TrashMan
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That level of simulation is a bit too much. Things like damage and change per level is a matter of balancing. No system is perfect on creation - and rarely even efter multiple iterations. That is what things like Alpha and Beta stages of the game are for. To tweak numbers. I can give you some rough numbers off the top of my head (based on the test systems and mods I made before). But those would hardly be ideal and prone to change. In fact, I recall I already did give some numbers regarding HP and level scaling. No. It's funny that you imply that I don't know anything about *I* system I created. There would be reloading - as there would be in any difficult game - but not as much as you think. While it would be easy for a character to get injured, death itself would be rare. Again, what is illogical about the idea that well-prepared team of humans can kill a creature that is large and dangerous? WTF is it with you are your obsession with encounter victory chance? I don't get it. Chance is meaningless in a game due to save/load. Unless you play on IronMan that is. You are asking for the out-of-character game mechanics to be real. That isn't really posible...or advised. There are some liberties a game MUST take in order to be playable... and even that is debatable. -
1. You are taking the D&D comparison to literally when you are using the spells and damage numbers directly. Similar in feel does not mean equal in mechanics (numbers) 2. I am talking about a mechanical system I would prefer. So how game X did it is not relevant. characters starting off as euqal of lvl 1 in D&D and endign lvl12 is not what I'm talking about. 3. I am not talking about my mod - the mod was an earlier implementation of the mechanics and is more of a hybrid. 4. You keep assuming again. Every single number you use is your assumption. I wonder if I'm even necessar in this discussion at all. aparently you know my system better than I do.
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You got it. Increasing HP is part of mechanics, not world lore. Games are subject to mechanics/balance and gameplay. If you are to read novels set in D&D, powerfull peopel in them are "harder to kill" because they are more skilled and generally harder to get a hit on in the first place - they are not literally harder to kill in a toughness sense. Not because they can take 20 swords to the gut and keep fighting.
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With the flatening of the power curve and HP inflation, balancing encoutners is easy. Because its' far harder to make any encouter too hard or too easy when the pwoer disparity is never too big. So how does that NOT make balancing easier? Again, your view of what power is and how it must be represented is not a universal law. Your idea of power is constantly increasing bigger numbers. No you can't. I can make up any numbers I want too. You are again trapped in the "power = bigger numbers" way of thinking. You try to keep applying the standard MMO mechanics and balancing to a non-standard mechanical model. Of course it won't make sense to you. So why do you insist of using it? As opposed to D&D? I seem to recall things like power word kill, disintegrate, death spell, dragons breath, etc.... So is it 40 or 100? How does a higher level character end up with less hP than a low-level one? How about you make up your mind instead of putting in whatever number you think proves your point? What makes you think a sword hit would do 8 damage? What makes you think a high-level character would have. You have constructed some fixed system in your head and you keep using it as a holy grail of balance and game design. So no..your example is completely flawed. For one, if 1 CON point = 10 HP, an average starting character would have between 100-150HP (with end game characters having up to 200...that is all assuming attribute ranges like in D&D of course) So no..I don't see any "tedium" here other then the one you want. I really don't look forward to having 4-8 HP at game start and fighting only rats, because everything else kills me in 1 hit (as it was in most IE games), so early combat was all luck (or fighting utterly pathetic enemeis that could only do 1 HP of damage) Buddy, that is all that you have been doing. Making wild assumptions.
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Yes it is. No it isn't. HP increase is not only bad mechanics, it's also bad lore. "But it's magic" as an axcuse for everything always has and always will be bad. Other way around. My proposal would make combat EASIER to balance. You haven't proved it would suffer from any of the problems you mentioned - and you can't prove it b.t.w.
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The Vice President of the United States is officially retarded.
TrashMan replied to ravenshrike's topic in Way Off-Topic
Guns are all abut destruction. They are made to kill. That is their purpose. Cars are made for transport, not killing. I like guns, but I'm well aware exactly what they are and what their purpose is. If you want defense, amor, tasers, pepper spray, alarms and such are there for that reason. Guns being for defense...yeah, I guess you can use them for that, but it's more of an excuse. I can use a nuke for defense too. No one would be crazy enough to touch me it was known I had anuke. Perfect defense! I would love to own this: but I can't. And I don't mind. -
I'm frankly of the opinion that you can do whatever you want on private property, and let poeple in or out based on WHATEVER reasoning you want. EVERY reason. That's not to say that not letting someone come in because he's black/gay/jewsih/tall/blonde/has a long nose or whatever would be a nice thing - it's just that I don t'see any reason why governments or anyone else would have to get involved. There are no laws agaisnt being a d***....thankfully?
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There's different kinds of low - low power and low frequency. I prefer low frequency (magic is rare) and up to moderate power....in general. Exceptions prove the rule. The above examples are there just for ideas/inspiration and not for direct copy/pasting into PE - naturally some are as overpowered as hell (even in their own setting).
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If you want to strangle dragons with your bare hands - no. Otherwise, it can.
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And of course, my favorite character (and a friggin cool attack): Let the mind-raping commence:
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Let me give you some examples of the attacks from the video. Granted, some I just find visually impressive. Excalibur Cuts trough everything. EVERYTHING. Even lesser gods and their armor. Lightining Plasma Millions of bolts per second from random directions. Compeltely and utterly unavoidable. Tenbu Horin Removes 5 senses (touch, smell, hearing, taste, sight) from the opponent, one by one. Scarlet needle Attack that concetrates it's power in a tiny, needle-like sting. Because of it's focus, it pierces trough armor with ease. Each strike is aimed at a specific point on the targets body, mimicking the locations of stars in the constellation of Scorpio. Each hit produces intense pain and weakens the opponent. Several hits are enough to kill most opponents. If the opponent has recieved the 14 punctures and is still alive, the final blow - Antares (the guiding star of the constellation) is delivered. It works in conjuction with the other 14 and death is guaranteed, as no amount of willpower or toughness can stop it. Another Dimension/Golden Triangle what the name implies. Sucks the victim into another dimension Freezing Coffin Traps the opponent into an unbreakable coffin of ice Diamond Dust/Aurora Execution A frost attacks that flash-freezes and destroys armor (and usually the guy in it). The Aurora is the more powerfull version, reaching absolute zero. Crystal Wall A wall of telekinetic energy that reflects attacks back. There's of course, a lot more from many other series. Off the top of my head, a guy who can make his blood explode. so he cuts himself and sprinkels some on you. And you go boom. Localized gravity control? Make someone go flying up in the air! Etc...
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Indeed. the devs should get creative with magic and special powers of legendary items. Maybe they should look from some inspiration from anime. Characters there often have very varried powers and effects. For example: These videos do a poor job of showing off what I mean, as it's the effects(and their mechanics) that are interesting. I would probably have to copy/paste those from the wiki to get th idea across... And this would probably fall under "magic" thread more.
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And 20 pesants attacking you all at once and you not being able ot parry all? How is that unfair? You only got two hands and two eyes. Your sword/shield can't cover every part of your body from every angle at the same time. The difference between every peasant having a 1 in 20 chance of ignoring parries and being attacked by 20 peasants all at once is vast and in between there lie broken games. Just try mount&blade and you'll see what I mean =p I know what you are aiming at (implying that you can avoid all damage from that one pesant in M&B, but here fighting agaisnt 1 and he'll still have 1/20 chance to hit you) - but I don't really see it as a problem. Luck is always a factor in combat, and the idea that you can always parry just because the enemy is "lower level" is kinda silly. No one is that perfect.
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I never played a party based cRPG where mages in heavy plate behind heavy buffs hacked things away with broadswords and it was fun and balanced. That's not my problem, now is it? You're making a mistake assuming that "balance and mechanics", these little numbers under the hood, work in some sort of completely separate dimension from other design, like classes and what items they can wear. Balancing encompases everything.
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That's a balance/mechanics problem, not one inherrent to mages wearing armor. If mages have to sacrifice attribute and skill points to wear armor (that probably still isnt' as effective as armor on a fighter) then it should balance itself out.
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I'm not crazy enough to go fully-realistic HP (die from 1-2 hits) in a game with multiple characters. Such systems can work in a game where you only have 1 character to worry about or where you have direct control (for example, ARMA or Operation Flashpoint - a single bullet can kill you). But in games where the players attention has to be divided between several character, you generally want to give the player a safety net and enough time to spot a problem and react to it. Extra HP is that net. So instead of a character dying to one good sword strike, he might take 5. Of course, one shouldn't go too over hte top with this too, otherwise the characters start feeling like HP sponges. Once I get back home on friday I'll check to see if I still have the old mod, but frankly I doubt it.
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How my mod played was simple: A high dex, light armor fighter would rarely get hit, but it would hurt. A full plate warrior (armor did give a small dex penalty an speed reduction) would be hit more often, but for minimal damage. In the above scenario, those pesants would be giving you 1-2 damage. So they could technicly still kill you in numbers, using the "death of a thousand cuts" approach. And 20 pesants attacking you all at once and you not being able ot parry all? How is that unfair? You only got two hands and two eyes. Your sword/shield can't cover every part of your body from every angle at the same time.
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Well, balance is definately key, but you forgot to consider oen other thing - enchanting and upgrading a base weapon is busywork. IT takes time, effort of $$$. Magic items you find along they way? Not as much. Which is why magical/late-game items have one advantage - they come ready and require no $$$ expense on your part to be great. Hmm... Should even late-game items be upgreadable? If you can further upgrade the Sword of Badassery +5, that kinda makes it pointless. Maybe max up to 3 enchantments per weapon - 4 or 5 for legendary items. and since magic items already have enchantments on them, you are more limited with them. So your masterwork steel sword can have 3 magical effects placed on it (plus other various, non-magical tweaks). The Sword of fire can have 2 magical effects Sword of fire +2 has room for 1 magical effect more. Legendary items would already be maxed out?
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If I may ask, what things have you modified in the mod? How high was the base HP? And is the mod available somewhere? Off the top of my head: - removed wepon/item restrictions to anyone can equip anything (but they might suck at using it) - removed AC bonus from normal armors and added damage reduction and/or damage resistance - set HP for everyone to depend on CON score only (IIRC, base HP was in mid range, so early characters had almsot as much HP as high lvl ones...around 100 I belive) - more stuff. * I have to see if I still have it on my backup HDD, because it's been years since I made it and I made it for myself, so I never uploaded it (and both my old HDD and my on-line storage died the same day...lost months worth of files, managed to save some) It was interesting to play with it - similar, yet different experience and in some ways harder. A light DEX fighter and a full plate warrior really played differently. I later made another mod, which should be availabe (google Holy Avenger Kit/mod) - Added a Holy Avenger kit for paladins (offfensive-paladin. Has some more penalties in fighting normal opponents. Can produce holy blade, cast holy smite and as a final power can cast Heavens Fury, which adds 1d5 of each damage type to his attack for 3 rounds) -tweaked paladins of the Order and elves of Sundelessnar equipment (now elves don't fight with normal blades and armors anymore). - added more items (sold in Sundalessanar) - more stuff I can't recall.
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But of course.. I never said otherwise.
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1. There are no penalites. Only a small familiarity bonus. Why? Because all swords are not the same - no even all swords of a specific type. 2. Familiarity bonus by itself does little. The other enhancements and enchantments is what can make an early weapon compete with end-game ones. And maybe PE doesn't have materials strogner than steel. Or maybe the sword is made from uberanium, but otherwise unenchanted. Maybe uberanium cannot be enchanted? Maybe superior mateials have lower enchantability?
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Because reality is always the starting point. Unless specificly stated that X works differently, you look to the real world. And becaue I usually don't like fantasy that is too fantastical. And by hte same token, the problem is not with the mechanics I proposed, but with you. And suspension of disbelief is dictated by believability. So you do have to have it. Of course, SOME people can completely shut down disbelief and can immerse themselves in everything, but that's certanly not the majority. If that is what everyone is doing, then you got no more leg to stand on than me. I got as much right to push for my vision of a perfect game/mechanics as you have, and so far you havn't supplied a single argument as to why the mechanic can't work other than you don't like it. Look... I'm tired to debating with you, because it's going nowhere. You and I have different ideas what makes the core of an IE game (or should I say, the soul/spirit of it). You seem to think that spiritual sucessor of an IE game MUST be mechanicly the same in every way (even tough the devs already made some big changes..like the magic system..that's a bigger change than what I propose). I don't. To me, the spirit of the IE games doesn't lie soley in the mechanics...there's always room for improvement and I want it. So let's just agree to completely and utterly disagree.
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Well, I for one was never a fan of the looting focus/mentality to begin with. Loot as a player motivation seems chaep and wrong to me in a RPG. And I don't see how weapon familiarity counters more powerfull loot, because you will find more powerfull loot. Eh? Who said that? Since when does a small bonus mean you can defeat any foe? I propposed the idea because: - it makes sense to me - it increases the worth and lifetime of not-so-uber weapons By itself, weapon familiarity won't magicly turn your weapon of choice into the next Excalibur. You could have a magical wepon who's special property is that it tunes really fast to anyone? Given that people pay top dolalr for trash from houses of celebrities, I can see that happening. But there is a cavetat - people have to know about it. You and your sword have to become famous. If you saved a village, I'm sure the people there would be more than willing to offer a high price for your sword. But if you went to the town where no one heard of you....
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I agree with pretty much the entire post of yours...except for that. Why? Why should a weapon made from an already better material (in durability, sharpness, etc..) be ALSO more enchantable? Aren't you just making a batter weapon even better, thus further inflating the difference? What is the reasoning behind it? Frankly, I'd have all weapons have the same number of improvement slots...or maybe even the opposite of your idea - the more simpler and mundane materials can get MORE enchantments.
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Seen it, wanted to play it, but never got around to it. It's on my "to-do" list and I really should get it ne of these days.
