Katarack21

The Dirty Masticator

It's not a paddle, though. It's a sword. It decapitates, it does not slap.

Bastards' Teeth.

Spiritual successor doesn't continue because people are fools; it continues because the ideas and concepts--the tropes--behind it are useful manipulative techniques. Obsidian deliberately drew a connection between PoE and BG, and they also deliberately marketed a campaign based around the nostalgia tropes. Given both these things, they knew a certain portion of their consumer base would naturally associate PoE as the "spiritual successor of BG" without the having to explicitly make the statement themselves. Doing it this way is more powerful than saying it directly because the end belief *feels* like something you came to yourself, when really it's deliberately engineered.

Yes! It is a macuahuitl bat'leth--a bat'leth made using a macuahuitl design, from carved wood with obsidian blades placed in the edge.

I'm using that as an analogy to reference the unconscious emotional manipulation. I could as easily point at the word "halitosis" as you are pointing at "spiritual successor"; both are examples of the manipulation of emotional states to achieve a marketing goal. I'm saying that people keep coming back to that--hell, it's even on the Wiki page!--not because the person is a fool, but *because* of that nostalgia-based marketing campaign continuously drawing those unconscious associations between PoE and Baldur's Gate. All of those nostalgia-based things, with the exception of Fallout, reference or refer to Baldur's Gate in some way--even KOTOR 2, which is a sequel to a game made by the same people who made Baldur's Gate. That's why people keep bringing it up, that's why it keeps being referenced, that's why the idea is stuck in peoples head *and it was put there deliberately as a marketing ploy without ever saying it directly*. That's my point, in a nutshell.

All I'm saying is that the deliberate and knowing use of this technique by Obsidian is why people keep coming back to the "spiritual successor" idea even though Obsidian never directly stated it, and that they probably did this intentionally to sell ****. That's all; it's not because people are stupid and don't understand what "spiritual successor" means, it's because Obsidian used this marketing technique to make people feel like this.

It's like we're both talking to a brick wall. "a custom, principle, or belief distinguishing a particular class or group of people, especially a long-standing one regarded as outmoded or no longer important." Now a question for you: Have you ever read "Propaganda"? It's not the "warm fuzzies about IE games" that's important; it's the unconcious connections that people naturally draw between the Infinity Engine and Baldur's Gate, specifically. Not everyone, not all the time--but enough people, enough of the time.

So somehow or another physical strength in the Pillars of Eternity universe seems to stand for muscles and spiritual strength. There could be a handwave to this (something like a body-soul interface that requires physical strength to channel the full magical spiritual strength safely or something while mental strength allows one to channel for longer whatever amount of energy ones strength allows to be funneled through the body) but I'm not sure one is ever made in the game. The way i see it is that the power of a person's soul can be channelled as both magic or physical strength. There are differences in muscular physical strength between individuals, but they are minimal in comparison to the differences that channeling your soul power can generate. So the power of the soul overrides physical laws, or does Eora has physical laws that are different from our own? Jam it into the back of its knee or ankle. Evade the swing, jab it into the wrist or elbow. Get in close and go for the deep veins and arteries in the inner leg (assuming ogre anatomy is roughly analogous to human.) Stats are just abstractions. Do we have actual confirmation of the "soul power" thing, or is this just us trying to fix the plot hole the game left us with? No, that's literally from the guidebook. And that's also the definition of the "hobble" effect, btw. Right, but that's how a man-sized creature would fight a creature many times their size. You have to bring it down to a level where you can reach its vital organs (or an agile class might instead choose to climb onto it and seek out vital organs that way.) Disabling it by attacking joints would be a primary means of doing this. Fair, but all I'm saying is that I feel if that was the intention then they'd probably have it have that effect instead of simply knocking them prone. The animation and the effect all imply that the sheer force of impact is knocking the targeted creature down, and that this is being done with a wooden stiletto works well with the lore of soul-power being used to power fighter strikes.

Not repeating, rephrasing and adding additional information. I didn't "leave it out", I did the accepted and normal "..." to indicate there is additional portions to the quote but that I was simply using the bit that was applicable to the statement that I was making; I cited where it came from in my second post so that you could go and look at it yourself, so that you could verify. I wasn't hiding anything or attempting to deceive anybody in any way. I don't think you understand what I'm saying about Bernaysian marketing. It's not about making the purchaser *believe* that this is going to happen. That's not how it works and that's not what I was saying. As you've pointed out, that's *clearly* ridiculous. You are correct on that. It's about making the person *feel* on an emotional level as if this might be a possible thing. Even if they know it isn't, the feeling that it might be will influence *most* peoples decisions *most* of the time. This is real fact; they've done literally hundreds of studies, they *count* on this to sell their products, this *works*. Statistically you can *count* that certain percentages will be affected by this certain amounts of the time, and you can use that to predict successful marketing campaigns by manipulating peoples emotional states--like making them feel like they'll get the same fun they had playing this one particular game without ever saying "this game is a spiritual successor to that game."; just like you make a person *feel* that they'll get laid if they drink this beer without ever telling them, or trying to make them actually believe, that they'll get laid if they drink this beer. This is the technique that was pioneered by Edward Bernays in the 1920's. It's the technique that turned deoderant from a "pansy product for sissies' into a mainstream product. It's what turned Listerine form a floor cleaner into a mouthwash. It's what powered the entire WWII propaganda machine. It's what Bernays wrote about in his 1928 book "Propaganda", and he wrote about how to do it in his 1955 essay "The Engineering of Consent". It's a technique he developed using Freudian psychology, and that he sold to US corporations beginning in the 1910's. It's literally what all modern marketing techinques are built on, and it's what Obisdian did with their kickstarter techniques. Did they ever say "PoE is a spiritual successor to BG"? No. Of course not. They did everything in their power to make people *feel* like that, counting on a large chunk of their fanbase to feel exactly that way and act on that feeling. The whole marketing campaign was focused around making people feel as if PoE was going to make them feel like Baldurs Gate made them feel. Icewind Dale, Fallout, all of these were mentioned but other than Fallout, literally all of these are dependent on and in some way pointing back to Baldur's Gate. When they say "the people who worked on the Infinity Engine", that's "the people who worked on Baldur's Gate", because that's Baldur's Gate's engine--that's the game it's most strongly associated with because that's the game it was literally built and designed for, and they *knew* that when they said it! That's how Bernaysian marketing works--you draw correlations that create unconcious awareness in the mind of your consumer that drive the emotional state and behaviors of those consumers. That's what I'm saying. That's what they did. They knowingly and deliberately--because it's a common and basic marketing technique--used the connection between the people at Obsidian and Baldur's Gate to manipulate the emotional state of consumers into *feeling* as if PoE would be a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, without ever actually saying so.

I was apparently confusing it with Tyranny status effects. Bleed would be the *perfect* one for them, though! Boerer is right; the "Wounding" enchantment is the closest in PoE. PS: I have found the single most badass weapon I have ever seen. The full-size picture is no longer available, but check it out. It's a mahuactl...of particular, unique design.

and what exactly do you think that means? It means that they deliberatly marketed the game based on nostalgia for Baldur's Gate. They knew *damn* well what they were doing. It was Bernaysian marketing--make the people *feel* like they'll get their old sense of fun back even if they logically know it's not the same game. It's like a beer commercial where they show a guy drinking this brand of beer and then suddenly surround by sexy women taking off their clothes. They don't *say* that drinking their beer will make you get laid, but you, me, and they all know what they're saying. This isn't secret ****. This is Marketing 101. all of which makes the "spiritual successor" bit meaningless. is not a promise o'... anything. obsidian were guilty o' attempting to use nostalgia for bg to sell poe? *feigned shock* review: obsidian never said "spiritual successor" and 'ccording to you, the bg magic bit is akin to using hot chicks to sell beer? ... in parlance you might be familiar with, you is doing a terrible job o' selling us on the notion o' "spiritual successor" being more than shibboleth. HA! Good Fun! Obsidian marketed PoE based on nostalgia for Baldurs Gate, using the names of people who worked on Baldur's Gate and the fact that they did so as a selling point, promising a game in the style of the IE engine that is primarily known for Baldur's Gate. They marketed is as "bringing back the magic of Baldur's Gate". Did they say "spiritual successor"? No, but they did everything in their power to make you think "spiritual successor" without actually doing so. It's a technique called "engineering consent", it was very well done, it's very clear, and I can even give you the history on who designed this technique and how it was implemented if you wish. I'm not bull****ting you here. I'm not making this up and I'm not putting out some theory. This a known aspect of marketing in the business world. This is how it's done, and this is what they did.

Because people don't want mental and physical prowess to be tied to the same stat due to the disconnect it causes with reality. I think it has been said in different ways for quite a few times already in this thread alone. Might indeed works as designed, but people don't like the design in the first place so that point is moot. When you say people, you mean some people. Some people may not like it, some people actually like the consistency of a damage stat being all in one. That's exactly accurate. There's, what, ten people in here that care? Not even the majority of *this thread*. Let alone *this board*, which is only a tiny fragment of PoE players. *PEOPLE*, in general, really don't care. PoE players, in general, really don't care. Most of them don't bother to comment or remark, let alone go to a message board and complain about it repeatedly. Most people who have played PoE have never complained about Might, because most people who have played PoE--the vast majority of the over-one-million--don't care enough to do so.

Any way we could get a hint on whether or not the machuatl would be as unique a weapon as we are hoping?

--causes bleed --negative damage penalty against metal armored targets (like a negative damage penetration, basically)

That's cool, I didn't know that.

and what exactly do you think that means? It means that they deliberately marketed the game based on nostalgia for Baldur's Gate. They knew *damn* well what they were doing. It was Bernaysian marketing--make the people *feel* like they'll get their old sense of fun back even if they logically know it's not the same game. It's like a beer commercial where they show a guy drinking this brand of beer and then suddenly surround by sexy women taking off their clothes. They don't *say* that drinking their beer will make you get laid, but you, me, and they all know what they're saying. This isn't secret ****. This is Marketing 101. BTWs, that *was* a quote from *OBSIDIAN*. From their KICKSTARTER video, direct.

That's frickin' wicked!!

"obsidian never claimed that poe were a spiritual successor to bg as you claimed." "Project Eternity aims to bring back the magic from Baldur's Gate..." That's a quote.

Jam it into the back of its knee or ankle. Evade the swing, jab it into the wrist or elbow. Get in close and go for the deep veins and arteries in the inner leg (assuming ogre anatomy is roughly analogous to human.) Stats are just abstractions. Do we have actual confirmation of the "soul power" thing, or is this just us trying to fix the plot hole the game left us with? No, that's literally from the guidebook. And that's also the definition of the "hobble" effect, btw.

Again, you can stab a guy in steel full plate with a stiletto made of *wood*. I don't think realism should factor in!

There's further pledging available; another 400 bucks (or around there, not an exact figure!) for "Create an Item" in addition to the Pirate Crew that we already achieved, so your donation would *totally* be appreciated! There's another thread dedicated to a poll and discussion about the item--what we would want it to be, etc.

Well probably not, because protective spells are still available during combat. The buffing variety remains in place, but now you have to assess the risk in using those spells versus using attack spells. If anything, I'd say that adds complexity. Yeah, but look at the rest of my post. PoE doesn't have the spell-vs-spell buffing/blocking component where you have to decide which types of spells you're likely to get hit with, which ones you care most about blocking, who you want to protect, etc. That's the aspect of Baldur's Gate pre-buffing that was always *to much* for me and I hated, but which I felt was a degree of complexity that is often missing in modern RPG magic systems. Then again, for what it's worth I beat BG2 a ton of times and never bothered much with pre-buffing beyond basic low-level spells like Bark Skin and such. It's not *necessary* to beat BG2; my own experience showed that to me pretty directly. That pre-buffing and such is an entirely voluntary decision that one chooses to use as part of their own strategy/tactics or chooses not to.

Aren't the layering of spells pre-combat in order to prevent or avoid certain types of attacks and effects simply another layer of strategy/tactics which PoE has completely removed from their gameplay? In that specific sense, PoE has *removed* a layer of complexity. Specifically I'm thinking here of the various different spell protections in D&D, which over specific levels of spells or specific types of spells, thus making you have to trade off which spells you are protected from and decide which form of protection you really want. Until you get *really* high in level, when you can then both block off multiple spell levels and also get access to spells that can't be blocked at all. In general I've always felt D&D has a very complex and interactive spell-vs-spell system, especially factoring in things like Spellcraft, Dispel Magic, etc.

Let's see. In PoE, we have bladed or blunt weapons usable against solid iron full plate which are made of: --Wood --Palasite (britle meteoric iron containing large chunks of peridot) --Gilded bronze --Moon rock Also, shields made of wood which suffer literally *no* damage of *any* sort when hit by large iron axes repeatedly.