ShadowPaladin V1.0

Me either , but you probably gathered that from this thread. I doubt disobeying such an order would get you shot in the American army, it might get you court martialed of course but you would likely get off. Unless they directly ordered her to carry out those actions they are not responsible since they can only be responsible for their own actions. So you kind of contradicted yourself there a bit.

Kind of explains why Bioware got in bed with Microsoft if you think about it :D

Well thats certainly one view. However that wasnt what was under discussion. Rather it was what could possibly be worse than than the "system" Iraq had before. Whether or not there is an obligation to go around doing that is a whole other matter. Normally the UN employ sanctions, but santions like reperations punish the innocent and not the guilty. On the brightside if your a believer in the whole collective crime thing like Azarkon does , then there is no such thing as a civilian casualty or an innocent since none of them stood up to take down Saddam they all share the guilt of his crimes. Not something I can personally comprehend , but kind of handy if you happen to be a bit innacurate with your shooting.

I'm curious about something. Iraqs old "system" is based on institutionalised racism millitaristic sought to wipe out the kurds by dropping WMD's on them tortures people Kills the families of people who disagree with it Wiped out a bunch of Shiites just after the last gulf war So what the heck is George going to replace it with that is worse than that ?

Halo III has been common knowledge for months. As far as popularity goes compared to Halo KOTOR is a spec.

No it's just a load of pictures of WOW characters in various states of undress. The thought of someone meticulously adding the details just made me laugh.

Actually like pretty much everything slavery isnt wholly evil. It depends on what value someone places on freedom and how well you treat your slaves. "What is freedom if your only freedom is to starve". A better place ? Perhaps, it certainly meant more people below the poverty line starving. If you want something a little less emotive, then zoo's are another good example Zoo's that take good care of their animals have animals that live far longer than they would in the wild. A bad zoo is little more than a torture chamber or house of horrors. Again the determining factor here is people. See a pattern yet ? OK so the system that George desires dosnt support Instituational rasicm ? And yet Saddams did , but your not in favour of it. BTW it's very easy to find proof of Iraqs institutional rasicm , it's also the reason they are on the verge of civil war since the minority that once held the power is no longer in power because of a democratic system .Thats why they are so eager to see democracy fail. Your kind of lost though in your theory since you cant demand a system pay reperations anymore than you can demand reperations from a hammer. Any punishment would have to be exacted through the people. Since the system isnt actually an entity at all. Since even you admit that punishing everyone is wrong then your system of collective guilt is doomed to failure. I've already demonstrated it's extreme outcomes which are none to pleasent. Personal responsibility on the other hand dosnt have any of those flaws. It also dosnt have any of the baggage like still blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus or the Germans for Hitler or whatever ridiculous reasoning people use to justify irrational hatred. You also dont appear to be against millitary action when it would suit your own purpose. Since you dont seem to be bothered about George going to war as much as you are about the system which will replace the old one. So like institutional racsim It looks like your militarism is subjective too.

Ever wondered what a World of Warcraft orc looks like naked? No, us neither. But a group of modders have obviously given it a lot of thought, since they've gone to the trouble of developing a WOW patch which renders female characters nude. And not just orcs, either - humans, gnomes, night elves, dwarves, trolls, undead and many more all get the naked treatment. There are plenty of screenshots floating round the Internet, plus a desktop wallpaper which features a delightful 'World of Porncraft' logo, but we won't be linking to them here for the sake of the kiddies. You understand. It's highly unlikely that Blizzard will let the mod get anywhere near the WOW servers - so if you're desperate to see it in action, you'll most likely have to go on a private server and risk all the dodgy business that entails. But, you know, whatever makes you happy There is a link in the comments section. But I didnt post it here for obvious reasons. It made me laugh anyway.

Because we create new tools when a need or a desire arises. A tool has an effect but it's an effect that is determined by the weilder. Which is of course people. Ditto with religion over the history of mankind man has created many religions to help him cope with the fear of the unknown. Religion can likewise be used for good or evil purposes, it is inherently not one or the other despite what it may profress to be. You fail to see that your view is flawed. Take reperations. You cant only punish the guilty with them , you cant only punish those who support the system with them. In the case of slavery system is 300 years + old and the people you would be punishing are not. Therefore they could not have supported the system. You can't reflect on something that you never did. Likewise all of Germany was punished for the first world war. Yet some Germans fought for other countries (ditto in the secones world war) so your punishing them for being your ally and fighting for you wow that sounds fair dosnt it. Since you didnt answer the question about George I'll ask it again since he appears to share your view that changing the system is the right thing to do. So your probably a big fan of George right since his goal is to get rid of all those evil systems.

Judge Hades.

Oh I've just thought of a better one. Familiar with 2000 AD and Judge Dredd ? In an alternate dimension Judge Death, Fear , Fire and Mortice had a revelations. All crimes are commited by the living(hard to argue with that). So they killed everyone. Now thats collective punishment in action. Since everyone was guilty of being alive and the living were commiting crimes they were collectively guilty.

The speeding fine anology dosnt work though in the context of collective guilt. If I speed and I get fined $500 fair enough I did the crime I'll pay the fine. What would happen under collective guilt is all motorists would be fined just because they are motorists. In other words your punishing everyone for the crimes of a few. I couldnt really think about not speeding since I'd never speeded anyway could I ? You live in the UK dont you steve ? You should therefore be very aware of just how much motorists resent being picked on merely as a source of revenue. If I was fined $500 for some other motorist speeding I'd be perturbed to put it mildly.

Which again shows how little you know about the interim between WW1 and WW2. WW1 changed very little of what Germany was. The Kaiser and his cohorts were kicked out of the government. Other than that, very few things changed: the Army and its old-school martial generals were retained; the big companies were retained; the militarism, the anti-Semitism, the political parties, the country's bureaucracy and philosophy - all unchanged. What ended up happening was that Hitler used these existing staples of German society as the basis of his rise to power. Nazi Germany stood on four pillars: Hitler and his cohorts, the political philosophy of Fascism/Nazism, the Army that for the large part supported him due to his promises of expanded military spending and glory, and the big businesses that had little regards for morality in conduct. Without any one of these, history would've been very different. Consequently, two out of those four pillars are currently in operation in America (big businesses & a military with a long martial tradition), which explains why we like to fight wars so much. Fortunately, neither Hitler nor Fascism are currently in vogue in America, or else we'd be in real trouble. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We have been a democracy for a long time now. Have to admit he's got a point though don't you. Democracies can be both ineffective and weak. Well thats the theory except when some outside force pushes the people as a whole to an extreme which is exactly what happened in the run up to WWII. You will see it today as well, when unemployment goes up and immigration goes up the support that fringe parties get goes up. It is a tool you can have a benevolent dictatorship just as you can have an aggressive elected official. Well thats a nice theory but having listened to you go on for the last several pages I dont think you understand Japan or Germany. Yes because that was part of restoring national pride. If the terms following WWI were not so severe there would not have been the backlash that there was. The whole collective guilt and lets punish all of Germany (which you believe is a good idea) is what led to it. Ordinary people who would have been happy being moderate were pushed into the arms of the Nazi's. You fight a lot of wars because you are a super power. You are in fact now the only super power. Which means your in a catch 22. On one hand you have half the world begging for your intervention because someone is picking on them. And the other half (the ones who are doing the picking) resenting you for it. Since your such a big fan of changing systems you must love George Bush and his policy of regime change. The aim of which is to do what you claim will make the world a better place because it will go around changing the systems of various countries.

Oh great I just had a mental image of Darque and slime. Hope your happy Hades.

You know how much George likes to mess around with the finished films.

Love can be as dangerous as religion. When you are blinded by only the need to save the one you love you dont think of what you are doing you think only of the goal. Thats how Anakin was trapped. I dont recall being particularly rational when I was 16 :">

Collective guilt will always do more harm than good thats why I dont believe in it When it lasts beyond the lifetimes of the people involved it becomes even more dangerous.

I don't think so Obi Wan dosnt seem to be interested in any of the films. Would have made an interesting twist too

Havnt got around to picking that up yet. Had a good review over at Eurogamer though. Oh i'm playing some MP Ratchet the Gladiator and I was playing Hammer & Sickle. When are people going to learn that non played "allies" just mean more waiting around I quit at the prison mission.

You said the system is to blame. The system we all live under is a democratic system. What this shows is the system is just that its a tool it's not inherently anything. Because what your saying is based on how you would like things to work , I've pointed out time and time again and given evidence on why how you want things to be and reality are two very different things. Except even within those catogories there was difference. Just because a society is capitalist you cant know what it will do. Oh I think you will find that the system the Germans lived under in 1918 was very different to the one of 1945. Therefore it changed the system it just didnt change it for the better. All it did was piss the Germans off to the extent that they would follow a man who promised them he would restore their pride an dignity. If that wasnt taken away in the first place then much of the platform that Hitler stood on would have been ignored. Which is what I've been trying to get you to comprehend all along.

He obviously thought there was. Throw a bit of a spanner in the works if it turned out Obi Wan was Luke and Leias father wouldnt it. Vader "Luke about that I am your father bit"

Nah, never take pleasure in killing. In the version they wrote for WEG SW He just fell off into the lava but actually landed on a floating rock or something. To all intents and purposes Obi Wan believed him dead. Then again prior to EP III the Jedi purge is something that occurs afterwards.

You know I just felt a twinge of pity for god if he exists

I think that makes a you a heretic.

Since Anakin went crispy the heat if Obi Wan had approached would probably have set him on fire too. Could have force pushed him into the lava though, that would have been my solution.