213374U

There is no "bottom line", and claiming otherwise is an oversimplification. There is no simple "they". That's my point. Do you read and vote over every bit of budget legislation that is passed in the UK? Do you make sure that all deals that involve the government are done in perfect accordance to the law of the land? Do you watch over government officials to make sure they act in the best interests of the people? Not only you don't do that, you couldn't do it even if you wanted to. And yet, you are supposed to assume responsibility for your political representatives' mistakes, abuses, corruption and general idiocy, under the terms of a social contract that you were never given an option not to sign. Not just you, but also those who, unlike yourself, lack the ability to make informed political decisions. (I'm a master theorycraftsman, I'll have you know) By all means, hold referendums throughout the EU! That would of course inevitably lead to the immediate breakup of the EU. Yes, that would be democracy. At its worst, democracy is the rule of the stupid, the cowardly and the selfish. In spite of that, I would never dare claim that German taxpayers shouldn't have a say in how their government spends money. What is your point? Some things are too important to decide democratically? Might as well boot up Skynet already. (emphasis mine) This is a good point, and one of the common complaints leveled against the referendum. A clear, unequivocal question could have stuck the government (even more) between a rock and a hard place. If they had asked whether to reject any conditions imposed by international creditors that were deemed unfair and/or unfeasible regardless of consequences, even if it means leaving the eurozone, the referendum might have gone differently — though I personally doubt it. As it stands the question posed was an unintelligible mess and pointless because the terms alluded to therein no longer applied after defaulting on june 30th.

I've found that it's harder to take sides if you stop treating countries as individuals and applying the same logic. "Greece" cannot renege on or pay its debts because it's an abstract entity, not a person, and it cannot act or make decisions. And once you begin digging into what is owed, to whom, why, and under what circumstances were those debts contracted, the issue becomes very muddled. Hell, even considering "Greeks" as a whole is silly, because you are lumping together an unskilled burger flipper that puts in 60 hours a week in two jobs for a pittance, an old lady that has to make do with a 400€ pension, and Papandreou. Should the debt be repaid in full? Does it matter? It's all make-believe anyway... that's the real issue IMO.

Heh, I'll admit, I didn't expect Varoufakis to follow the political equivalent of "live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse" so closely. I guess he'll just go back to advising Valve as how to best nickel-and-dime their customers, so watch out. Well, I suppose one's perspective on the likelihood of that occurrence hinges on to the extent to which one believes the EU decision making process to be subservient to financial interests. We'll have to wait and see. Also, pretty funny to see Bruce defend "democracy" right up to the point where it is put into practice (cf. Crimea, Greece). Then it's all propaganda, manipulation, etc. Or, should I say, it would be funny if people recognized him for the poe that he is.

Turnout's been less than two thirds, though. Given how things are, I'd have expected it to be in the high 70s. Of course now everyone is going to try and take advantage of the referendum result. If the powers that be are smart, they won't give an inch of ground in the coming days and force Greece out of the euro by denying access to credit, cutting their losses. If not, if SYRIZA is allowed to negotiate advantageous terms, the left elsewhere will be emboldened and the risk of a contagion may increase. That would spell certain doom for the EU. After all, ~€320bn is chump change compared to what TTIP represents.

^ Shouldn't that go in the "Apparently there are things that Russians can do well" thread?

Wow. I didn't think Keyrock meant it literally.

Oh, ****. So it's already gotten to the point where moderates are to be regarded as enemies of the state, huh. Can't say I'm surprised by that sort of sectarianism, but I wouldn't have expected them to start making threats so quickly. They haven't even been in power for a year, ffs.

Sounds bad. I wonder to what extent the current gov't has actual support from the armed forces. Have you heard anything about Academi (formerly Blackwater)? http://beforeitsnews.com/global-unrest/2013/02/greece-blackwater-mercenaries-guarding-govt-and-overseeing-police-coup-feared-2453458.html https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=el&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsbomb.gr%2Fpolitikh%2Fnews%2Fstory%2F296524%2Fapantisi-dendia-sti-voyli-gia-tin-blackwater I'm guessing the "domestic enemies" he was alluding to are supposed to be Golden Dawn fifth-columnists and such?

Greece was doing great as far as fiscal consolidation goes according to OECD, by late 2013. "There is no doubt about the efforts of the Greek authorities to reform the economy and balance the budget. Between 2010 and 2012, Greece reduced its budget deficit by nine percentage points of GDP, the largest ever adjustment by an OECD country and one which looks set to deliver a primary surplus this year. Over the same period, no OECD country has introduced more far-reaching reforms in health care, the labour market, the pension system and the banking sector, to name but a few." That hasn't really worked as advertised, with debt-to-GDP ratio increasing all the way, and the country is now going down the toilet. *shrug* Heh. With the heat wave going on, I'm guessing people will put off heading out to vote as much as possible.

Oh it sure does. Opening both windows creates an airflow, and air in motion will carry away the heat, which works like a fan. If the air is over ~37ºC and significantly dry, an airflow will actually transfer heat to you, says thermodynamics, which is not hard because air in contact with the asphalt is locally hotter than what the temperature is according to thermometers. You will then start sweating like crazy as your body does what it can to maintain homeothermy. Pretty much everyone but me has A/C in my condo. Dem electricity bills doe...

(emphasis mine) Yep, if some get their way, you won't get even that.

Well, yeah, I might be doing it wrong. Or rather, not doing it enough. That's neither here nor there... And yes, sex is pretty much on the same level as feeding or sleeping, as far as impulses go. Nothing special about it; it'd be hilarious how much undue weight it's given, if it weren't for the fact that people stil get sent to prison and killed over it. I'd completely agree if she had been charged with rape, but not one of the gajillion charges she was convicted on was for that, unless I missed something.

Talk as high and mighty as you please, it's par for the course here. And you probably do know better than us if only because you can read Greek while most of us can't, so I'd personally appreciate your contributions. Regarding your comment about the Greek gov't and SYRIZA, I'm not surprised. Sounds a lot like our own Podemos crowd. Good luck.

They are still students. I even take issue with college level stuff like this. Teachers are supposed to be held to a certain standard. You folks don't want cops beating up on suspects, I don't want teachers banging their students. I study (or try to), which makes me a student. I'm older than some of my teachers. The line you're drawing is... arbitrary. While I understand where you're coming from regarding the abuse of authority thing (<Brazzers>), do you know this is one such case? Sacking her is one thing. Destroying her life completely is on a whole different level. Also, are you putting violence from a postion of superiority and a basic physiological function side by side? Really?

You are very much allowed to ignore him. Members of the judiciary have a duty to examine all cases and petitions brought before them to curb abuses of everyone's rights, but not society at large. Why do you feel obligated to listen to his trolling?

I believe nothing but the data, which is freely available and properly cited. Look it up, bring it up for discussion if you disagree, or keep regurgitating the same baseless neoliberal slogans ad nauseam in the face of contradicting evidence. Do you want to discuss something in particular, or you just don't like the name they chose for the committee? (it's not a government but a parliamentary committee — you know the difference, right?)

^ Been hitting 40º C (104º F) the past few days. No A/C, so I've been soaking every hour or so. I'm lucky enough not to live downtown, air here is a bit better quality. City center is downright unbreathable. Worst of it is going to sleep and waking up unrested. I've managed to muster enough willpower to go hit the gym, but performance is bad and the smell is worse — no A/C there either ("it's broken down, maintenance has already been notified...").

Yes, Merkel's government does it because they feel they have a moral responsibility to prevent the Euro and the EU from collapsing. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you... Anyway, if you folks are really interested in the composition and history of Greek sovereign debt, so a more fact-based debate can be had, you may want to take a look at this (I'm only halfway through myself). A few juicy tidbits: "Rather than being a product of high public budget deficits, the increase of debt was clearly related to the growth in interest payments. Greece entered the crisis with a debt inherited over the period of debt accumulation of 1980-1993; the main contributor to debt accumulation was the ‘snowball effect’ – present when the implicit interest rate on the debt is higher than GDP nominal growth. This explains two thirds of the increase of debt between 1980 and 2007." "Primary deficits feeding the debt have been further affected by poor performance in income tax collection and employers’ contributions to social security collection. These were much lower than the rest of Eurozone, and are attributed to fraud and illicit capital flows - explained below - benefiting only a minority of the population." "Public expenditure was lower than that of other Eurozone members. The only primary public spending which was higher (as a ratio to GDP) was in defence expenditures, about which a series of corruption scandals need to be further investigated." "Contrary to what is frequently proclaimed, Greek public expenditure (excluding defence) does not explain the debt increase. Public expenditure was lower than in Euro Area countries (EA-11, which comprises Euro-Area countries excluding Greece)." "We estimate that overspending in defence contributed to a debt increase of at least €40 billion. Most of this spending is due to large-scale contracts for the purchase of military equipment supplied by companies based in current creditor countries. Concerns about illegal operations, such as bribery, have been raised in several cases, particularly regarding excessive pricing or inadequacy of the equipment. Greece’s current lenders linked the 2010 bailout to the confirmation of pending military purchase orders" "the majority of the bailout loans given to Greece after 2010, under strict conditionality, have been used for the exclusive benefit of private banks, whether to reimburse their holdings of government bonds or for the recapitalisation of Greek banks. Far from the frequent assertions that the loans “assist” or “aid” the population or the state" It goes on, and on... So yeah. As Victoria Nuland succintly put it, "**** the EU".

He's so dreamy.

^ That's surprisingly accurate. Varoufakis has appeared on an Irish radio saying that a deal is "almost done", something echoed by Tsipras, who has assured that 48 hours after the referendum, there will be an agreement. This has prompted Juncker to go on record as "omg wtf no".

#firstworldproblems There is interesting stuff to be found, but it's due to sheer size; snr is pretty bad, a fact that is that is acknowledged beforehand as evidenced by the board layout and the amount of posts that are hidden by default. I skim a few subreddits from time to time (r/fitness and r/science mostly) but I burn out pretty fast. I'm not even registered.

IMF says Greece needs extra €60bn in funds and debt relief Is Tsipras' grandstanding starting to pay off? Now, the Washington-based side of the troika is changing its tune. Greece requires "a reduction in debt of 30% of GDP to bring it down to sustainable levels" and debt restructuring. Can't have Greece leaving the Euro and having closer ties closer to Russia, hmm? More power plays and in the end, it's always the taxpayer footing the bill, be it Greek or German.

Like that article demonstrates, "austerity" (Boo! Hiss!) is actually a conflation of two different things: Trying to balance income & expenses by cutting government spending Trying to balance income & expenses by raising taxes I guess for the likes of Krugman, it's convenient to obscure that distinction in cases like the current Greece crisis, because the analysis of which of the two is really hurting the economy, might not turn out to their liking. Let me guess: you approve of the former but not of the latter. It doesn't really matter because Greece has done a lot of the first too. I didn't think Krugman particularly obscured anything; his point is that, as things are, Greece is now past the point where it can ever repay the debt because its economy has shrunk (~20%) as a result of austerity measures. You may argue that cutting government spending cannot possibly hurt the economy, but in a country heavily dependent on government spending and with an oversized public sector, laying off public employees and giving the rest salary cuts is going to have a net negative effect because it stifles spending across the board. Much like the oft-repeated fiscal fraud fallacy, simply ramping up tax collection efficiency (slash fiscal fraud by 1/3 and Greece could repay its debts NAO!) would do more harm than good because of the sheer amount of money that would be removed from circulation. At any rate, the scope of the problem extends far beyond Greece. It's a problem with the financial system itself, a system based on exponential debt growth and perpetual borrowing of money from the future. Not quite a Ponzi scheme (we'll leave that for Social Security) but unsustainable all the same. A Greek financial crash is something the global economy can soak up. A US debt crash? Not so much. It doesn't matter how much you make from tax revenues, slash government spending, and spur economic growth. You will never keep up with the rate at which debt accrues. They are simply different mathematical functions, Michael Hudson (Boo! Hiss!) says, and that is why periodic defaulting is not just a thing, but a necessary and inevitable thing. This fact is known at least as far back as Hammurabi's Code, but we apparently no longer care because innumeracy one must honor their commitments!

Fun fact: in 1953, it was agreed to cancel 50% of the debt owed by FRG to western nations and banks. The remaining 50% was to be repaid provided that Germany ran a positive trade balance, and payments would amount to no more than 3% of export income. Among creditors who agreed to this debt cancellation was... Greece. Go go German diligence and work ethos!

This afternoon Greek PM Alexis Tsipras addressed the country reaffirming his commitment to next sunday's referendum, where the Greek people will have to vote on... stuff. Nobody is quite clear on what the referendum is really supposed to elucidate, as the previous bailout conditions are off the table after Greece failed to pay back 1.8bn € in due time. This is after a letter started circulating by which Tsipras would allegedly accept the latest proposed terms of the bailout, with some amendments. Tsipras has stressed that a "no" vote, for which he is campaigning, doesn't mean Greece would leave the Euro, as some have suggested. Should he lose the gamble, he may be forced to resign, by his own admission. German Chancellor Angela Merkel wants to wait until after the referendum to start a new round of talks, French President François Hollande wants to reach an agreement before the referendum. At any rate, it appears that the referendum itself will solve little regardless of the outcome because after years of austerity and cuts, the Greek economy has shrunk and can no longer sustain the debt, at least in the opinion of one Paul Krugman (Boo! Hiss!). It is more of this austerity (pensions cuts, VAT raises) that the Greek government and the troika disagree on. As I'm sure you all know by now, Greece has been suffering capital flight since SYRIZA won the election on january, and after defaulting on the june 30th payment, things have reached a breaking point with banks closed since monday and limits of 60€ per card and day being imposed on cash withdrawals in an attempt to avoid a total financial collapse. What seems to be at stake here (other than the future of millions of Greeks, obviously) is the stability and continuity of the Euro as a currency, as nobody really knows what a contagion could bring, and potentially, of western Europe as a political entity itself. As Chancellor Merkel put it four years ago: "Nobody should take for granted another 50 years of peace and prosperity in Europe ... that's why I say: If the euro fails, Europe fails". Fun times.