oaktownbrown

Cantousent, how do I cut down on the quote tree? I tried deleting a lot of it in most of my posts ITT. I deleted the text but couldn't figure out how to delete the names of the people with the prior (now empty) posts. Thanks for any help.

This is all I could find about why you thought magic was better in D:OS: "is more fun to play with the enviorements and the different effects of the magics than what you have in POE where everything does damage and the only difference is the color of the effects thats it, nothing interesting at all and the other spells are cc and buffs/debuffs (it was hilarious how you added debuffs as if somehow now because i forgot to say debuffs then suddenly the magic is not crap... LOOOL)" Other than teleport and featherfall, which I have already agreed are good spells and that I wish that they had some out of combat spells (like teleport) in PoE, I can't figure out anything else from what you've written, except that you don't like the magic or spell colors in PoE. Unless the spells are OP (which I wouldn't like), a couple of spells are not going to make or break magic in any decent RPG. So it boils down to "D:OS magic is better bc I say so". And if you think that anything that you wrote there was clearly stated, we disagree about that as well. Cant EDIT:

"yes DOS has better combat but I MYSELF prefer POE combat" thats fine, you dont have to like it better but thing is DOS has factually better combat than POE something you even said" I never said that. I even explained the difference between combat mechanics and how combat plays out in game bc it seemed like you didn't understand this basic distinction. Apparently, you either still don't, you can't read, or you are intentionally lying about what I said. "When that happes and it always happens in POE all you need to do is unleash your AOEs in them (CC or damage or whatever) and thats every combat in POE. EZ as ****. DOS sin combat is more strategic and plays better, you really need to think where you are going to position your characters and where are you going to unleash your AOE because there is no safezone for AOEs in that gamea bunch of characters going against each other and making a huge mob in the middle of the battlefield where everybody is clustered, looks ridiculous and plays ridiculous." Your description of combat in PoE doesn't match my experience. I can let that happen if I want or I can avoid it. I usually avoid it. I also rarely had any problems with AoEs in D:OS. I used positioning more in PoE than I did in D:OS, where CC made positioning (and almost everything else) irrelevant most of the time. It sounds like we had very different playstyles in both games. Parenthetically, I think one of the weaknesses of PoE's party combat is that positioning is often too important so we really disagree about this. "Magic in DOS is just 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better than in POE i shouldnt have to explain why" OK, but if you aren't going to explain why, don't complain about ppl who disagree with you or say that you aren't contributing to the discussion. "Because I said so" isn't a good answer. "DOS is WAAAAAY more fun adn have more challenge and strategy in the end because in POE all the combats go in the same direction mob vs mob gets clustered in the middle--->Unleash AOE, thats it, stop pretending there is more to it because it isnt." You must have rested far more often than I did in PoE. Even when soloing with a caster, I didn't use AoEs all the time bc I didn't have that many spells, even at level 9, which I think is the highest level I got to. You can choose to play that way and if you enjoy it, that's fine. I'm not sure why you'd do that if you don't find it fun, though. "both games become rather easy as you progress in the game, thing is DOS is WAAAAAY more fun adn have more challenge and strategy in the end" I disagree. D:OS was very easy by the time I got to the lighthouse, much less by the time I got to Evelyn or anywhere near the end of the game. Other players on Steam had a similar experience. Don't make it sound like you have to "progress in the game" before it gets easy in D:OS. And PoE stayed hard for me until the end when I played solo PotD or when I used sneak to avoid most combat. The two games may have been similarly difficult for you (and that is fine) but that was not my experience with the two games. I'm sure there are ppl for whom D:OS stayed challenging to the end and who found PoE easy from almost the beginning. Stop acting like your experience of the two games is the only valid one. I don't use party AI. I hate it. It makes sense that you like it since you don't like to individually manage your party members. I know that some others also like to use party AI so it make sense to offer good party AI if it's not too expensive to implement. Maybe now that they have it, they can tweak it to make it better. "They need to add more ACTIVE mechanics instead on just passive BS happening on the bakcground, i mean all of those debuffs and buffs that you most of the time dont even notice because you dont even care and there is too much **** going on to begin with that you just ignore all that, better do more active stuff, i dont know what but something that makes the combat more interactive," I really like the buffs and debuffs. I've paid attention to them since I picked up Durance in my first playthrough and they are one of the things I like the most about PoE. It's fun to have all the party members helping each other by using afflictions that target a spell or damage from melee or ranged. But I like managing my party and you don't so it's not surprising that you would ignore that and find it boring. We clearly have very different playstyles and find different things interesting in combat. To me, paying attention to an enemy's saves and how various debuffs affect them is active and enjoyable. It sounds like you want different kinds of active stuff bc you don't like the kind in PoE. I like how D:OS handled stealth. I'd like to see PoE come closer to that. And the different types of arrows in D:OS were also fun to play with. To me, that is a lot like how debuffs affect enemies in PoE, bc you need to pay attention to combos and often have different party members work together, but it sounds like it isn't for you. Thanks for the suggestions. Cant EDIT: just cut down on the quote tree. The post itself seems perfectly fine as it is.

Now you talk about repetitive encounters and that it was "too easy" when you leveled up... POE is the same Zerg vs ZERG all over again your spells are damage/buffs/CC, THATS IT, talking about repetitive **** and this game is the epitome of repetition... and its normal to become powerful in an RPG and feel that some stuff is easier when you level up, maybe you should stop playing RPG if you dont like the reward of becoming powerfull in a game. What? Is this a response to what I said? What's a zerg? Are you disputing that I found D:OS's encounters repetitive, boring, and far too easy? Many others felt the same way. In D:OS you automatically gained a level. You couldn't delay it like you can in PoE. So when I went to areas with enemies far above my level in D:OS, I gained a lot of XP and automatically gained a lot of levels and vitality very quickly, making the combat even easier when I was trying to make it harder. I appreciate that PoE lets the player decide when to level up because it's a good way to allow the player to control the difficulty of the game. You can stay at a low level but go to areas with tougher enemies. It's also a callback to the IE games so that reminder of those games is nice for me. Player controlled leveling is a mechanic that many RPGs don't have and I really wish that they did. You may like being able to sleepwalk through 90% of a game's combat like I did in D:OS but I don't. I prefer either being able to avoid combat altogether or else have challenging combat. For me, PoE's combat was far more challenging than D:OS's combat, although I think PoE also suffers from repetitive encounters. If you think D:OS's combat was more challenging than PoE's, what did you find more challenging about it? How would you make PoE's more challenging? That might make for a far more interesting discussion than you repeatedly calling people fanboys. Here are the points you made: 1. PoE is zerg vs zerg. I asked what that meant bc I don't play MMOs. How can I answer when I don't know what you're saying? Apparently, it refers to an overleveled or overgeared group running through an area in order to get specific gear. I don't see how that applies to PoE. I never did that in PoE. It could apply to D:OS's loot, though, bc of the Diablo-style loot that was severely leveled. I hated that in D:OS and rarely used the gear I found bc it made the combat easier and I was trying to make it harder. The loot I found in D:OS was almost always for many levels beyond my characters anyway. So I don't see how that applies to the way I played either game. I agreed that the encounters in both PoE and D:OS were repetitive. I think that's a weakness of both games. 2. your spells are damage/buffs/CC, THATS IT, talking about repetitive **** I agree but I'd add debuff. Debuff spells were the spells that I used most often in PoE except for my solo PotD run, where I used CC more. I don't have a problem with that. Just bc it's a drawback for you doesn't mean that it will be a problem for everyone. Most of the spells in D:OS are also CC, damage, or buff spells. I did like the teleport and featherfall spells in D:OS. I liked being able to use them to solve problems out of combat as well as in combat. One problem that I had with those spells was that it didn't seem like the enemy AI in D:OS used spells like teleport or many of the best spells or tactics, especially using good combos. I think that this is a problem that both D:OS and PoE have, along with many other games unless you use a great mod like SCS. Unfortunately, mods that fix poor enemy AI are very rare. I wish that PoE had more out of combat spells but I thought that was because of the limitations of Unity where IIRC even using a spell like "charm beast" starts combat. (Ideally IMO it would not and you could use charm spells to solve problems and completely avoid combat.) IMO out of combat spells are less important and, given the limited budget of PoE (and games like Shadowrun: Dragonfall), I didn't expect them to be in PoE. I hope that Obsidian will add some as well as non-combat solutions for problems for PoE2. 3. its normal to become powerful in an RPG and feel that some stuff is easier when you level up, maybe you should stop playing RPG if you dont like the reward of becoming powerfull in a game. I also addressed this. I disagree, especially if you're talking about becoming very powerful before you even leave the starting town like I did in D:OS. I prefer that I either be able to avoid combat or that combat be challenging. Obviously, we have different preferences but that doesn't mean I didn't address the issue. You also suggested that I stop playing RPGs if I don't like being really powerful. I love RPGs and there are many where I don't become very powerful until near the end of the game. So I'll keep playing RPGs and give preference to those which have a better power curve than D:OS did for me. In some of those, like PoE, I need to not level or play solo in order to do that but that is fine with me. You can keep playing the RPGs that quickly let you become a god or that otherwise have the kind of power progression you prefer. I don't have a problem with that since we'll both play the RPGs that we like best. What other points did you make that I haven't responded to? You, OTOH, have not responded to my points: 1. People have different preferences in RPGs. That is normal and there is nothing wrong with ppl who like different RPGs than you do (or I do or any of us do). 2. Many people thought that combat in D:OS became far too easy too quickly. Why should they like combat in D:OS? 2b. If they thought combat in PoE was more fun or challenging than combat in D:OS, why should they prefer D:OS's combat to PoE's? Why are they any more of a fanboy than someone who thought D:OS's combat was more fun or challeging who prefers D:OS's combat to PoE's? 3. What, specifically, did you like about D:OS's combat, besides less micro-management than PoE's combat and a few spells that were not damage, buffs, or CC? In what ways was it more challenging than PoE's? I like the micromanagement in PoE. I understand that some ppl don't like it but others do. Just like some ppl prefer turn-based combat and others prefer RTwP. 4. What would you change about PoE's combat to make it more challenging? I don't think adding more spells would make it more challenging. If anything, it would make it less challenging, unless the enemy AI also used those spells well. Cant EDIT:

You keep calling others fanboys but you seem like the fanboy here. If you like D:OS better than PoE, that's fine with me. As I said, it's very subjective. You seem to be the one who can't stand it if someone doesn't like your favorite game as much as they like other game Now you talk about repetitive encounters and that it was "too easy" when you leveled up... POE is the same Zerg vs ZERG all over again your spells are damage/buffs/CC, THATS IT, talking about repetitive **** and this game is the epitome of repetition... and its normal to become powerful in an RPG and feel that some stuff is easier when you level up, maybe you should stop playing RPG if you dont like the reward of becoming powerfull in a game. Fanboy. What? Is this a response to what I said? What's a zerg? Are you disputing that I found D:OS's encounters repetitive, boring, and far too easy? Many others felt the same way. In D:OS you automatically gained a level. You couldn't delay it like you can in PoE. So when I went to areas with enemies far above my level in D:OS, I gained a lot of XP and automatically gained a lot of levels and vitality very quickly, making the combat even easier when I was trying to make it harder. I appreciate that PoE lets the player decide when to level up because it's a good way to allow the player to control the difficulty of the game. You can stay at a low level but go to areas with tougher enemies. It's also a callback to the IE games so that reminder of those games is nice for me. Player controlled leveling is a mechanic that many RPGs don't have and I really wish that they did. You may like being able to sleepwalk through 90% of a game's combat like I did in D:OS but I don't. I prefer either being able to avoid combat altogether or else have challenging combat. For me, PoE's combat was far more challenging than D:OS's combat, although I think PoE also suffers from repetitive encounters. If you think D:OS's combat was more challenging than PoE's, what did you find more challenging about it? How would you make PoE's more challenging? That might make for a far more interesting discussion than you repeatedly calling people fanboys.

DOS combat >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> POE combat, there is nothing subjective in that. "I liked the combat mechanics of D:OS much better than the combat mechanics of PoE" ---> "I prefer PoE's combat" Cant EDIT: :Cant's long suffering grin icon: Combat is more than the mechanics. (I didn't even like all of the mechanics but I liked being able to teleport, being able to combine spells like oil and flame or oil and flame arrow and I liked the way Larian handled AP. I thought Larian did an excellent job with that.) You can have great mechanics and boring and repetitive encounters, bad enemy AI, etc., i.e. bad combat if you look at actual gameplay and not some hypothetical construct of how great these mechanics would be if they were used well. In D:OS's case, the encounters were boring for me because they were far too easy after about early level three. That's very early in the game. I could use the same tactics in every fight and even when I tried switching tactics, the fights were pretty much the same. The fights were too easy even with house rules like no healing in combat, only wearing low level robes, no using companions, etc. At least in PoE, I could make the combat fun with house rules, e.g., not leveling up when I could, limited resting. If you like D:OS better than PoE, that's fine with me. As I said, it's very subjective. You seem to be the one who can't stand it if someone doesn't like your favorite game as much as they like other games. Cant EDIT: Removed more fanboy stuff.

OP, I had the same problem. I got most of the way through Defiance Bay and got bored. Part of my problem was that I did too many sidequests but I balanced that by not leveling up when I could. I had enough points to be around level 7 but only leveled through level 4. I like that you can choose to level up or not in PoE. Even with that, the game was somewhat boring for me so I quit for a while. The bounties were pretty fun at level 4, though. I switched to solo PotD. It was a lot of fun for me. I had to be very careful during many of the fights. To be honest, I probably would have struggled more with some of them if I hadn't already been through those areas either with the party I'd abandoned or in the beta. I also did a run where I tried to sneak and avoid combat. It was pretty fun to go through the Endless Paths with as few fights as possible. I agree that paying attention to afflictions makes the game more interesting. I didn't do that in the beginning but I did after a while just because it was more fun for me to use my party members to help each other. It gave me a way to vary the tactics I used. Cant EDIT: see post above. Which game you like more is very subjective. I liked the combat mechanics of D:OS much better than the combat mechanics of PoE. E.g., it was a lot of fun to teleport enemies, set them on fire, etc. However, for me, combat in D:OS became much too easy after the first few levels. Overall, I prefer PoE's combat, although both have repetitive encounters. I liked the writing, dialog, and companions more in PoE, though all of those areas had problems in PoE as well. I know other people who didn't think that the combat was much too easy in D:OS, or at least not until pretty far into the game. Understandably, they like D:OS's combat, and generally D:OS itself, far more than I do.

It doesn't bother me. I haven't leveled up my character since getting to Defiance Bay. I currently have around 47K xp. The encounters are more challenging with a low level character. I do the quests that seem in character to learn more about the lore and the world. I do the bounties bc the combat is usually challenging, unlike the combat in most of the game, and for the loot. I think that the main problem is that there is too large a range for characters level in Act II. Your character could reasonably be anywhere from level 3 through level 12. I don't see how Obsidian could balance the encounters for such a large range. Even if they made a few of the encounters easy as a way to encourage ppl to do those first, they would still probably need encounters that were interesting for characters from level 5 or 6 to level 10 or 11. I don't see how that is possible. To OP, would finding interesting loot help?

Your proposed system would make me more likely to dump less useful stats in order to get the stats that are more useful for my character's role in the party bc the upside of maximizing the stats that governed my character's primary role would be much more beneficial than the other stats. E.g., if I wanted a low damage tank, per, res, and con would be much more important to my character than intel, might, or dex so the discrepancy between a build with, e.g., all 12s, and a build with maxed per, res, and con would be even greater than it is now. Now, I didn't dump any stat below 8, partly for RP reasons, but if your suggestion were implemented I would have a hard time not further dumping con on my character bc the rewards for pumping intel, might, and dex would be greater than they are now. (I realize the penalties for dumping con and, to a lesser extent, per and res would be greater too but those attributes are not as important for my build.) I agree with others that a large part of the problem in PoE is that tank and spank works too well and is very useful in too many encounters, which encourages players to build a high deflection character that can dump might, dex, and intel or a high damage character that can dump resolve, per, and con. Better AI would help tremendously here (as mentioned by View619). If the AI ignored characters who had low might and dex and targeted characters who were more likely to damage the enemies, a pure tank (low damage) build would be much less useful and the damage dealers would need to worry more about defensive stats.

What difficulty are you playing on? What level are you? What is your party composition? How often do you rest? What other party cRPGs have you played, especially those with a rest system? It seems to me that most maps have a camping supply that you can find which essentially gives you a free rest. It sounds like that is not enough to make the rest system work for you. We are on opposite sides on this question: I rarely rest to replenish spells and tend to rest only when a few ppl in my party have major fatigue (when playing with a party). I find more camping supplies than I can use. But I'd like to understand what is different about the way we play that makes the rest system not work well for you. I think that it might be a pain for devs to implement your suggestion about a free rest if you've cleared a map and I think it could also lead to frustration for some players (e.g., you think you've cleared everything but there is an enemy somewhere you didn't see). But I wouldn't mind a mid-level talent that changed a few low level per rest spells into per encounter spells.

I am playing solo PotD (but not with a wizard). If I used a wizard instead, I might equip an extra grimoire that contained spells that were very useful in specific situations but not generally useful. I've done that a couple of times in a party playthrough as well but I generally don't. I like having a class where you have a very wide range of spells that are potentially available but you need to find and learn them. It adds variety for me. I think that needing to find and learn spells is a good trade-off for the larger number of spells a wizard can eventually learn. However, I think it can cause problems bc newbies (even to this game but especially to the genre) won't know which spells to pick at character creation or level up unless they have metaknowledge. I'm torn bc respeccing your main character seems very gamey but I'm not sure how else one can deal with the problem of newbies choosing bad spells, talents, and attributes for their PC. I know that players can make a wizard adventurer and learn their spells but some newbies have trouble getting enough money to do so at lower levels (and they seem to be the ones who routinely trek back to the inn at Gilded Vale to rest for free but then complain about what a PITA it is to do so) and that doesn't address the problem of poor attribute or talent selection. I'd suggest a respec option solely on easy but, unless you are playing PotD, you can freely change difficulty level during the game. On the general topic, I like scrotie's suggestion of not being able to leave some optional dungeons. However, it would cause players like me to rest more often bc I like to go to new areas when my health is in the mid-low range. I think it's a challenge. E.g., in the Eothis temple, I first went solo at level 2 and my health was barely in the red when I first entered. Such a change would cause me to not enter until after I'd rested. I'd still probably end up losing the dungeon bc I'd probably need to recruit Eder at least and possibly level up. I always hard save before entering a dungeon though so I could replay it if I knew beforehand that I would have negative consequences if I left the dungeon to rest. I think that scrotie's suggestion would be a good idea since there seem to be few consequences for resting frequently. It would allow players who need to rest frequently to do so since the areas are optional but make limited resting rewarding. It would also encourage new players to learn to manage their per rest resources and camping supplies. On other boards, I have seen many complaints from ppl who don't understand that the player is supposed to manage their use of per rest spells/abilities and see the resting system as a frustrating punishment from devs who seem to encourage players to backtrack to the inn a lot for some inexplicable reason.

Adding my voice to those asking for hard mode to be more difficult. I don't think it is mostly bc of the bounties bc I just did my first one and haven't turned it in yet. I'm returning to DB after a brief detour for the first five levels of the Endless Paths (when i picked up my first bounties). Most encounters in DB (done before any of the endless paths or any bounties) are too easy and even the hard ones could be more challenging. I don't level up so I"m level 4 now but some companions are at level 5. I guess I should have stayed at level 3 for DB. I don't mind doing that but would like enemies that require more planning and thought. Better AI (ala SCS) would help. I don't know how much time that would take. I also like the suggestion of having certain debuffs/status effects not work on all enemies. Maybe adding in different types of enemies to some of the encounters would help. I don't like the idea of making the critical path harder. I think ppl should be able to play the critical path on a difficulty that is enjoyable for them without doing the side quests. I think they should make the side quests harder. That way, if someone thought they were too hard, they could still complete the game. It seems like you level up too quickly. It's like they didn't adjust the numbers after deciding to add in XP for traps and the bestiary. I'm pretty sure that they did but the XP is very off IMO. Maybe they shouldn't give much XP for side quests. Maybe you could get other rewards for side quests so you don't overlevel so quickly if you do the side quests (loot but can't be that good or else "side" quests bc somewhat mandatory; more story endings, additional quests, deeper lore info, different resolutions in other quests or different speech options that are more than flavor). I'm pretty flexible about how they go about addressing this issue. I just hope that they do. Edit to add: I am playing with the recruitable companions so my party is not min maxed.

I did the trading company quest I can't find Pallengina. She's not in front of the trading company or at the embassy. Did I miss out on being able to recruit her?

It sometimes said "not responding" as you said. It would blink on and off, usually once, one time 2 or 3 times. It didn't usually do that, though, and "not responding" never stayed on, at least during the times that I checked. Thanks for telling me where the crash report will be. I knew it was saved somewhere and couldn't remember where. I wanted to keep it before trying again but couldn't find it.

I'm not sure if this is related but I've had problems transitioning from the Ogre Cave to the wilderness area. I tried several times, using different characters as the selected character. I was in sneak mode a couple of times but not most of the times that I tried exiting the cave. I usually got a black screen on exiting the cave (entering the wilderness). I quit the game (exited out at the main screen), then restarted. Most of the time, I'd get a black screen, with a body outlined in pink. (That body is not highlighted when I hit tab when the scene finally loaded.) The "loading" message appears on the bottom right at first but then it's just a black screen with the pink body highlighted. I waited about 10 minutes in one case to see if the outdoor area would load but it didn't. I usually only waited a few minutes. I was playing in offline mode (on Steam). After reloading the game several times, the outdoor area loaded. I didn't do anything different; I used the same party member that I had in the prior attempt and I didn't move my party either time. (I got tired of replaying the Ogre dialog and just saved by the exit after a few attempts at exiting the cave.) I am playing in windowed mode so maybe that has something to do with it. The body that is outlined in pink when the screen was black isn't lootable (and wasn't lootable before I entered the cave) but, when the scene loaded, I got the "hand" icon when I hovered over that skeleton, which I don't get with the other objects. However, I can't get the small circle icon to appear and clicking with the hand icon does nothing but move the pointer finger of the icon. When the screen was black and the skeleton was outlined in pink, I was unable to loot it; I think that my character didn't move but can't be sure because the screen was black. It seemed like nothing happened when I tried to loot the skeleton when the screen was black (i.e., I didn't see a hand icon or anything else).

1. I disagree on your first point. Maybe I don't understand the argument but I don't understand why a quest needs to be inherently judgmental, at least with respect to the means used to complete the quest. As I said, I think that it's an advantage of quest XP. If you accomplish objective X, you'll be rewarded with Y (could be XP, loot, reputation, other). 2. I'm not sure that I agree on your second point. Perhaps you can provide an example. If you're using the example above (about wanting a job that another person got), I disagree. I think that, of the different ways you suggested of dealing with the problem, some of the solutions would be better from one perspective while other solutions would be better from another. E.g., from the perspective of someone who wants to gain power regardless of the means, the blackmail or murder options might be best. From the perspective of the person who currently had the job that you wanted, none of the above would be the best and you'd just try to get another job (or have your friend hire you on his own without firing the other person). From the perspective of your friend, talking to the employer would probably be the best, especially if you did an excellent job there and he could somehow use that to have closer contacts with your employer. I don't think that any of those are irrational (or that any of them are inherently less rational), although I think some of them are more immoral than others. (I think all of them except allowing the person with the job to keep it are immoral.) 3. I don't think I ever said (or suggested) that the only thing that matters is the objective that the devs come up with. I've said that I think that quest XP can help avoid the problem of devs deciding and enforcing how a player should play the game. 4. I don't care how long something has been around. If that's important to you, I can understand your view on this issue, although I don't understand why you'd argue against kill XP (or support other changes in PoE from the IE games) if that's the primary thing that you care about. I said that I think that having realistic in-game consequences for actions is good and is, IMO, a better way to deal with in-game actions. That deals with the means used as well as the results. We may be misunderstanding each other here. I've tried to clarify my position but maybe we're starting from such different points of view that further discussion is unlikely to be edifying or clarifying for either of us. If you want to continue, I'll do my best to continue as well. I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right. I'm merely disagreeing with what I understand your position to be.

I don't follow this example because, to me, a video game is not real life. Of course, in real life, your friend shouldn't murder the person who got the job or blackmail the HR person (and if your friend could buy the company, why doesn't he just hire you for something, it would make a lot more sense than buying a company just so you could have a job). But in an RPG, it might make a lot of sense for certain characters to blackmail the HR person or murder the person who got the job, especially if they had the skills to do that with little chance of being caught. If that were not the case, playing an "evil" character in most RPGs would never make sense or be fun. (I hope that players who choose an evil path in an RPG would agree that they shouldn't do those things in real life.) I have no problem with the game punishing or rewarding a player for certain decisions. If you get caught murdering someone, you should be thrown in jail, guards should try to attack you, etc. If you're known for blackmailing or double-crossing people, others should be wary of dealing with you so maybe you lose some quests. If you always help those in need, NPCs will generally think more highly of you and trust you more but you'll also get more NPCs wanting you to help them (in ways that may be tedious or cost resources even after taking in-game rewards into account) and some NPCs will view you as a sucker. (I thought that Obsidian was doing this in PoE.) Those in-game consequences are much different than the devs deciding (based on their own opinions and biases) that X is the best way to play a given character or solve a given problem. Let the player decide that, based in part on the in-game consequences of certain in-game actions. But don't reward me for playing a druid in ways that I think go against what a druid would do. To me, that encourages meta gaming and makes the game a lot less fun to play. Either I have to play the game the devs' way (and feel like I'm not able to play the character I wanted to play) or I lose XP and other rewards. It's the devs deciding how a druid should be played, not the player. IMO it constricts gameplay possibilities and should be avoided whenever feasible.

I think this will always be an issue because folks don't want to think that the design team is making moral judgments about what decisions the players make. However, I've never seen an RPG where the weren't judgments about outcomes. I think they have to be careful, but I do think they should reward better results, which means that there will be some judgment about what constitutes a 'better result.' For example, from the lions' perspective, having the townsfolk send out the most corpulent member every few days to provide a feast for the pride would be the best outcome, but that's probably not going to happen. I think an advantage of quest XP is that, if it's well implemented (a big if), there should be less room for moral judgments about what decisions the player makes. If you talk your way or sneak your way through a situation (or come up with creative solutions like giving meat to the lions or having one enemy group attack another group), you'll get the same XP as if you fight your way through a situation. In your example, you get more XP for solving a problem in the way that you think is optimal and playing in character, not the way that I think is optimal or in character. I disagreed with your example because, to me, it would not be balanced. It highly favors the humans and their desires/goals over the native wildlife and their goals/desires. It also encourages human encroachment on areas that were previously undeveloped. I think that the latter is what is most out of character for most druids. Since it's impossible for devs to take players' POV about certain issues into account (like how one should best play a druid to stay in character) or anticipate every way that a player might solve a problem, I think it's better for them to avoid deciding what constitutes the best way to play any particular encounter.

I would hate the option of putting lions in a zoo if I were playing most Druids. It's not neutral or balanced and it fails to protect nature IMO. I think it would be possible to devise creative solutions that would work for most character types but it may take quite a bit of work. It could also be a problem in that what a dev sees as a solution would not work at all for some (many?) players, as in the proposed solution above. (I'm not trying to knock your proposal specifically. I'd guess that anything I came up with would have similar problems. I'm trying to illustrate the difficulty of finding quest paths that work and that don't lead to many players, for whatever reason, not wanting to complete the quest.) I like the idea of Druids being able to communicate with animals. Maybe it could be a talent, either class-specific or one available generally. Sorry that I couldn't figure out how to add this to my comment above.

I haven't played much of the beta. I've only done most of the Dyrwood Ruins because of bugs. My main concern with quest only XP is that there will inevitably be some quests that players, for whatever reason, don't wish to complete. E.g., in the current beta, I played as a Druid. I'd never remove a dragon egg from its nest. There may be other ways to complete the quest that don't involve disturbing the egg but I would have not wanted to follow up on the quest even if my game hadn't bugged out in the Dyrwood Ruins. This, in itself, is not a problem. But I wonder how many such quests there will be for people who want to roleplay a particular role or use a particular playstyle. How will Obsidian accommodate players who don't want to do certain quests (without becoming underleveled) and at the same time allow completionists to do every quest (without becoming overleveled)?

I'm not sure if these are bugs in the spells themselves or unclear spell descriptions. The problem is that the spells' descriptions indicate that they will harm enemies. Neither mentions that the spell can also harm the party. I'd like for the spell to not harm the party or the spell description to indicate that anyone in the area may be harmed. Location: Dyrwood Ruins Druid Spell Sunbeam - in game description: "Calls down a shaft of intense sunlight, Burning and potentially Blinding enemies in the area of effect." I used it on a group that included the Skaen Cultist, the Skaen Temple Guard and my own Small Earth Blight. Only the Small Earth Blight was injured (45 burning damage and blinded for 24 seconds). The combat log said that I'd killed the Small Earth Blight but it didn't disappear and showed four blue dots above it in combat after it was supposedly killed. However, I couldn't determine its stamina because there was no longer a blue circle underneath it. I tried again and missed the Skaen Temple Guard and the Skaen Cultist but I hit BB Priest for 37 burning damage and affected her with Blinded for 24 seconds. It said that X hits BB Priest for 37 burning damage. X affects BB Priest with Blinded for 24 seconds., X hits BB Priest for 37 burn damage. I can't tell for sure if I hit her twice for 37 damage each but it looks like I did based on her stamina before and after my spell. The only other attack on BB Priest in that time period was that the Temple Guard hit her for 3 crushing damage and her stamina went down by over 70. I tried it a third time and hit the Small Earth Blight for 31 Burning damage, Blinded for 12 seconds, and 31 Burning damage. Again, it looks like Small Earth Blight was hit for 62 damage in total. No one else was hit by the spell. Wizard Spell Crackling Bolt - in game description "Caster becomes a living generator for a powerful rebounding bolt of electricity, which leaps to the nearest enemy and jumps to up to five additional targets" BB Wizard casts Crackling Bolt (and targets the Skaen Cultist). He grazes BB Priest for 14 shock damage and affects BB Priest with Crackling Bolt for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard grazes BB Rogue for 12 shock damage and affects BB Rogue with Crackling Bolt for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard grazes BB Fighter for 15 shock damage and affects BB Fighter with Crackling Bolt for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard hits Small Earth Blight for 48 damage and affects Small Earth Blight for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard grazes Skaen Cultist for 17 shock damage and affects Skaen Cultist for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard grazes Skaen Temple Guard for 19 shock damage and affects Skaen Temple Guard with Crackling Bolt for 0.1 seconds. In this case the spell description is ambiguous. I wasn't sure before casting if it could only jump to other enemies or also to allies. However, it indicates that an enemy will be attacked first. When I cast it, the initial damage was to BB Priest, then to BB Rogue, BB Fighter, and Small Earth Blight. Only after going through most of the party, it bounced to Skaen Cultist and Skaen Temple Guard. I tried again, this time targeting Skaen Temple Guard. BB Wizard critically hits BB Priest for 65 shock damage and affects BB Priest with Crackling Bolt for 0.2 seconds. BB Wizard grazes BB Rogue for 21 shock damage and affects BB Rogue with Crackling Bolt for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard misses Skaen Temple Guard. BB Wizard grazes Small Earth Blight for 24 shock damage and affects Small Earth Blight for 0.1 seconds. BB Wizard killed Small Earth Blight. BB Wizard grazes Skaen Cultist for 18 shock damage and affects Skaen Cultist for 0.1 seconds. Again, the first target (before any enemy is missed) is a party member. It hits two party members before missing its supposed target. I think that the spell description should be clearer in any case (to indicate whether it can jump to and harm party members). If it is supposed to be able to target party members first, the spell description should be changed. Otherwise, it should first hit an enemy before targeting any party members.

I'm in the Dyrford Ruins and have the same problem with BB Rogue's Crippling Strike and my Druid's Conjure Lesser Bight. I've had the problem with BB Rogue for a while and resting did not fix it. After the Lesser Earth Blight was killed, I couldn't summon another one because it said "Already activated". This was well after the fight in which the Blight was destroyed. I'm not sure if it's a coincidence but at around the same time my Blight was destroyed, BB Rogue and BB Fighter disappeared from the icons on the lower left (that show my party). I can still select and move them but I usually have to do it separately from the party even if I include them when I put a box around the party. Occasionally, they will move with the party if I do that. If I click on them, I can change weapons and use their abilities (except BB Rogue's Crippling Strike). I can also loot with BB Rogue (but not BB Fighter) and give that loot to one of the three characters who still have party icons on the lower left but if I loot with another character, I can't give the loot to either of them.

I tried to interact with the beetles as a Druid but wasn't able to do anything. I was a bit disappointed since I'd like to be able to "converse" with at least some of the animals. (Maybe it could be a talent that I could choose as a Druid or maybe I first have to cast charm animal, which I did after not being able to communicate with them, but it didn't let me talk to the beetles.) I haven't gotten to the wolves yet. The bug that makes the BBs stuck and the bug where members disappear from your bar on the lower left have made finishing the Dyrwood Ruins difficult so I haven't gotten to the wolves yet. I agree about the spiders. If deer are anything like the deer in this world, presumably the wolves and beetles have attacked many deer and the deer we see is one (of many) who survived. There are a lot more deer than wolves (or beetles if they eat deer). I like your first two suggestions. One thing that has been bothering me a bit as a Druid is the dragon egg quest. I wouldn't steal the egg as a Druid. Is that a problem? I.e., is there a way to complete it without getting the egg? If not, are the quests balanced across classes so that there will be other quests (with similar XP) that presumably a fighter or a monk wouldn't complete?

I'd like Obsidian to tie the beetles, wolves, etc. into the world more and I don't care either way if there is kill XP. I want a world that is interesting and makes sense. I think that the suggestion that you find bones near the wolves and be able to return them to someone in Dyrford Village (or elsewhere) would be good, especially if it's something more than a fetch quest. Maybe you'll learn more about the history of the area or of the villager's family or something. Or if you find pigs by the wolves, it might be an explanation for some of the missing pigs in the village. Things like that make me want to learn more about the world and keep me interested in a game. Obviously, YMMV but don't assume that people don't like the filler combat because they don't get good loot/kill xp or that kill xp would in any way fix the problem for some players.

I had a similar problem last night. I was in the Dyrford Ruins and had just finished a fight. One of the characters was stuck so I saved the game and quit. Everyone in my party (including the Small Earth Blight) had full stamina when I saved. When I reloaded (from the menu screen), my Small Earth Blight was completely missing and BB Rogue and BB Fighter weren't shown in my party. It was the same situation as in your screenshot. I could move them, however.