Rosbjerg

Well your welcome to jump off your roof Yes but when something new comes along science adapts with nary a miss step. The introduction of new concepts is something religion finds hard to impossible to deal with. In some cases it's like sticking your fingers in your ears in hopes that it will just go away. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm not doubting the fact that science is adaptable .. but my point, which I have stated several times now (sorry for being circular in my argument Eldar), is that it still requires belief in the new theories that arises .. they are not hard fact, you still need a degree faith! and religion may be stagnant compared to that .. but that does not make it worth any less .. it's just a different perspective! both are fallible in the big picture .. so in order to trust them, we must believe in them .. my world view is wrong to some other people .. but right for me .. that doesn't mean I'm wrong, it doesn't mean the others are wrong .. it just means we see things differently!

Does anyone not believe that 2+2=4 ? You dont need to believe in science. Science is just there. Even if you dont believe in gravity you still cant fly . You may have devices that can overcome it, but it's still a fundamental and provable truth. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's not how science works .. science never proves anything to be true, I can only prove something wrong .. If I one day fly on my own accord, science will have to incorporate that, and probably will .. Science is fluid, that's it's strenght, it has the ability to adapt, which has made it quite popular .. but it's not solid fact, it's based on observations .. and until the day that we have seen, experianced and know everything .. science is fallible!

Your wrong. If you want to confine yourself to your own reality then fine you can accept it as fact. If however you want to impress your reality on others, that takes proof or faith. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> this is what I've been saying all along .. you've accepted the given fact 2+2=4 .. nothing wrong with that, because it makes sense, and if it fits into your reality then good! but you can' assume everyone sees, feels or believes this .. I've accepted the fact that Math works as well! and I do believe in science more than religion .. but I believe in it, I don't know it to be true! and the reason why I'm arguing here is because someone stated that people who believe in God without proof is stupid .. While my opinion is, that everything you hold to be true is a matter of faith and not die hard proof.. so that would make everyone an idiot! and that's why I disagree with the original poster ..

I said I was sorry .. no need to go to such desperate measures!! I mean .. Hasselhoff??

yes they are .. they are real to the person that sees them .. and that's whats important! you insist on drawing everything out into this common reality .. which you have no proof of .. just because it's not real to you does mean it's not there .. I don't believe in your God, so I don't believe s/he exist .. but s/he does to you! and following your above point that makes God an illusion ..

Well you had a female avatar .. you made a thread about the senseless violence against female villans .. I mean .. a thread about senseless violence?? and senseless violence against females baddies?? plus all those phallos remarks .. how could I possible believe you were a guy based on that??

and oh how I hate the Matrix for that! because if I was saying this, without the matrix making the argument pop, you wouldn't relate to it as pseudo-intellectual bull****.. just like "Everything is relative" it's being used too much! it's still valid, but people don't listen to the words because they are fed up with idiots spouting it all the time .. which is why (if I want to make the argument) I use the Zen quote that goes "Water on it's own has no sound, but when I flows on stones it gurgles" I've actually thought about my world view .. long and hard, and I have believed in it long before The Matrix came out! sorry if I made a stab at you .. but I was trying to use their line of logic to show them that they were doing the same thing as they were attacking others for .. I of course respect the fact that you actually take the time to really think about what believe in .. which, for me, is the best thing a man can do .. be a critical thinker! and form his own mind, even if it's based on others foundations (which we all do)..

But what is the real reality? how do we know .. how can I trust that what I see is what you see? Humans think and structure their minds in symbols, and like with dreams we must interpret these individually.. so then my reality is not yours .. how then can we say there is a fundamental reality? when none us of truly knows what it is .. my point is just, that nothing is certain! you can't be sure that science is right, you can't be sure religion is .. it's all a matter of faith! so religion and science shares that common ground.. This does not diminsh it however, since everything is uncertain, and there's nothing wrong with beliefs as long as we remember to question them from time to time! we all trust familiar patterns, what we think is certainties .. but no matter how rooted our belief in something is, we need skepticism, since that is a powerful tool of critical thinking, creativity and freeing the mind of confirmative patterns ..

awesome ... awesome to the max!

I really loved the universe .. and the story was fairly interesting (would probably have made a pretty decent film)! nothing great, but definitly not bad either! but the execution of the game sucked .. the dialouge (not the cutscenes) were horrible!! and the mission were horrificly boring and homogeneous! But as I said, the universe was absolutely great! and it deserved a much much better game! plus one of the things that really bothered me was the power difference between the ships belonging to the different houses .. how come you couldn't get a Liberty fighter which could mount lvl 10 weapons and shields? Rheinland would be able to destroy everyhing in an all-out war, simply because they had vastly superior ships to everyone else! that made no sense to me .. I know it was because you progressed through the game that way.. but for the multiplayer part they could've at least added less powerful and more powerful ships to each nation .. so you had some different designs to choose from!

really? I didn't get that report .. I only got that one about it being able to instantly spawn an infinite amount of Qurans (or Bibles for that matter) to rain down on the infidels ..

yes it was something about such a detailed plan for a Death Star .. that you would be able to build one only with wet blankets .. it's true!

Yes .. but all rumors are currently labeled "Top Secret", as these would affect national security!

No. You see, math are built upon a framework called logic. Logic is a man-made abstract construct that obeys a few simple and well defined rules, which are not principles or postulates, they are just instructions. As such, they don't need to be true from a transcendental standpoint (it wouldn't make sense), they just need to be clear. Since mathematics follow those rules, mathematics are always true within the logic framework they operate in. But it turns out that outside that framework, they are not only baseless, but also meaningless. And since they are fundamentally abstract, their relation with anything meaningful in the "real" world is not immediate and must be drawn by science. Mathematics are just a tool, they don't have a "sense" which you can discuss. They just are. And the reason this is that way is because we have defined them that way. The same reasoning goes for science, only their framework is the physical world. If you try to apply them outside of it, they don't make sense. It is reasonable to think that since we didn't define the physical reality, science, being a human tool to rationalize it, is not as accurate as mathematics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ahh, but then we agree .. within it's own (this was the key word) system math is perfect! of course you've actually said that earlier, but that just proves I'm fallible too! " so Random Evil Guy (what a wierd way of adressing a person actually), if you were saying this as well, we have nothing to argue about either! Math, in relation to "reality" (all layers included), and out of it's own system, becomes uncertain! But within it's own boundries, and following it's own rules, it just is .. kinda like God ..

you know .. I was considering that .. but it was just too out of the ordinary to do it .. which would make them kinda happy! see my dilemma?

Ah...yes. Father & daughter consolidating their wounds as they make peace with one another in each other's arms - and the water takes them. :cool: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he was talking about Schindler's list

funny thing is .. I think it's a ****ty film!

sorry .. "Deep Impact" .. so used to just calling it "Impact"! Lucius: Guess you watched TV2 as well? ^_^ it's a damn good film!

I would love to see the proof of that .. Math is logical yes .. math seems very certatin true! but it's not some kind of divine/superior/what-have-you system that you bow down before in total submission .. what you see, what you believe to be certain, is simply interpretations of your brains and rooted habits .. just because you have a staunch faith in math doesn't make it real or true .. same with God! but because we have become so used to the former we simply accept it without question .. which is what this thread is insulting religious people for doing with their belief!

see .. this was part of the reason why I thought you were a chick at first Kaftan! but anywho! There's only one movie which can make me cry .. and it baffles me why to this day (and I kid you not) it's "Impact" .. drag me through the most tear-wrenching movies you got, and I will come out dry on the other end.. but put on "Impact" and I'll weep like a baby! .. And I have no idea why! not even "The Passion Of The Christ" could make me cry ..

huh? of course it's something you believe in .. everything is! how can you be 100% certain of anything?? you can't .. everything requires different degrees of faith, nothing is certain, and that includes science and mathematics!

hmm I keep reading that as .. "I would make your parents happy" :ph34r: but it depends on the parents .. mine would hate me if I was plain, simple and normal ..

It still requires belief .. because you believe in the system of logic and mathematics .. science proves it self within this system, which can't be proven out of own boundries .. like religion, so therefore it requires faith as well! and to use a Holdberg's Montanus string of logic Science is therefore a Religion! No because if you prove something in a religion it seizes to be about faith .. and when it's about faith some people, who are addicted to logic, find it stupid .. Religion doesn't need, and is better without, the scientific approach of evidence .. Disclaimer: everything here is of course just my opinion

Have we run out of useless information .. I never thought such a thing was possible!?

The irony here is that most of you use scientific theories as arguments .. but I seriously doubt that you have studied, calculated and pondered deeply over these theories yourself! so how come a devout Christian/Muslim has to put his belief in the context of science, when you accept the latter's words, and just as gullible, as the religious accept the scriptures? now you may argue that new theories arise, and you read up on those, while religion is stagnant .. but it's still the same pattern, you accept it without doing research yourself .. trusting the words of others, simply because they seem to know what they are talking about .. how is this any different, fundamentally, from devoted religious people??