Sarex

They didn't play their own game, the US set the tempo and our guys followed it. When they played like a team it worked, but sadly we didn't see much of it.

Congratulation on the gold to the USA basketball team, a well deserved win.

Serbia won gold in Water polo, along with every other gold medal for the last 2 years. OSVOJILI SMO SVE!!!!

This kind of thing is pretty common in judo.

For consoles it isn't and that's why they made it.

http://www.pcgamer.com/dawn-of-war-3-hands-on-evaluating-the-emperors-finest-one-unit-at-a-time/

And sorry but you're just plain wrong about Bosniaks. I also said this: That I think that they fully deserved to die is another matter. I still think it's a crime that should be punished.

Most anticipated movie of 2016/2017

Hmm, guess I'm wrong. Although I do not know what authority Jill Geer has on this matter and it's kind of iffy to take a quote from a mail, but ok. I wonder if there is a record of how many independent (non-US) tests have been done to the US athletes over their Olympic history.

I don't care what you posting history is and who's side you are on, what does that have to do with anything... If you really want to boil down what I said down to one sentence, it's that we would have been much better off without the Kingdom of Serb Croat and Slovenes, that the Bosnian people have not historically existed and that it was a mistake to kill the 2000 in Srebrenica considering that it was set up as a trap and that they should have had a trial no matter what those 2000 have done. Also where did I say that someone else's crimes justify our own? edit: I don't know what's got your panties in a bunch, I wrote pretty much the same things in one of the first iterations of Oby's Ukraine threads in my discussion with Trashman. edit2: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/65450-ukraine-redux/page-7<Here it is. I forgot that I started that discussion because of Bruce...

Ok, ok, I was pocking for some fun. But I fully believe that all the major athletes are doping, be they state sponsored or just have good doctors to hide their results. Including our guys too... As for the US I do find it odd that they would forbid any independent testing.

Golf clap Hypocrite - A person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. I don't see it. Especially with you misquoting me and taking things out of context. As for the original topic at hand. You 2 do not see it as laughable that the man who was made out to be the biggest criminal at the turn of the millennia, who was the poster boy for the Wests involvement in the war, was exonerated by hiding the verdict in another mans indictment and the only reason was so that crime could be pinned on that man. Might want to look at a mirror.

But the US athletes are only subject to their own Anti-Doping agency and can not be independently tested, or so I heard. So I would image that helps more then any funding or reward.

Yes that one and as I said Yug would have probably lost, but still had a chance at winning. I think that they would have held the score under 10 point difference. It would have come down to strength vs skill, first half of the game we could have even taken the lead but after that the US would have probably had browned it out. In either case, it would have been a final to remember, instead of it just being the period in time when the best NBA player played together and steamrolled everyone.

Probably, but then again maybe not. Considering that Croatia put up a decent struggle, I think that the full line up would have had a decent chance of taking it.

Had Yugoslavia not fallen apart it would have been truly an interesting game to watch.

The leaders of Croatia and Muslim Bosnia were not put on trial and any person that mattered was either acquitted or not put on trial. History is written by the victors. I know for a fact that the Croatian leaders during WW2 did things far worse than what happened on Hitlers watch, the only issue was that they didn't have the manpower he did or the same efficiency. I mean I treat Israel the same way as colonial Americans, the world did not judge them for exterminating the Indigenous Americans so why would it judge the Israeli. As I said, might is right, whether people like it or not. Yeah, relevant when it supports your argument, but irrelevant when it doesn't. I imagine that most things are that way for you. It doesn't, what's you point? When has morality ever matter in any war? Or 3, you take it from them... We have a historical right to Bosnia too. Whether from the Ottoman Empire or WW1. Vojvodina doesn't have more Hungarians than Serbs, it has a lot of people with dual citizenship, as for Kosovo, well considering that most Serbs were ethnically cleansed from there with the help of the US, yeah there are a lot more Albanians now. I just told you that Bosnia is a recent creation made by the West, what history are you reading? You know that Srebrenica is trying to secede for Republika Srpska? What is your opinion on that? The mere fact that you are saying that it's not relevant shows how distorted your argument is. How is it a historical, coincidence... One supported the Nazi regime, the other fought against it. What is a coincidence there? I mean we won WW2 and Cetniks didn't go on to kill people in droves after it, was that a coincidence too? More like 2000 paramilitary soldiers that killed, tortured, raped, desecrated and burned down Serbian villages around Srebrenica for 4 years before they were caught. What territorial encroachment? Their reason was that they hated Serbs, they had no ulterior motives for doing what they did, nor did they ever make any claims to them. As I said, they weren't civilians, all the civilians were evacuated by Ratko Mladic from Srebrenica. Hmmm, how about the American genocide of the indigenous Americans, they seemed to think it was justified and the rest of the world doesn't seem to have any objections to it. Yeah they also ate children... They though us that in the 3rd grade. According to the west every person killed in the war by Serbs is a civilian, that they had a gun in their hand was irrelevant. Must be those American values where every civilian has a gun, that has people confused. I mean yeah, there were civilian casualties and crimes in the war, but there always are. I haven't heard you complain about the civilian casualties in the NATO bombing in 1999. Not a good comparison at all. In WW1 Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia, Russia supported Serbia, Germany supported Austria-Hungary. We fought Austria-Hungary with our own power and won the first 2 Allied victories in the war (in a fair-fight(we were even massively outnumbered and out gunned)). While in the case of the Bosnian war, first of it was a Civil war, second they attacked us, third they did not fight with their own power, 4th there was not supposed to be a side/allies in that war, NATO was supposed to stop conflicts and the war. I'm glad you admit that the West was an ally of Croatia. Well in this case they didn't have the might and again who cares about mortality in war. When has mortality ever mattered in a war? Nope, all the West needed to do, was promise military support to Tujman and give him a little nudge. Well the west certainly didn't seem to have any issues letting Ratko Mladic take Srebrenica after 4 years of defending it. As for it being justified, well considering what they have done for those 4 years to the Serbian people in the surrounding areas, I can't say I feel sorry for them. What other massacres where there? I doubt I would have supported Ustase, as I do not support the Cetniks either. Yeah we are all brainwashed, only you the high and mighty protector of justice who spouts the same **** as the rest of the people who live under a glass dome and subscribe to Fox news, know the "Truth" and what is right and wrong. Go parrot that BS to Bruce, I think that you and him are on the same wavelength, except I'm pretty sure that he is trolling. Yeah, but as might is right who gives a **** for what you and the other people think, that simply isn't going to happen. Google the meaning of the idiom "Might is right" or "Might makes right", because you seem to not understand it. Instead of "knowing" people, go there and see for yourself. Historically and presently they have not identified themselves as Croatian, this is widely known in the region. If you knew the language you could google it your self. The Dalmatian people are as culturally different from Croatian, as the Croatian are from Serb. Also the Dalmatian people do not dislike the Serb and that irks the Croat to no end. It's funny, because it's pretty easy to see that most of your ideas and facts come from the western media. Your ideologies are sheltered and naive. As for examples, all of you post are like that. You are moving the goalpost, I think this one is obvious as every successive post you make, has more quotes and addresses more and more different points. We started this argument as to why I considered the Hague to be a kangaroo court... You are strawmanning every quote I answer by attacking another point. And the moralistic fallacy that is pretty much in every post you made is painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Good showing in basketball against the US by our guys, gives me hope for the rest of the tournament.

The only comparison I see working there, is if you were comparing the leaders of Croatia, the Bosnian Muslims and Karadzic. They were all trying to kill as many of the other as possible. But hey, only 1 was put on trial. Ok, let me rephrase that, no one I know cares about him, nor is there any public support for him. Yes, they are worse. You are crazy if you think Hitler was worse then Stalin and Mao. The Israelis are trying to cleanse the area of Palestinians, they have weapons of mass destruction while the Palestinians have sticks and rocks. If you read even a little bit of history instead of subscribing to Fox news history you would see why that was the case. Again you are looking at history backwards... But it doesn't matter as you confirmed what I said, as Austria-Hungary was on the losing side, so was Croatia. You are moving goalposts and strawmanning... Firstly look at the history of Kosovo and you will see that Albania has no connection to it, second, then why did we keep it in your opinion then and not today? They were Serbs and Croats who changed religion during the Ottoman occupation. They changed religion so they would be treated as citizens and not be subject to "Danak u Krvi" (taking children while they are young to train them as elite soliders) and "Pravo Prve Bracne noci" (taking brides on their first wedding night) among the other things they have done. As for what Cetniks have done, no one is denying that, but claim it was on the same scale as Ustase is delusional. As for what for what happened in the 1990, aka Srebrenica, I already talked about that, what the Muslims who were executed have done before they were caught, fully earned them death. Still it was a mistake and crime to kill them in cold blood, they should have been tried and executed. I never said they would have been ethically cleansed, but as you said for Vojvodina, so it would have been then. Also they held their own, lol... What war were you reading on? The west rained fire until we moved our troops back. Yeah, they held their own against unarmed civilians. Wait, what. They did vote to join Serbia, do you remember us talking about the Kingdom of Serb, Croat and Slovenes (Yugoslavia)? The only reason we fell apart is because the West pressed pressure points and promised backing for the Bosnian war, they wanted to weaken Yugoslavia as they did not need a third side in Europe. If you look at how the Croatian government is behaving today and who is arming them, you will see why I am so pragmatic. Lol, if that were the case Texas would be an independent state and I'm too lazy to look but there were other cases in the US where people wanted to call for Independence in America... Might is right and if you think anything else you are delusional. I didn't say they would say "I am a Serb." ... They would identify as a Dalmatian people. They pretty much dislike the Croat, if not hate. Were was I confused? I only made a mistake when finding the English versions of names so you could search what I was talking about and I admitted it. Also if you think that what you are talking about are facts, you are delusional. The bigger issue I have, which you ignored is the way you discuss. If you take a look at your post, you are just moving goalposts and attacking strawman, and it can be seen in the rising number of quotes in each of your posts.

Wait what? I don't get what you tried to say here at all... How did you manage to connect Karadzic to Ustase I have no clue... I mean, no one cares about Karadzic in Serbia, nor has there been any open support for him. Croats who wear the insignia of Ustase are celebrating their crimes. I'm a hypocrite for judging Ustase? Are you out of your mind? Do you know what Ustase have done? Why the **** are you defending people who celebrate them... We are talking about the crimes they committed not the ideologies they had, big difference. Yeah I did mix them up, Serbian wiki and English have different titles for some reason (Guess Yugoslavia is the most recognized name). Still that is the country that came to be after WW1 when the borders were drawn. Bosnia never existed as an independent country and Serbia/Raska has a long history that predates the Ottoman occupation. How were we lucky to get Vojvodina from Hungary and keep Kosovo from Albania (What does Albania even have to do with Kosovo), please explain? Again there are no Bosnian people and how were the Serb looking to genocide the Muslim? That's some mighty revisionist history you have there... Wanna bet? You think that after WW1 where Croatia came out as a loser and then WW2 where they again sided with the loosing side, they would have been left alone? Yeah culture doesn't work like that and besides apart from religion there were minimal differences in our culture and language. The modern "Croatian language" is a recent invention, if you go back in time, their language is much closer to Serbian than it is today. The modern Croatian is again just their complex about us going full throttle. As for people of larger countries thinking that we are a non-entity, well, for someone who thinks that we are a non-entity they sure pay a lot of attention to us... You are putting words in my mouth I never said that, I swear you are getting worse than Bruce in this discussion. Muslim and Croatians made us fight them, that is what happens when you attack someone. ...South of Croatia as in southern Croatia as in coastal Croatia, as in Dalmacia and Split. Those 2 have a vastly different culture then central Croatia and somehow they are still not an independent country, huh, go figure. I have to say that this discussion feels like you just read my comment and opened a Wikipedia page to read up on Balkan history. I mean you can't go backwards from today and get why things are how they are in the present. A lot of things happened in Balkans past and no matter who's revision of the history you read, it's easy to figure out who's is blacker. Why would I have a problem with my country winning a gold medal. But I have to say, those doping allegations need to be investigated, we like our sportsman clean. Nations are constructs, not natural things. Ethnicity is mainly a function of culture. New ethnic groups can separate from others, or people can pass from one to another. Religion is one aspect that may be a deciding factor in this process. It is a question of self-identification, not for others to tell them.So while there may have been a time when there was no Bosnian people, there is now. The same with Serbs. Or Norwegians, or whatever. Neither is it necessary that all members of an ethnic group live in the same state. Or a state of their own. I agree, but the problem with what you are saying is that the creation of the Bosnian people was not a natural thing and was very forced.

So you don't know anything about the current situation then... The Croatian government is rehabilitating people who committed heinous crimes, supporting Thompson (a band that sings Ustasa's sons and anti-Serb songs in general) and not punishing people who wear Ustasa's insignias and defiling war memorials. In Germany people go to jail for shouting "Zig hajl" in the street, let alone the stuff that is happening in Croatia. As far as what the Cetnik's and Ustasa's have done, it's not even comparable. The fact that you are comparing them show how little you know. I mean the State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs as wikipedia calls it, which is also wrong and funny as it's real name is the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. See what's missing from that name? That's right, Bosnia. Bosnia is an artificial state made up so that Republic of Srpska (again a funny name from wiki...) would not be able to join Serbia. Why do you think Bosnia and Herzegovina is a federal state today, it sure as hell isn't because it was an independent country before? Before the Bosnian War no one in the world thought that Bosnia was ever a independent state, that's simply revisionist history. Bosnia was at best a province that from time to time changed hands. There are no Bosnian people, there are only Serbs and Croats and Serbs and Croats who changed religion during the Ottoman occupation. I didn't say the Croat people would disappear I said that Croatia would have disappeared. They would have been swallowed by one of it's neighboring countries, probably by all of them. After WW1 they were pretty much a non entity. Had what I have said happened there would not have been nearly as many casualties, the economy of both Serbia and Croatia would have been comparable to the rest of the Euro countries. But the thing is that Croats always had a complex about Serbs, but that happens when you are on the loosing side of 2 World Wars and when you see a country stick to their religion even after 500 years of Ottoman occupation. So what happened in the Bosnian war was what Croats wanted to happen, it would have been even worse for the civilians if the West have not held them back from going completely overboard. As for Hungary, well it could happen, it happened with Kosovo it happened with Crimea, but I doubt it, Russia is not what it was in 1990. Why should I be happy, had we made a kingdom of Serbia we would have held most of the Adriatic coast all of Bosnia and most of the territory north of Bosnia and Monte Negro would still be part of Serbia. I don't think you know who's side Croatia was during WW1. Besides if you go to the Adriatic coast (south of Croatia) and ask the people there: "Who are you?", they will not say "A Croat".

Oh? Take a look at the current political climate in Croatia, also take a look at who 'Ustase' are, then think of the timing when this behavior started (after joining the EU). I think that the only things the Croats regret from their past was the Germans losing WW2. Serbs don't regret the collapse of Yug, they regret it ever being made. After WW1 we were in the unique position to make our own borders, but the idiot of a king we had wanted to make the great Slav kingdom... Had that not happened we would have kept most of what was once Yugoslavia's territory then, Bosnia wouldn't have come in to "creation" and the Croats would more then likely have disappeared. The only thing that Milosevic is guilty of is being indecisive, he should have gone in full force with the Serbian part of the army and gone to Zagreb. By the time the West could have reacted, we would have already taken everything that matters and could have negotiated to return Zagreb and some of today's Croatian territory. But hey, hindsight is 20/20. Now we wait for the next great war to hit the reset button and hope we survive it.

At that point in time Russia didn't have much power to do anything (or the war wouldn't have happened) and China had no reason to involve it self. It's obvious to any sane person that it's a kangaroo court that was put in place to legitimize the West's involvement in the war and the later NATO bombings. The fact that Naser Oric was acquitted and that operation "Storm" is to this day considered anything else but ethnic cleansing, shows it.

Nor does it mean that they were not.

Seems that DOOM got cracked by a guy named voksi.