or just say "the modders seem to be capable enough so we don't need to bother" ?

That sounds pretty bad.

Don't worry they will do it like 95% of games today. Release and than continue patching and working on the game :D

Except for Werewolves and special crazy forms for specific fights (like Oozes) druid shapeshift was useless for druids in IE games. It was good for Druids in NWN2 due to being able to cast spells in animal form and buff enough so had good defense and offense. I hope PoE will be closer to NWN2 usefulness than IE games.

This topic is what I watch often although I am not a member there. I have learned all kinds of details about the game from there, these official forums are laughable when compared.

And make it not a worthy successor to BG games.

As I said earlier, no need for a walk/run toggle, one click walk two clicks run outside combat while during combat one click is always run except when character is engaged when one click is always walk. It can also be setup that if outside combat you one click far away enough the default is to run.

Of course moving slowly away and still being attacked by enemies following you is expected and even wanted as long as disengagement attacks are not suffered. it is a tactical choice and a better one then automatic disengagement attacks and this choice follows the rules of the game where enemy attacks still have attack animations and recovery time instead of invisible instant attacks.

The run/walk thing is something I suggested earlier as well but a bit different. It could be done that once engaged any single click to move would be automatic walk that does not provoke any disengagement attacks but if you double click you run and suffer those. So you can move slowly around your opponent but if you really want to reach that back line in time you need to risk it. AI that also goes slowly around to reach the wizard and priest would then even give Sensuki what he wants, need to reposition his front line and back line to stop this. Also there are many cool things that could be used with this mechanic. Like single wolf would not be able to engage but 2+ would as wolves fight in packs.

Wizards were never worthless in my games at early levels. Sleep spell is the main reason. Horror and Web after that.

The thing is in single player games average players will not min max to its fullest, they will not do the math to find best possible combinations. This is only done in MMOs and competitive games. So the question of value of attribute bonuses often comes down to perception and not math. So when people see an attribute that gives easily understood mechanics like hit chance, crit chance and damage this is what they go for. It is even worse if hit chance and crit chance are controlled by same stat. It is a no choice really. Additionally, unbalanced stat system (even in just perception of average players) will lead to same problem Wasteland 2 had where people picked up NPC not on their personality and general skills but on quality of distribution of their stats. We don't want that for PoE. Also there is a reason why Khalid often "took a stroll into a forest alone without equipment"

Perception would not be as important if accuracy didn't directly control critical hits as well.

Critical chance need to be removed from accuracy and Perception. Some other less useful stat needs to increase crit chance while Perception only increases hit chance. If any spells or effect get a duration bonus or penalty from critical hits or grazes that should not work, duration should be only controlled by its own dedicated stat so it is worth taking that one. Let critical hits or grazes only decide upon the strength of effect.

Shadows are hard to hit as they are ghostly forms. You have 50% miss chance on all attacks vs them in addition to your normal hit chance. That is why you use Magic Missile to finish them off as Force effect spells ignore miss chance. Thanx for the info but that wasn't the point of my post. That was just an example; I could go deeper with more examples but I'm covered in a way anyway by PrimeJunta. Well it was a bad example. Shadows also ignore target armor and only your dexterity and magical armor like mage armor stops them. So it was not that stupid that you missed them while they killed your low level cleric. Get us better example if you want to prove anything. The first two archer strikes was the lucky part of the story, others mission after that was normal. Also you might be talking here about apples while we talk about oranges. Swinging in IE games is also due to each swing not being a real attack. The added additional swing animations so your melee guys don't stand around doing nothing most of the round. But what we talked about was that in PoE damage is too much. Critical hits happen too often and do too much damage and even what is considered a miss in IE games, in PoE is a graze that also does damage. So unlikes IE games, PoE combat can end up much faster and seems like it is crazy (this is what multiple people have reported, personally I have not played beta). Sensuki has reported losing lvl 5 characters from single criticals and others reported their rogues doing 400 damage on a critical which one shots anything.

That would not work. It's not a matter of balance; it's that it makes a lot of the spells and abilities useless or un-fun. It would still be playable, but certainly not much fun. I believe Sensuki's and Bester's grand plan of making a grognard mod for the game is better: remove engagement and revise all abilities related to it, replacing some with entirely new ones. This is a quite a lot of work however. Yes it would as it would be an option toggle and what you described is all balance. Character now having abilities that don't do anything is about balance and that is why the warning would exist. Implementing such a toggle would shut up all naysayers. Sensuki said turning off engagement is commenting one line in code. How hard is to make a toggle that does exactly that (puts a if.. then there)?

Yeah the biggest thing they could do to fix engagement (and it might be enough by itself) is to just make it so you only trigger an engagement attack when you actually "leave" an enemies engagement range, not when you simply move after being engaged. Or put in a toggle in the game that turns it off (like they said they will have for conversation thingies and info above character heads) so we don't need to mod their game from day 1!! There is certainly a big enough group of people that would like to play without it. Even if it will not work perfectly they can add a warning when you click it that the game is not balanced around removing it and that there might be problems with it. Divinity: Original Sin showed you a similar warning if you tried to turn off the INGAME option that limited you from rotating the camera 360 degrees.

A bit about Monk wounds. So, is that already in or will that be introduced in the next patch? I honestly couldn't tell from playing through the beta yesterday. That's also kind of ****ty because that somehow defeats the whole purpose and the most interesting synergies of the class. If there is no incentive to use up wounds immediately and given that some of the more interesting class features are per encounter now anyway, I might as well ignore spending wounds completely and build a monk around all the passive abilities and use the wounds to fuel the turning wheel flame damage. When D&D 3.0e came out high level fighters came up with a powerful way to build a character. You get scimitars (for good base critical chance), two weapon fighting, get feats that improve critical chance and get keen property on those scimitars (for more crit chance). And finally you get a Vorpal weapon (instant death on critical due to cutting off the head). Now you have 7 attacks per round and each attack kills instantly 45% of the time. To say nothing survived the first round of attacks is an understatement (most died in first few rolls). What did owners of D&D do? They fixed it for 3.5e by only letting Vorpal work on roll of 20 on a scale of 1 to 20 which means you only had 5% to instant kill anyone with it now no matter how much normal critical you built for. They also made it so you could no longer stack feat that improves critical chance and Keen ability for weapons that does the same. Systems that let critical bonuses run amok were all proven bad in the past. There was a good reason why IE only had critical on roll 20 and with some weapon styles on 19 and 20. D&D 5e also has reverted to critical ONLY on 20 and with specialization on 19 and 20. PoE needs to fix its critical hit system before release, the game combat will always be crap as it is now.