Morgulon the Wise

You're thinking a little gamey. Common sense and science wouldn't use these terms in the way you do. Maybe this would mean a bit too "realistic" approach, but I think this could make the game understandable. Intelligence isn't simply gained through reading a book. It consists particularly of the memory but is also the ability to gain knowledge. Wisdom is all about the "right" or efficient use of it (which is also a part of the intelligence from a scientific viewpoint ^^). My question is meanwhile: Why should we use these terms of DnD at all? How does the stat system work in P:E yet? They have developed the character classes up to level 5 or so. Why don't they show their stat system?

I think for the orcs you wil remain an ugly, disgusting person. If there still live some...

@Osvir: I really like your react-or-die concept! If possible there should be enough tools to evade the instant death: "I think not" spells might just be possible for mages, but what if you didn't prepare that spell or you have no mage in your group?? Wouldn't it be better to have it as a skill in each class? All non mages also should have possibilities besides dodging and killing/silencing/disturbing the mage to diminish a death effect. Maybe you can use a shield against the death-orb or fire an anti-magic arrow at it? I would be very very happy about something like this. One more thought: The faster you react the less damage/death you should get. Protection spells against death or other very strong effects should either last long (1 min) and provide 25% less damage/health loss (you wouldn't be killed instantly!) or last 5 seconds and provide 75% protection (you lose only 25% of your health). The earlier you shoot an anti magic arrow at the death orb, the less effective it will be if it hits you.

This guy standing around in the first pic... ... makes me very interested in how the motions and poses of the characters will develop. I'm very happy to have seen these images but I hope the animation of the characters is also a part of the vertical slice since I wanted quite eagerly to see something like that.

@ Karkarov: So why is this topic not closed yet? I think at least some mod is interested in this instant death-discussion... and not only the pro/contra It would be a shame if noone would at least think about some instant-death mechanics in P:E and how it could be implemented. Even if the devs did state that there will be nothing like that. Because it is also a game for the players and I want to have a little influence on it. (It is true though that in the last pages Lephys and Stun were a bit ... persistent. At some point I browsed most of it ... What influence do these guys want to have with that?)

I think traps with instant death can be real fun - if you can avoid them/disarm them in an appropriate way. Some games are built upon that. Only thing to mention is, that your capabilities to control your characters in such dangerous situations should be as best as they can.. I remember that the pathfinding in the IE games were much too vague for balancing on a marked line which made some of the traps quite a punishment. Remember the situations when your thief wanted to disarm a trap on the floor and went into the red zone before just before he could begin to disarm it? In this case instant death traps would be very discouraging. Traps without ID effects should be either: calling additional foes/ let them prepare for battle (it would be awesome if some foes aren't prepared all the time), give you a malus directly in a fight which is going on or let you for example fall into another layer of the dungeon.

I never said that you are born with it. As a baby an average adventurer has 0 knowledge. When he is grown into an adult he may have 10. But the wizard in my group has 15 because he read a lot of books. These numbers mean: The baby adventurer has never seen a frog. The adult one knows how they look and how they behave and move. But my wizard knows why bodies move and behave like this and also is quite schooled how they look from the inside ... A knowledge which he could use to let someones innards rot. (If I allow it) When he does this a lot, he might even come to know much more of how bodies work which could lead to an attribute increase to 16! (and this has nothing to do with a level-up!) It also could lead to a perk. I've already stated, that an attribute shouldn't go higher than 2 over their original stats 'cause I'm pro-slight-increase.

I think there will be ways to define what or whom the paladin serves. And yes, he will have the ability to enforce those who fight on his side (as stated) but he should be the wrath itself if he comes to face those who oppose the things or persons he is sworn on. (What i mean is smiting. Really brutally and hard.) And in this he should exeed the other fighter classes. A fighter as a contrst is in my opinion "only" someone who enjoys fighting as well as he loves his weapons and his ability to wield them perfectly. The souls of fighters should merge with his weapons, making these extended parts of his body. A paladin puts his love elsewhere.

"Memory power" would be a much longer word. A mage who has incredible power and some dire idea what to do with it might be a deadly thread. Still I think that a less powerful one who can keep everything in mind what he needs is at least at least evenly fearsome (Somehow Dumbledore comes to my mind). Nowadays nearly nobody has to have such a good knowledge because you can look it up in books or in the internet but in a time like the one of P:E a good memory should come in much more handy. Knowledge in games shows us what for an understanding our character already has from the world he lives in. This is no dead weight. The stuff he experiences while we play (with) him just piles upon that.

maybe "daily stamina" should only be a limiter of how much of your maximum stamina can be regenerated. Maybe your group just cant get up to 100% but 50% after a long day without sleep?

Define the personality? Never thought about it that the stats of your character could resemble the personality? Physical strength doesn't just pop up, (besides the genetics) tit is also grounded in a need or an urge for strength. And backtracking DEX/ INT to personality factors is much easier. But for me it just doesn't feel right to display these factors through STR/ DEX/ CON/ INT/ WIS/ CHA. Or didn't you want the characters to have something like a personality? Are stats which show how good they are in fighting, lockpicking and keeping spells in their mind good enough? The usage of STR/ DEX and CON is also the reason why the x+y isn't perfectly capable of fitting z in my opinion (by the way this is nonetheless the best system to utilize all skills which are given). You have also only knowledge as one form of intelligence. The fluid intelligence/ mental agility just doesnt seem to exist in your system: agility and dexterity are also from my understanding mostly the same (agility just goes a bit more into the direction of speed) How can your muscles help you against mental attacks?: and so on... I think this system needs to be refined. A good approach though not really fitting/ covering (may it be the stats which you use as base or the ideas you had) (Oh its you Karkarov! So the battle of the Systems goes into the next round... Just kidding. Hope I can be constructive.) Knowledge is that stuff you get through reading books and watching TV. You get experience if you were there and took part directly or indirectly.

As long as my characters cant get sucked into something thanks to them I will let them wear cloaks 24/7

@ Scottfree Are you a reincarnation of Yoda or Bruce Lee? ? But I think this is how reincarnation works, yes. I like also the Idea, that noone in the World of P:E knows more than that how and why it works. Not even the druids which might be a much more integrated part of that cycle.

The problems with this STR/ DEX/ INT stats is that they are solely based on fight and action. Yes, P:E has a focus on fighting so they are relevant. But does it have to include these in their roleplay setting as the MAIN SKILLS which define the personality of a character? I want to know how the attributes are labeled in P:E since I think that this "traditional labeling" doesnt fit anymore for the PnP roleplay-reinfluenced type of game P:E (I think) will be.

Pronounciation is a good clue to a culture. To know or hear it means to get some access to how the people who speak it are. So thank you for caring about that Josh.

I do care. Much. It would be really awesome to hear and see the conlangs and its influences. I like Tolkien, the creation of new or similar languages or conlangs so thumbs up from my side. Is there any possibility to adapt the scottish accent? I dunno if Cornish sounds in that direction. Please give us a sound update on this! I want to "taste" it with my ears!

My idea how encounters while resting should be settled: When and how an encounter happens and who it is should depend on: - Who did you battle in your last fight - The type camping site (there should be different types derived from their security) - The environment This should give the player some time if he recently fought a dragon and prevent camping overuse (penalty encounters). Sleep encounters should also count as the last fight.

I think it is a "relic" from the real world. And if a good nap or a plaster can let you get rid of your wounds I'd gladly take the nap. Just waiting for a moment until all my spells and health have refilled won't do it for me. So let us revolve in our trial of "solving". We at least have (mostly) the aim to be constructive. It seems that you can analyze and summarize the problems we had so far (thats good) but please give us some approach for solving that "something" you want to bring in.

I think death spells should be possible as complex rituals in defined plot situations. A death spell is a story for itself I think. It shouldn't be common or standard that someone just drops dead or disintegrates. It should be set in scene (without comments on morale) as the special thing it is. And if there's no resurrection then there just isn't. Its called fate ... or plot. But maybe the plot just doesn't end with the spell cast. I think in this way instant death should be possible. By the way: I didn't like them in BG and IWD because they were too unreliable.

@curryinahurry Thank you for digging this up. Are there any newer statements for no-resurrection or the other topics like the attributes? What is the status quo? I think we all lost kinda sight of it, the actual discussion in this thread proves it. Which are the newest affirmations/disapprovals by the devs?

Might not break the game system, but I don't really want every acrobat to be extraordinarily clever fellows, or every clever fellow to be a backflip hopping adonis. But there's definitely something to be said for your stat system. It might work just fine. Maybe the acrobat just jumps to the right conclusions... As I said every class benefits in its way from the main attributes. Besides that real intelligence includes knowledge. This means that he wont be automatically intelligent if he has good dexterity. Thanks to the "hopping adonis" I detected an error in my system which I'd say is caused by the fact that I am not a native English speaker: flexibility (handling skill) is dexterity, fluid intelligence and charisma -->eloquence In fact I think charisma is a combination of eloquence and self esteem, maybe even a bit more, but I dont think it includes: attractiveness or "adonisity" (I better say this word is made up before someone jumps at it)

I like the Idea that skill gets produced by INT and DEX because it feels natural. But both are from a psycological viewpoint a product of the neurosystem and due to this connection I wanted to label these two attributes in one: Flexibility I hoped these 4 attributes/12 subcategories could represent a character in personality and orientation. You spend a point in the main attribute--> your character gains mostly in his class specific subattribute and less in the non-class-subattributes. Flexibility would incorporate DEX and INT and also give more skills the higher it is. Or do you want INT and DEX seperated? If you do, why?

One of the points the pro faction had so far is that you have to plan around an instant death setting. It can be refreshing to have a setting with some certain other things that happen. For example your weakest party member gets killed or kidnapped if a boss fight lasts too much time. It is only really annoying if instant death mages are standard settings.

I'd be very pleased if a "death-spell-mage" doesn't throw his "sniper-one-shot-death" against my obviosly weak summoned minions. This tactic was the death of all beholders etc. I encountered. They just throw away their potential. An Opponent with an instant death ability should be very nasty in using it. Therefore I expect a quite good AI for them. In every other way the difficulty of the game should be determinated by the needed tactic to defeat that opponent. (Increasing difficulty isn't just pushing up HP) @ Stun, Lephys and Karkarov: I lost sight what you really want. I want instant death for some of the "boss" monsters and characters. I want only up to 10 types of instant death with high risks and consequences for the caster. I want only 1use per type. And I don't want something as an resistance check, because your tactic has to fail until the flash of green light comes. But I want instant death to exist in that game.

The second and third part are reeking of maximization. Body size as a not purchaseable attribute sounds good though.