Child of Flame

Yeah, but I imagine his fantasy is a lot happier than our collective realities.

I could use some blind faith right now. I think too much. And Calax, I would never do that to my kids, as my Dad (an Ex-Minister) never did that to me. I still enjoy the social element of Church, and the friendships I've forged there, but my heart just doesn't seem to be in it anymore. The crisis of faith is spawned mostly in trying to find my own answers (via reading the Bible, and thinking long and hard), as a sort of 'primer' for the ministry. My dad never forced me to go to church, though it was a 'family outing' type thing, growing up, but as soon as I didn't feel like I should be there anymore (it happened about the time I hit highschool, and became more socially and politically aware), he just let me stay home if I'd like. He's always encouraged me to seek my own answers, and...well, I've been doing that. I came back to Church about a year ago, after deciding that it wasn't a problem with the book, it was a problem with the followers and their interpretation of it, but now I'm wondering if it's not both.

Personally i blame you for that. " Now with regards to the man of the cloth thing, can't you just be undecided on those questions and instead do what you intend to as a minister? What is the role of a minister? Is it just to quote scripture every Sunday? I thought it was a guidance counsellor position. Do you want to change the church form with in or is it helping directly that appeals to you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Um, it is kind of both. As a minister, responsibilities would encompany tending to the flock, sermons, a lot of counselling, and helping others. However I would never feel comfortable teaching something I myself cannot wrap my head around, and as much as I would like to do both of the things in your last sentence, I cannot teach something I don't understand. Also lack of faith. Basically, at the moment, I feel more of a Deist (as Baley suggested), than a baptized Christian.

See, but the choice about not going into the ministry was very much less about this relationship and more about general problems with doctrine, and disbelief in myself. The thing just seemed to evolve into a relationship thread the moment I mentioned a woman even inspired these thoughts a little. I shouldn't be surprised really, in a conversation comprised mostly of males, many of which who do not get out all that much, but would love to give advice.

She's just a friend for now, but there seem to be some pretty strong signs of attraction. She thinks it would work just fine (not with me, as I used the example of my Aunt and Uncle to bring it up), I do not, and if things progressed far enough, unless she wanted to convert to Christianity I would probably convert to Islam.

They probably teach a version that emphasises certain elements over others. How long is the course ? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am not sure how long it is, or any of the course specifics really, aside from it being good enough you can get certified by the State of California, and the tests you have to take for that are damned hard as my Dad is studying for them now. I am two years away (at the very least) from transferring to Seminary or any other Uni.

Then why do they have an MFT course at the Seminary I was thinking about joining? CONSPIRACY!

Also, Mothie posted as I was entering mine. I hate to break it to you bud, but you don't have any influence to withdraw.

No. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's what I'm planning on doing if the relationship ends up going that far. Also, I'll continue on with my current plans, as I was planning on studying Psychology before moving on to Seminary, as Pastoral Counseling is a large part of a Minister's work. Even if things do end up going that far, I'll still have a viable trade, that will pretty much always be around as long as humans continue to be the screwed up buggers they are. Also, I tend to plan ahead to a rather extreme extent. Even before I met this girl, as soon as I got a job, I was planning on tucking away money for a wedding ring/noneymoon from my paycheck every month (College Students/Pastors don't tend to have lucrative financial means, and modern dowries are 'spensive).

Lately I've been having the songs Cain and Carry Your Cross And I'll Carry Mine, both by Tiamat. This is not neccessarily a bad thing, as I like both these songs, and my voice is pretty dang similar to Johan Edlund's. Generally whatever songs are stuck in my head are the ones in the playlist on my computer.

That is basically my thought, I am entirely too romantic at heart for my own good. But by marrying a Muslim, even if I didn't convert, I would basically be throwing myself out of pretty much any pastoral position. Leaders have some pretty different standards they're expected to uphold than followers. And yes, I know it is soon, but the way I was brought up, dating is utilized as a tool to find a prospective partner, one you can live the rest of your life with. Even with my problems with God at the moment, this is something I still believe in pretty strongly.

But the bible doesnt say anything about you having to marry someone from the same religion, does it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, it does. It's the part about uneven yokes. I would dig it out right now, but I have the flu and am trying to relax. It is also a very logical part as was proved my my Aunt's marriage/family.

There seems to be some confusion here. I am not Catholic, I am very, very Protestant. The problem arises from the girl being of a different faith, not because I want to be a priest and never get married.

Well I'm ambidextrous. And I rarely even wear pants.

May i ask what was the catalyst to the events to you losing your faith? Have you been reading or discussing anyting in paticular? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have been reading the Bible, a lot, I have been reading Job (not the book in the Bible, but the one by Robert Heinlein), and been thinking about starting a relationship with the aforementioned girl, which would not be right under my current belief system. It's not just that though, a lot of reflection has gone on also. Was I thinking about going into the ministry for my motives, or for the greater glory of God? Do I even believe in what I would be teaching with my entire heart?

Oh, I'll always be a deist whether I follow the Christian religion or not until the exact minute science can explain the creation of the universe, no supernatural forces setting things in motion. At this point in time, according to the laws of physics, there is no explanation.

Well what're you gonna do about it?!!

1. God is also just, remember that. God just doesn't send people to Hell for no reason. Why would he go through the trouble of sending Jesus down here if he didn't care if we went to Hell or not? 2. Sad but true that followers can drive others away. Have you talked to anyone else about this? 3. Does she have a problem with your faith, or are you afraid the difference in faiths will drive you apart? 4. I know this sounds really cliche, but perhaps you aren't listening, or he/she/it hasn't been giving you the answers you want to hear. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. I am not talking about Hell, if it was just hell it wouldn't be so much of a problem. It is his crusades in the OT, telling the Israelites to slaughter entire peoples down to the last man, woman, and child, floods, natural disasters, etc. 2. That is not the problem anymore, I crawled back, remember. 3. Ironically, she has been encouraging me to keep my faith more than most people in this thread, but after seeing what it did to my aunt's kids growing up, I'd sooner consider converting to my spouse's religion than raising children in a 'divided' home. 4. I have heard this so many times, and have taken it to heart so many times, I don't need to be told again, thanks anyway though Mothie.

An apple a day keeps paradise at bay... *muahaha*... Ahem :"> On a more serious note young man, you know that you were given the free will and a brain for a purpose right ? If you had blind faith, you would be no better than the nutcases that blow stuff up. You might as well have been born as a wrench or screwdriver then, a simple tool for a purpose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the purpose of faith if it was easy ? Where would be the challenge of that ? Lean back, relax, close your eyes, think, why did you believe in the first place ? What has changed, that made you question what made you believe in the first place ? Sometimes, people are able to answer their own questions, once they voice them out loud... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 1. God is both bloodthirsty as the fires of Hell and benevolent, it doesn't make sense. 2. I was brought up in it, I fell away once, crawled back after I decided it was the people in the church, not the face of God himself, that bothered me. 3. Faith has always been relatively easy to keep for me, now there is the prospect of a relationship with her, but if I were to follow through with it, there would be a very uneven yoke, in all other aspects she is totally sweet and awesome, like a ninja. 4. I talk to God, but he never returns my calls.

Happy Birthday to you both.

Pixies, you and your MSPaint alterations are a one trick pony!

Meh. There are some truths in the Bible that are so explicitly stated there is no way around them. I have been praying, but I'm getting know answers. Maybe I'm just not crazy enough to be a minister. Also, this crisis in faith was inspired, in part at least, by a woman. Call her my Eve I guess.

That is the problem though, at least in my Church's version of Christianity doubting the infallibility of Scripture throws the whole thing topsy turvy. It is divinely inspired, and is perfect. Also, Baley's link isn't the Catholic church doubting it's infallibility, it is bad writing on the author's part, they are doubting the literal extent to which some take it. Except that in order for Christianity to work properly, you must be 'right'. I am tempted to just give up on the religion entirely, convert to whatever religion my eventual girl is, and leave it at that. And no, none of the religious debate here sparked this, the entire reason I wanted to go into the ministry was to change things, not keep them status quo, and now I am wondering if my motives were wrong, and the religion is good as it is.

1. I cannot explain the omnipotence/infinite benevolence of God at the same time. 2. I have a hard time believing completely in the infallibility of scripture. 3. If I were to become an actual preacherman I would not be sure whether I was teaching my religion or God's.

I don't know why not, the best relationships are always started in prison. Also, Obsidian always tries to lie to themselves about this place being family friendly and I think it's high time I know why. I mean, I've given this board the best years of my life, but does it ever talk to me? NO!