PrimeJunta

It's not turn-based under the hood (unlike IE). Timing is based on animation frames. Actions take different times and can overlap freely. There's no way to make it turn-based without a massive overhaul. (For the record, I prefer turn-based too.) Good auto-pause settings would be nice though. Also needs auto-attack and perhaps some basic party AI (not where they run around manically and get into trouble immediately though, like in some games I could mention), like Sensuki's been pointing out.

For me, the most important reasons are political. I disapprove of DRM for reasons of principle (although not so much I'll refuse to use DRM'ed software if no other alternative is available). Therefore I'd rather support solutions which don't have it. Given a choice, I'll also always support the little guy where possible. Steam is nearing market domination on digital distribution for the PC, so if it's available somewhere else, I'll pick that. Monopolies are bad, m'kay? Secondary benefits are technical. DRM always adds complexity to the product. It's yet another thing which can and does go wrong. Steam games start up more slowly, the Mac Steam client is a bit wobbly e.g. I often have to restart it between restarts of a game or wait for it to auto-update before I can start playing, or re-authenticate after using it first on one computer, then on another, and so on. Minor inconveniences to be sure, but they still detract from the experience.

Watched today's stream. Take that, beetles! Did Josh coach him a bit or something? I do hope they'll improve the pathfinding; it was obviously wonky. Also it'll be interesting to see how exactly you're supposed to play a rogue for maximum damage -- I get the feeling that it's all about status effects, so there's a lot of potential for synergies between classes there. Could a rogue take down an ogre if the rest of the party focused on slapping suitable status effects on it?

Adam did not play very well. He fireballed friends, let some of the beetles through the lines to nibble at his glass cannons, had his most powerful damager (the rogue) stand around doing nothing, and backed into a situation where he got swarmed by two groups from two directions. Scouting ahead with the rogue would've helped but it would've slowed things down.

Not sure about dimensions, but I'm assured there will be planes. Like Concordia. Also Boeingia, Airbusia, and Tupolevia.

I look forward to being totally owned in the beta. I think I can maybe do a little better than Adam even on a first try, but if I don't get party wiped a few times before getting the hang of it I'll be disappointed.

/me raises hand If I had a reasonable shot at reaching a safe spot, I'd certainly give it a shot. Keep moving, send a sneaky scout ahead and try to avoid combat until I can get properly rested up. Strategy mang.

Watching the stream again. Seeing Adam get pwned again was even funnier. At least now he and Chris have something to talk about. "Wolves, man. Just like beetles, but hairy." :drink:

I have long held that the IE games too were great despite D&D, not because of it. Except... the way D&D did contribute to their greatness is indirectly. The people who made it were so enthusiastic about D&D and Forgotten Realms that a lot of that enthusiasm shone through. I'm sure they wouldn't have been anywhere near as good with a mechanically better system nobody cares about. Thing is, you can have both. It's incredibly obvious by now that Obsidian are enthusiastic as mad about P:E, and P:E has what appears to be a much better system mechanically than D&D ever was. If you really want to make me swoon, Obsidian, announce a game set in the world of Malazan but with the P:E ruleset. That would be holywowYES! (Edit: also LOLwut? at the actual announcement.)

Paging @TrueNeutral -- we need an Official Boobs Thread

Quantity does not trump quality. McDonald's is the biggest purveyor of hamburgers in the world, but they still taste like something out of a compost pail. ... Okay, that wasn't fair. There are plenty of interesting settings in the Pathfinder world. It's not garbage. The problem is that they've thrown everything from steampunk to Pharaonic Egypt into the same damn setting, which makes the whole incoherent. Again, this is not a problem for PnP gaming because every campaign creates its own world; if you don't like the incoherence, just pick the parts you like and assemble your world from that. I've done exactly that when running Al-Qadim or Oriental Adventures D&D campaigns, and it's worked great. It is a problem, however, for a licensed computer game, because they can't just ignore all the incoherent bits as they have to stick to canon. They're still there and they restrict their freedom to define things. The problem with Pathfinder (and D&D in general) is that it isn't really a system. It's more a collection of vaguely related special cases flying in loose formation. There's no overall coherence to it, which results in things being defined at a very specific level, which leads to things like classes being straitjackets, which leads to things like reams of prestige classes created specifically so you can break out of the straitjacket. Suppose you want to play a character concept that goes against the grain of the defined classes. Say, a fool blessed by an evil god who uses him to further his nefarious goals. That would be a low-WIS cleric. Sorry, you're SOL. Can't cast divine spells without high WIS. The only way out of that is to define a new class or prestige class which ties spellcasting to some other ability, or detaches it from abilities altogether.* Thing is, the rules for defining classes or prestige classes are extremely sketchy, and drafting one is a lot of work which will involve playtesting to see that it's viable without being overpowered. Not something you'd do just like that. This situation happens because the ruleset is incoherent. All the rules are about specifics, not general principles. It only works -- sort of -- because of the sheer variety of classes, feats, prestige classes, and what have you; trawl through them and you're bound to find something that you like or at least can live with. But mechanically D&D3/Pathfinder sucks donkey balls. It's clunky, incoherent, mechanically over-heavy with unnecessary arithmetic, and unnecessarily constraining while at the same time crazily unbalanced. From what I've checked out, D&D5 appears to be a genuine improvement; there's actually some effort to create coherent mechanics underpinning very D&D-ish gameplay. *Yes, my example was far-fetched. This situation has gone on for so long that with all the supplements that have come out by now, you're likely to find a carefully crafted straitjacket that will fit the concept you want to play, more or less.

Very much this. Fantasy doesn't mean "anything goes because magic." Good fantasy creates rules for its worlds, sticks to those, and explores what the consequences of those rules would be. Just like P:E is doing with souls. I'm sure it ain't gonna be perfect; it'd take a superhuman effort to plug every plot hole and get rid of every inconsistency, but they've already shown that they're making a serious effort not to screw up in obvious ways. Which is one of the main reasons I'm so hyped about this, in addition to pushing all my nostalgia buttons and then some.

It was pitched as the spiritual successor to the IE games, with "the IE feel" the top design goal. So to answer your question, yes, this is very much The Nostalgia Game.

It would also detract from satisfaction for the nostalgic among us. That would give me a sad.

Oh good. The boobplate discussion again. I'll be over in the romance thread. Arguing about romance.

@WotanAnubis did you play the IE games? They were brutal before you had the system figured out.

I disagree about the armor and cloth: I especially like the restrained and relatively realistic look they've gone for. I'm sure there will be higher-level gear that's a bit blingier, but I am SO happy there are no spiky pauldrons or oversized greaves here TYVM. As to the animations, that's obviously due to budget. This isn't a cinematic game, and was never pitched as one. They get the job done just fine.

Maybe Josh can slip Adam a can of Raid. Would get a bit further...

Nostalgia's a part of it I'm sure, but even so... I can't get over just how lush and lovely the game looks. They've struck just the right balance between restraint and effects; that firebally thing really stood out there for example, and also lit up the landscape beautifully. Hype level is now over 9000. I think they hit this one out of the park. (If this was Easy, though... poor Gfted1.)

@IndiraLightfoot Yeah. This just looks dopey. Bad case of FX inflation too; if everything looks like Paris sky on Bastille day, then nothing makes an impression anymore.

I'd expect it does.

This. Is. Looking. FABULOUS! Also nice touch with the wandering deer. But Y U NO PICK LOCK? (Also LOL@Adam.) :drool:

Underwhelmed at the idea. As a game system Pathfinder sucks and as a setting it's a "kitchen sink" thing that doesn't make any kind of internal sense. That's two strikes against it. In PnP Pathfinder makes more sense because it's compatible with the vast range of DnD stuff, which individual DM's can use to build a world of their choosing. Obsidian can't do this because, I assume, they have to avoid violating canon. That's not a showstopper but it is a significant problem, and one serious enough that they brought it up when pitching P:E. Of course the "kitchen sink" thing means they can find an area in the setting to put in whatever they want, but they could just as well develop their own setting and avoid the constraints and problems of a licensed IP, and they're going to have to redo the systems anyway due to d20 licensing restrictions, so it's not like Pathfinder will stop them from making a good game. But if this turns out cool, it's going to be despite it being Pathfinder rather than because of it. If it's a Kickstarter I'll back, but I would have backed an original IP triple.

There is more to it than romance, y'know. Like kicking. And punching. (Let us know if you manage to get the threesome though.)

No, and no. You can also buy a beta key separately for $25.