Rosbjerg

No. You see, math are built upon a framework called logic. Logic is a man-made abstract construct that obeys a few simple and well defined rules, which are not principles or postulates, they are just instructions. As such, they don't need to be true from a transcendental standpoint (it wouldn't make sense), they just need to be clear. Since mathematics follow those rules, mathematics are always true within the logic framework they operate in. But it turns out that outside that framework, they are not only baseless, but also meaningless. And since they are fundamentally abstract, their relation with anything meaningful in the "real" world is not immediate and must be drawn by science. Mathematics are just a tool, they don't have a "sense" which you can discuss. They just are. And the reason this is that way is because we have defined them that way. The same reasoning goes for science, only their framework is the physical world. If you try to apply them outside of it, they don't make sense. It is reasonable to think that since we didn't define the physical reality, science, being a human tool to rationalize it, is not as accurate as mathematics. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ahh, but then we agree .. within it's own (this was the key word) system math is perfect! of course you've actually said that earlier, but that just proves I'm fallible too! " so Random Evil Guy (what a wierd way of adressing a person actually), if you were saying this as well, we have nothing to argue about either! Math, in relation to "reality" (all layers included), and out of it's own system, becomes uncertain! But within it's own boundries, and following it's own rules, it just is .. kinda like God ..

you know .. I was considering that .. but it was just too out of the ordinary to do it .. which would make them kinda happy! see my dilemma?

Ah...yes. Father & daughter consolidating their wounds as they make peace with one another in each other's arms - and the water takes them. :cool: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> he was talking about Schindler's list

funny thing is .. I think it's a ****ty film!

sorry .. "Deep Impact" .. so used to just calling it "Impact"! Lucius: Guess you watched TV2 as well? ^_^ it's a damn good film!

I would love to see the proof of that .. Math is logical yes .. math seems very certatin true! but it's not some kind of divine/superior/what-have-you system that you bow down before in total submission .. what you see, what you believe to be certain, is simply interpretations of your brains and rooted habits .. just because you have a staunch faith in math doesn't make it real or true .. same with God! but because we have become so used to the former we simply accept it without question .. which is what this thread is insulting religious people for doing with their belief!

see .. this was part of the reason why I thought you were a chick at first Kaftan! but anywho! There's only one movie which can make me cry .. and it baffles me why to this day (and I kid you not) it's "Impact" .. drag me through the most tear-wrenching movies you got, and I will come out dry on the other end.. but put on "Impact" and I'll weep like a baby! .. And I have no idea why! not even "The Passion Of The Christ" could make me cry ..

huh? of course it's something you believe in .. everything is! how can you be 100% certain of anything?? you can't .. everything requires different degrees of faith, nothing is certain, and that includes science and mathematics!

hmm I keep reading that as .. "I would make your parents happy" :ph34r: but it depends on the parents .. mine would hate me if I was plain, simple and normal ..

It still requires belief .. because you believe in the system of logic and mathematics .. science proves it self within this system, which can't be proven out of own boundries .. like religion, so therefore it requires faith as well! and to use a Holdberg's Montanus string of logic Science is therefore a Religion! No because if you prove something in a religion it seizes to be about faith .. and when it's about faith some people, who are addicted to logic, find it stupid .. Religion doesn't need, and is better without, the scientific approach of evidence .. Disclaimer: everything here is of course just my opinion

Have we run out of useless information .. I never thought such a thing was possible!?

The irony here is that most of you use scientific theories as arguments .. but I seriously doubt that you have studied, calculated and pondered deeply over these theories yourself! so how come a devout Christian/Muslim has to put his belief in the context of science, when you accept the latter's words, and just as gullible, as the religious accept the scriptures? now you may argue that new theories arise, and you read up on those, while religion is stagnant .. but it's still the same pattern, you accept it without doing research yourself .. trusting the words of others, simply because they seem to know what they are talking about .. how is this any different, fundamentally, from devoted religious people??

What's the point of empirical science? since everything is a matter of perspective and what you see is your brains interpretation of the so called reality .. every observation becomes subjective and thus meaningless in the bigger picture! Religion and science are far apart, and you can't use the rules from either and apply them to the other .. but they do share a common ground - Faith - since science, as was previously stated, doesn't really prove anything, it just gives a good (and logic within it's own system) explanation of certain events! so it requires a bit of belief and faith as well ..

Why? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> what do you mean "why?" .. Communism is the only way to go dude! everything else is an illusion! ^_^

without any people a religion would be perfect .. this of course applies to anything in this world .. as Douglas Adams said: To summerize the summary; People are a problem!

Hazey Jane ... Best underground music I know, it's a small, totally unknown, band! but they are somewhat of an acquired taste I think .. I love 'em because I saw them live once, during one of the coolest concerts of my life! And like always I'm listning to my alltime favorite Kashmir

hmm .. you might wanna tell that to the police instead .. unless you want some of us here to solve your evil crimes and save a desperate blond girl in the last minute before you kill her, preferably after a big chase through an abanboned warehouse, old sewers or the closed section of the subways .. where we then kill you, but then when we think everything is safe you mysteriously return from the dead only to be killed yet another time ..

I still respect their opinion (except for the suicide bombers) .. I can understand why you would be against euthanasia or abortion, and they have the right to oppose it .. I think it's should be allowed, but that's just my opinion .. my word is not worth more simply because I don't believe in their God, or theirs because they do .. and I think it's good to show your faith if you posess it! and stick to the scripture, otherwise you can't call yourself Christian, Muslim etc imo. I thought you meant it should be banned .. but you just meant orginazed religion I guess then .. which is incline to agree with you upon, but I'm a bit ambivalent on that subject and need to study the full extent of it better before I can make up my mind!

No, it isn't. Religion is something you choose, while morality is something that, in the unlikely case that you lack it, is imposed on you by law. Perhaps in the past it was religion that inspired some philosophers and pointed them in the right direction regarding moral issues, but today, organized religion is nothing but a tool for control of the masses, and an obstacle in the way of social progress. At the very least, I think we can all agree that organized religion does more harm than good. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Controlling the masses? I don't know about you, but the local priest here has absolutely no influence over my life .. Religion is nothing today, not even a means of control .. it's simply faith, some believe some don't .. sure some countries are under the influence of power hungry Imam or Pope (or whatever) .. but if they didn't have religion they would use something else, like Hitler or Lenin/Stalin did for instance .. so just because some stupid **** use religion to control certain aspects of life doesn't mean religion in general is a bad thing! Religion holds a certain place in our history and our culture, laws are based on religious morals .. so I don't think we should ban it!

Nice one! How about KOTOR 3: Crouching Wookiee, Hidden Gizka <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hmm that would be a pretty strange film methinks .. Wookies flying around doing martial arts! what about these: KOTOR 3: The Unusual Aspects or Citizen Bane ?

:ph34r: = : ph34r : = fear.gif

isn't in ph34r? :ph34r:

We are a funny species .. so preoccupied with ourselves that we forgot ourselves .. ironic really ..

So THAT's why my HS boyfriend got me into D&D... Well, guess his plan worked. Too bad we stopped seeing each other 11 years ago. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well the reason I really do it is because it's more fun to play with some female input .. it get's kinda monotome if it's always 6 guys .. but the above plan does work if you are able to make her addicted to it ..

My approach is to make nerds out of beautiful girls .. like playing D&D with 'em and letting them play The Sims .. in a matter of days you will have a dedicated slave at hand thirsty for more .. and you control the one way for her to quench her nerdy thirst! muhahahaha