Lephys

If their 4-months-into-pre-production demo looks, to you, just like the fully-finished version of previous IE games but with a new coat of paint, I'd say that's a pretty good estimate for what the next year can do for it. I'm just not seeing the point in comparing and contrasting what all isn't in the alpha demo of P:E as compared to the fully-completed version of any IE games. Just for example, you already made mention of capes/cloaks as something you're essentially asking "why can't we put these in with good physics/aesthetics?" regarding. Yet, Josh has already said they're working with such things. Alas, the earliest in-game footage from the entire project probably isn't going to showcase things they haven't hammered out yet. So, using it as an reference for all the things you want in the game is going to lead to a very large waste of time, since oodles of the things you're even directly citing are simply not in the footage we've seen yet, but are planned for the game. That's all I'm trying to point out.

I think there's currently at least one wiki page up for it. It gets updated every few weeks, methinks. Pretty much every time we get new info on something from the game (although its updatedness isn't exactly instantaneous).

The whole thing with a Kickstarter is "Here's what we've got... if you think that's enough information for you to want to help us make it, then go for it. If that's too vague for you, then don't give us money until you get more specifics." It's just like buying something. If a car dealer tells you "This car is fast!", and you just say "Great! ^_^" and purchase it, then come back to complain that it only travels at 50mph, then it's really hard to suggest they lied to you. You could've asked them for quantifiable speed ratings of the car, then decided for yourself with more specific info. The only difference is, the car dealer was very likely TRYING to mislead you. If you were mistaken about Obsidian's specific vision for P:E, it was because of insufficient/vague information on your part, and we're back to "you shouldn't have backed it thinking whatever was in your head was just magically going to line up perfectly with their specific plans."

"Obsidian's Project:Eternity introduces the cRPG world's first-ever DIALOGUE GAUNTLET! Fifteen floors chocked full of PUZZLES, POLITICS, AND PERSUASION!!! Complete with all new larynx management mechanics! Bring plenty of water and utilize tactical water sipping to slow the progression of throat dryness/hoarseness. Skillfully switch out party members to allow for vocal recovery!"

Oh, did I skip that? I don't recall skipping it. How's about this... what good is 15-16? What if you still didn't like one of those characters very much? Or, what if you only end up liking 9 of them, and they're all half as deep as they could've been? You mentioned that the Hall of Adventurers makes 0-depth companions. Well, it's not as if the choice to limit them to 9 makes INFINITE-DEPTH companions, so I don't understand your basis for the decision that splitting them in half (essentially) and spreading the depth around would DEFINITELY be a feasible solution. Also, what if you don't like the companions when there are only 9, but you love a couple when there are 15-16? You're satisfied. Great. So all the people who still aren't satisfied can just suck it? How is YOUR plight more important than other people's? Where does this end? What if people want 15 "large" cities instead of 2, and we get 15 small cities, each with like 5 quests? Yayyy, that's so much better! Does that not make sense? They're building a game objectively, and objectively, it's prudent to support the goal of the rest of their game (deep narrative and reactive world, etc.) with the companion designs. They're not just taking polls and designing each individual system according to a collective subjective opinion count. If you don't subjectively like the style of the Infinity Engine games and the spirit behind P:E, then the game isn't for you. It's that simple, really. And I don't mean that in any sort of hostile fashion. The idea behind the Infinity Engine games wasn't "Let's make sure there are 20+ companions!". Just like the idea behind those games wasn't "don't have a dual-health/stamina system," or really any of the other unique facets of P:E. The number of ANYTHING in the game is always going to be finite, and there's always a measurable amount of quality (even though it's not exact) for all of it. If they want to go for quality over quantity, then that's their decision. Just because you value the odds of your not-hating the companions more than you value the general quality of the companions no matter how they're designed doesn't mean it's anyone's job to figure out how to make sure you get appeased. Like you said, that's largely subjective. They could make 100 companions and you might not really like any of them. How do they even know what kind of companions you like? They say "Hey, we're gonna make this game if we get enough monies," and we go "Hey, that sounds like a good idea! I shall give you monies!". That's the only way they have any clue who likes ANYTHING about their game idea and who doesn't. That's why they didn't raise Kickstarter money for "Game # Alpha," THEN ask everyone who donated what kind of game they want Obsidian to make. This isn't about whose subjective opinion is more correct, because we're not deciding whether or not there are even companions in the game, or how much quality should go into them. Obsidian decided that before they even got a dollar from any of us, and we gave them dollars based partially on that.

Isn't*. Sorry... that bugged me that I made such a horrible typo...

Perhaps you missed the part where Stamina is still a separate concern even before Health gets anywhere NEAR zero, as well as the part where I wasn't in any way implying that you or anyone else here didn't comprehend how Stamina worked, and/or that Health somehow didn't matter at all. I addressed both of them. Also, I specifically said "opposite-of-retreat," which is exactly what it says it is, so there's really no need to explain how no one retreats forward. And, for that matter, you could actually retreat forward. If you're traveling forward (progressing toward your ultimate destination/goal) and are ambushed from behind or flanked from the sides, your only means of retreat would be to hurry in the direction you're already headed (especially if you're, say, crossing a field or open space, and the nearest cover you can reach is ahead of you). Retreat is the escape away from danger, not necessarily in any specific direction. Also, I'd just like to emphasize that the more pertinent point of my specific response was to your suggestion that, since Health always eventually ticks down toward zero as you make your way through conflicts between rest spots, you're ALWAYS going to be forced to retrace your steps to the last rest spot to get your health back. Basically, you're implying that it's not even possible you'll simply make it to the next rest spot with any health left. That you'll ALWAYS run out of Health with at least 1 conflict left between your party and the rest spot. While possible, that's far from a guaranteed situation.

I think it would be really cool if there was a way (not always, mind you) to stun/trip/knockdown most things, but it wasn't always the same method. Like, maybe a power attack from a sword has no effect (other than some damage) on some giant beast's head, but a boulder-crush spell could still have a chance to do the trick. Or maybe even some kind of explosive/concussive Rogue grenade. But that grenade, when used on a man-sized adversary, would most-likely knock them down or at least stagger them. Similarly, a trip-based ability wouldn't function on some huge beast, BUT, maybe using a powerful knockback spell on its legs could cause it to lose its footing/balance and actually collapse. And, while we're at it, maybe things like Entangle, while intended for a single target of a certain size, wouldn't be able to be used on a huge creature, entirely, but COULD be used on a single leg/tail, etc. Entagle the hind right leg, and it can't move away from that leg. It can still turn about a bit, and move some to get at people with all it's hugeness and whatnot, but it can't actually move that foot/leg until it break the entanglement. Entangle a large tail, and the creature can no longer tail lash/sweep people and would similarly be partially hindered in movement. It might even become temporarily staggered or fall over if it tries to move too much, since creatures with tails generally rely upon their tail for a degree of balance.

^ The one and only (albeit minor) problem I have with "godscarred" is that it doesn't really flow very well. Well... I guess that and the people who think them to be divine/blessed beings wouldn't really want to refer to their blessing's manifestation as the after-effects of a wound. *le shruggles*. But they could always call them something different.

... Expansiveness? *shrug* For reallies, though... you guys have covered a lot of main ideas already, so I'll just say that I think it'd be very interesting (depending on whether or not the complexity of the world plot throughout the timeframe of P:E supports it) to have an expansion centered around an overlapping plot during roughly the same timeframe. Kind of like... all the stuff that went on that you really didn't get to witness/directly affect as the protagonist of P:E. Plus, you'd get to see your original party traveling about and crossing your path, heh. It'd be even cooler if it read your P:E game-completion file (if you had one) and factored in your P:E choices/actions throughout your playthrough into how it portrayed the P:E party when crossing your path (where they cross your path, who's there, what effect they have on the lore, etc.). Tricky? Yes. I'm not demanding this. It's more of a "'Twould be cool if" thing. And, on that note, I think more important (and more doable, for that matter) is, at the very least, having your actions/choices throughout your playthrough carry over into the expansion, whether it's an overlapping thing or a continuation. That fundamental aspect (although it could've been specifically executed better) of the Mass Effect series is probably the best thing those games did.

^ I'm fairly certain that people developing for the PS4 have access to more than 4 million dollars for an entire game (most of those games involving a LOT less narrative and mechanic complexity). Also, the stuff we've seen recently looks FARRR improved over the IE games, so I truly don't comprehend what you're suggesting they're failing to improve.

Yeah, sorry. I wasn't meaning that as a correction. Just a supplement to your already-good statement. I'm totally with you on the loot thing. I think that's what pisses me off most about loot systems like Diablo/Borderlands (just using them for the TYPE of looting example, and not necessarily saying that these games do this exact thing in a prevalent way): It's not even so much the fact that you just constantly find magical things dropping left and right (which is bad enough), but even more so that the game just blatantly tells you "The more time you spend selling found goods at discount prices to bread merchants, the better items you'll be able to buy with your diligently-saved money... ALWAYS!" Like, in Lord of the Rings, instead of FINDING the One Ring, they could've just been like "Hey, we really need a ring of power forged by Sauron, so that we can throw it into Mt. Doom and destroy him once and for all," and some merchant nearby would just have that. "Oh, hey, I've got one. It's gonna cost you, though, u_u... Tell you what... you bring me the armor and weapons from every orc between here and Mt Doom, and I'll totally give you Sauron's One Ring of Power. I actually have multiple of them, in case you want your whole party to be invisible and awesome, 8D!" That's totally what happened to the Nazgul. They used to be an adventuring party, and Sauron used to be a merchant! O_O

Maybe even just something simple, like "The Altered." *shrug*. I'd think the main focus in their agreed-upon-name, as a group, according to all the people of the world, should be their difference from "regular" people. The nature of that difference is obviously going to vary drastically between the people who think they're more special than everyone else (in a good way) and those who believe they're tainted or just-plain bad news, as well as between those who actually believe their difference has anything to do with the gods and those who doubt this with absolution and believe them to be man-made abominations or genetic freaks. Or, if the majority of people believe they ARE sparked by the influence of the gods (for better or for worse), maybe something like "Tampered" would work. Hmm... too bland, maybe... "Otherborn"? Oooh! "The Aberrant," maybe? One meaning is "differing from the right/correct," while another is simply "differing from the usual," so it could actually be used negatively OR positively. It could be flawed, OR exceptional. 8P You could even have the people who view them negatively mock their "official" title by referring to them as "Abhorrent" instead of "Aberrant."

I wouldn't really say it's restricted to melee attack effects (even though that's what you're focusing on here), but I really like the idea of a Panic effect. Maybe it produces a %chance, every 3 seconds or so (since we're real-time here and not turn-based), to cause the affected character/creature to use an ability at random. The affected target might even buff an opponent, or cast an AOE spell on a melee target when his allies are nearby. You'd want to get people away from a Panicked character, and/or calm them quickly. Also, more directly in relation to melee effects, I'd very much like to see more abilities and attacks, in general, impact location. Maybe a shield bash, for example, could knock someone over, OR they can actually partially "resist" it (save versus the force of the attack or whatever) and simply stagger backwards a step or two. This way, you could even push opponents into other opponents, or off of ledges, or into corners, etc. This especially ties very well into the melee engagement system that's been described. And YES for tripping! 8D

Yeah, I would like to know this as well. As far as I can remember, and just using BGII as an example, there was never a point in the game where I felt like I could rush in and be stupid, especially if playing it on "Core Rules" or higher. There were easy fights of course, but they were never a trend. I felt the game scaled quite well, difficulty-wise. If Obsidian is using BGII as a model for difficulty, I would be perfectly happy. I think the "hp sponge" thing is probably more a reference to the idea that tougher enemies simply do more damage and have more HP, and that you're able to take them on when you're tougher purely because YOU deal more damage (to compensate for their higher HP) and take more punishment (to compensate for their higher damage output). The exact same thing can be accomplished by allowing your capability/effectiveness to fluctuate, relative to the capability/effectiveness of your opponent, as opposed to your respective power ratings. That has nothing to do with some things being more powerful than other things, be it opponent or party member. I also understand that some amount of power increase (especially when we're dealing with things like soul-power) aren't out of the question. The point is that power/defense increase isn't the sole means of representing your characters' improvement over time, or the increase in threat amongst your foes.

Or the-opposite-of-retreat forward to the next rest spot. I don't know why you're so stuck on worst-case scenarios, Gfted1. Yes, you MIGHT need to move backwards to rest again. You MIGHT get down to 2 Health, at which point your Stamina is pointless. Stamina regen doesn't help eliminate the possibility that your health will get down to 2 and the next hit will kill you. What it DOES do is allow your Fighter to not "die" in a given, tough fight (which the rest of your party might be screwed in without the help of your Fighter). How far from the next/previous rest point you are at that point, and how tough all the fights are in between you and the next one (and therefore, the likelihood that you'll lose the rest of your health before then) is dependent upon OODLES of completely different factors. With no stamina regen, the Warrior can't do that. In any given fight, he's more likely to be knocked out, since he has no means of regaining stamina (when he's got 100 health left, but only 5 Stamina). All the health conservation in the world doesn't help you if you don't make it through the current fight alive.

There's no need to overshoot the point. You asked for an example of why, within the lore/world/rules of an RPG world, people would decide to switch the focus of their skillset/role in the world. I provided one. A cRPG is basically taking the place of LARPing/PnP stuff. We developed computers sophisticated enough, and someone said "Hey, I bet we can transpose that experience into an audio/video interaction on this computer!" I expect that, since a cRPG provides you with situations, rather than the player having to just make everything up as he goes (as with LARPing), it could provide you with such a reason for changing your character's focus. That's a pretty reasonable possibility. The unlikelihood of an extremely narrowly-devised example situation (an ultra-accomplished mage deciding to become a melee warrior, instead) does not in any way disprove the idea that there are plenty of reasons for a given character to do so.

I would say that they definitely need to involve a lot of difficulty, and I really can't think of any way in which it'd be fine if that difficulty in no way involved combat... but, I WILL say that the item doesn't necessarily need to fall from something's just-run-through-by-your-sword hands. Also, you just made me think of something mildly unrelated: Nothing that's currently being wielded by someone should EVER be pickpocketable. Could you disarm someone stealthily, then take that weapon? Sure, but that's not abstracted by a pickpocket system. They're never, ever going to not-know that the thing their hand was just gripping is now missing, or that bow that was slung across their torso is no longer there, or that their helmet is gone, etc.

*snap*... I've got it! "Godlings"! 8D!

You already HAVE more companions with less depth. As Ffordesoon said, what if they make 20 companions instead of 9, and you hate all of them? Does that inherently mean they SHOULD'VE made more than that, even? At what point are you simply rolling with Adventurer's-Hall-rolled characters with like 3 added quests and 3 lines of dialogue, a piece? That level of depth would be wasted effort. If you care more about some other specifics of the character than you do about the quality of that character, then you inherently have character depth at the bottom of your list of companion priorities, in which case the Hall of Adventurers offers you the maximum amount of character variance to satisfy your "No, that's not the character I want traveling with me" urges. If you value depth more than other little character details, then you're covered with the adequately-deep 9 characters, upon which much time and effort was spent. It's pretty nonsensical to insist they spread the character quality out over a plethora of characters just to appease people's flippancy about character quality. You either want a character do be deeply intertwined with the entirety of the narrative, or you don't. It's pretty simple. What's being argued is almost like saying "Take out all the differences in weapon/armor mechanics, but then put in like 50 more different weapon and armor models! 8D! That way, all the 'different' pieces of equipment will pretty much just be all the same, but I don't really care about any of that anyway, so long as I get the cool-looking ones I want." Their decision to include deeply developed companions in the game is no different than their decision of what type of game to make in the first place. If they were going to make a racing game, and you don't like racing, you don't start complaining and insisting that they change the type of game to a puzzle game. Quality companions with depth is part of their design standard for THEIR game idea. They're even including the alternative roll-your-own so as not to FORCE you to use their characters, and yet still people feel the need to moan about it. "You should sacrifice, in the design of your game, anything I happen to not care about, u_u!" Wow. Entitlement much? What's funny is, I have yet to see any argument from the companion-depth-advocates insisting that they should do away with the Hall of Adventurers and SHRINK the companion list in order to maximize character depth at the cost of all the options they couldn't care less about. [sarcasm] I hereby propose ONE companion! It'll be the best companion ever! Don't like that companion? Too bad. I will, u_u... Oh, and no Hall of Adventurers. Also, the only class in the game should be Wizard, because I like Wizards. Oh, and Obsidian should mail everyone the t-shirt design I choose, for their physical rewards tiers. Also, optimize the game specifically to my PC's hardware, please, so that it works AWESOMELY on my computer but isn't even compatible with any other GPU/chipset. Thanks! 8D [/sarcasm]

I have to admit, that name makes me think of the same thing every time I say it, haha. That same announcer is in so many things now (or at least the exact same style of announcer), like DOTA/DOTA 2. Anywho, while I don't think it's outright stupid, I don't disagree that there might be a better name, like "The Favored," or "godborn," or "deitite." Hehe. That last one's just silly. 8P... Hmmm... maybe "godkin"? Or something-kin... *ponders*

Yeah... how exactly is your party able to exit the area if they didn't actually get past all the obstacles in that area? "Yes! GO little flying-squirrel familiar! Even if you get spotted, no one will think anything of it! Yes! That's it! Now just exit the area for us, so that we can magically teleport past this entire fortress! 8D!"

*shrug*. It's not that big of a deal. I just don't see how it's THAT much different from models and such. They post a standards document, and people who can meet those standards submit stuff. I'm sure tons of people want to go "I BET I CAN DRAW A MODEL" for things like Wasteland 2, and submit Microsoft Paint drawings, and those immediately get checked as "Oh, wait, this isn't even in the right file format... next!". I'd imagine that the number of entries made with sub-par standards and/or by people who are just submitting stuff willy-nilly wouldn't be any different with modelers (with respect to people who actually have access to the appropriate equipment/software and actually take their time to generate quality work) as it would be with audio-philes. It's not like the world's only got 2 types of people in it: People who know nothing about acoustics and recording, and professional voice actors. But, like I said, it's really just a curiosity. Let's ask Mr. Owl! But don't bring any candy, 'cause he's a ****, and he'll eat it all. u_u

Not to mention, I'd bet that conversations can indirectly alter the factors of a dungeon/hostile area/encounter on down the line, even if there's hardly any direct dialogue involved in the area/encounter itself.

But... Wasteland 2 basically heavily outsourced their object-modeling workload to random modders and such in the community, and that seems to have worked super well for them. I mean... even after the expense of hiring specific peeps and using a specific studio, you STILL have to evaluate each of the takes and pick the good ones, tweak them, etc. It's not like they're so professional, they just walk into the studio, say the line, break the microphone and headphone thingies over their knee, crack open a bottle of wine and start chugging, and say "There, you're welcome" on the way out of the studio, and the devs just load that sound byte straight into the game. Heck, at least some of the "random bandit #7" barks and one-liners could be outsourced, right? No one says the entire voice-acting set needs to be attempted to be gotten from the fan community, or none at all.