LordCrash

So, streamers on twitch are apparently allowed to stream the game now. Can we have our keys now as well?

My god, press gets the game early! What a revolution in marketing, heretofore unprecedented in the annals of gaming.... Ahem, kickstarter was indeed a revolution in gaming. But game companies still act like they had a traditional publisher. And there is nothing wrong with handing review copies out early. I just don't see why backers aren't allowed to play the game before the public once the gold master is done. By the way, review embargos are so yesterday. Nobody gives a damn if you read a review today or next week. And if if there is a review embargo there is something like NDAs for normal players as well. That's how every traditional closed beta is handled...

That's the question I aks myself all the time. Gold master is done. Youtubers already got copies, already playing. Journalists already got copies, already playing. Backers still have to wait. I don't understand that.

LOL, apparently even youtubers were given the game already so they could play the game in advance and record let's play that go live tomorrow. Obsidian continues to kick their backers in the butt...

Hm, pretty uninteresting questions and screenshots imo. Just for the lulz I guess...

Why would you want to play such a game with a group if you could just play a "real" Pnp campaign instead? I don't really understand. Video games of that kind were originally made for people who lacked the friends to play real PnP campaigns or who just wanted to play something of this kind alone.

I'm not misunderstanding anything. Vendors from overseas? So what has been imported from overseas into the USA that's required to be part of the physical goods? Probably every damned thing that was printed? Cloth maps, t-shirts, mouse pads, playing cards and Kickstarter backer cloth patches, probably at least as I would guess that you get such items from China and Vietnam in much cheaper price than what you can get them from USA. Also printed books are high on possibility list, but they would not come directly to Obsidian as they are produced and sold by different companies (Dark Horse Comics and Prima Games), and people have already have been able to get their hands on Dark Horse Comics' guide and backer's don't get hardcover version of Prima's guide as backer reward. Also DVD/Blu-ray of Making of Document is possibility. All very possible. But if you don't even GET your stuff you know even sooner that you can't stick to your shipping dates. So why the lack of proper communication? That's the core question here.

Should be finished as PoE has apparently gone gold today: https://www.paradoxplaza.com/news/Pillars-of-Eternity-Has-Gone-Gold/

There is no misunderstanding since Obsidian never clearly said anything about that. That's what this is all about. Lack of proper communication.

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner. Wait what? How? What is "an appropriate manner"? The ports were closed. 1) Share your information with your backers as early and transparent as possible. The west coast ports were closed since December 2014 apparently. 2) Don't withhold such information before you make public polls that could diminish the value of the rewards of your backers. 3) Try to find other ways to get stuff to your backers even if it's more costly. **** happens all the time but I don't see why only the (European) backers should bear all the negative results. 4) Think of something that could at least be seen as a sign of good will and a true apology.

You should be able to choose whether you want a Steam key or a GOG key at release.

1) That's indeed unfortunate but it's also something you have to react to in an appropriate manner. 2) That's not an excuse at all. 3) That's very unlikely. 4) Pointless imo. See point 5. 5) Airmail for a package with less than 10kg isn't THAT expensive. I've bought a lot of (small, lightweight) stuff in the US and always got it in less than 7 days for less than 20 bucks... Anyway, it's not just about the fact that the stuff will arrive late. **** happens indeed. It's about how that was communicated, before and after the poll. It's about how one deals with **** that happens. No official update that explains the delay and no official apology other than a one-liner post on the forum here so far. Not even speaking about some actual effort to indemnify for the delay (no matter if they are to blame or the port workers, that's just a matter of respect imho). And I'm furious because some people here apparently think that this was just ok and to be expected and that there was no need for Obsidian to apologize and to make up for it after all because "other kickstarters failed on shippoing rewards on time as well" or because "backers just don't have to expect rewards to arrive on time anyway". So it seems that as a backer we should be just thankful to get our rewards anytime at all, being already completely at producer's mercy. I do get that this is not directly a matter of laws but it's a matter of trust, respect, reputation and moral obligation for me. As I've said before, it's hard to build up a reputation but super easy to lose it.

You don't have to agree with anything.But the point is: It's just NOT your business at all. Why do you think you're qualified to tell me how I should feel and behave? Do you know me? Do you officially speak for Obsidian? I don't think so. So please, care about your own stuff and stop belitteling the issues of other people for no apparent reason. Besides that posting on a forum is not "extreme" at all. That's the LEAST someone could do to voice his opinion and feelings. I don't see how simple written words on the internet are in any way extreme in an issue that involved real world problems and a lot of money. Anyway, I don't need your approval for anything.

Any reasonable person should have predicted shipping difficulties and been prepared to wait for months after the shipping date, based on prior Kickstarter results. Sorry, but that's ridiculous. First, because at the time of the kickstarter of Pillars not even ONE big kickstarter game project was released/shipped so it was impossible to "predict" any shipping difficulties as a " general kickstarter rule" while pledging and second, because such a rule just doesn't exist and even if previous kickstarter project were sloppy here that isn't a free ticket for every other company to behave in exactly the same way. So no, any reasonable person should have expected that companies stick to their promises (and getting your stuff on time IS part of the promise), ESPECIALLY because people just gave them money upfront without a product being even in existance at the time of paying. You're absolutely right, it's not a preorder, it's even MORE than that. It's a matter of mutual trust and respect, not just a usual purchase process . Giving people their rewards weeks or even months after release is just not ok, no matter how you look at it. I gave them my money on time, you know. It's even worse if you don't clearly and transparently communicate such issues. I really don't understand how you can defend Obsidian here, sorry. It makes no sense at all to me. Or maybe you're just lacking the empathy for other people who wanted to enjoy their game WITH their physical stuff right there or who wanted to actually collect their (signed) CE. You know, besides just making this game possible people had different motivations for different levels of pledges and they had certain (reasonable) expectations and wishes at that time and also later on. If a lot of what they've expected doesn't turn out to be true it's just a huge pile of money kind of wasted for some. Maybe that's not an issue for you personally. But at least try to understand that it IS an issue for me.

Who gave birth to the people who made that decision in the first place?! Do you see how silly the blame game becomes? Then maybe you should just stop posting here, derailing and belitteling other people's concerns. Thanks in advance.

I can understand why Obsidian did it this way, I don't necessarily agree with it being an international backer. And it's what baffled me when the poll went up and still continues to baffle me. There was always going to be a delay for the international backers when they receive their physical goods. Obsidian splitting the physical goods and sending the physical stuff without the disc and then paying extra to send the disc later when they know there is going to be a delay in the first place just amazes me. It might take an extra week to print the discs but the rest of the goods are delayed anyway. Better to send everything together. At least it will save Obsidian money. For what it's worth, I think the game DVDs won't be sent from the US to Europe (and elsewhere) but they will be directly produced in Europe by Paradox. So the shipping costs and times won't be that high for the game DVDs. As someone else has pointed out before, this could even mean that European backers get their physical game DVD before they get their boxes...

Alpha Protocol was pure gold at its core. It's imho Obsidian's best game so far...

The "normal shop versions" are probably made by Paradox in Europe. Only the backer editions are shipped from the US to everywhere in the world. That's the difference. Really no big mystery. And the only childish behaviour is yours, I'm afraid. As others have pointed out before, shipping to Europe isn't a "big mystery". Every half decent Ebay trader can ship a small package for 20 bucks in less than 7 business days to everywhere in the EU. It's really not THAT hard and you don't have to be ready with your physical stuff "a year before release" (you do know that exaggerations like that are childish?), not even close. And yeah, they're human. Human DO make mistakes. But that doesn't mean that everybody just has to "take it" as if nothing happened. In case humans and companies make mistakes it's very important how they react to that. The LEAST they could do is officially apologizing and explaining the whole situation to the public and best from the top of the company. They could AT LEAST make an official backer update instead of just writing a one liner on the forum. You know, it's a about respect and about showing some actual regret by making at least some effort. It's also about showing that you care and take your most loyal customers and fans and their concerns seriously. If you don't do that properly you make the situation even worse than it is. It's hard to build up a solid reputation but super easy to lose it... And I really don't get that "Hey, every kickstarter so far handled it badly so far, so it's ok" mentality. That's a royally ****ed up mentality imo. That's like saying "Hey, it's ok that the brakes of this car don't work as intended, every car manufacturer does it that way". I must have forgotten to read the memo that it's ok to behave in a bad way just because everyone else does so. And I must have forgotten to read the memo that crowdfunding means that you can behave unprofessionally just because you don't have a traditional publisher anymore...

Care about your own business, dude. You're free to ignore me but don't tell me how I should deal with that situation. I can talk about that issue as much as I want, ok? Or do you want to refund me out of your own pockets? If not, just keep out of my way and care about yourself. This is the very right thread to talk about that stuff. It's also quite arrogant to hear that stuff from someone living next door to Obsidian who most likely will get his stuff on release day. Sure my problems are not your problems and my situation is not your situation. And don't even try to explain that you know how I feel or what I think. I know very well what kickstarter is, thanks. I don't need you to explain that to me. And I'm sure Obsidian doesn't need you as their voice of defense anyway. And inexperience isn't an excuse for everything. That's why they got Paradox on board. And Brandon's excuse was the LEAST he could do, lame as ass, in a small post somewhere on the forum. It's ridiculous to even applaud Obsidian for that completely tragic and broken communication about the topic. No real office excuse, no real official communication (aka update), no top-down approach. Just a tiny "sorry" and that's it. Sorry, but that's not good enough in my books. I don't feel respected that way. You can call me annoying or whatever, I don't care. It's not like I give much about what a random stranger tells me on the internet how I should behave concering my own life... This. Nobody says anything about the game itself, I'm quite sure I don't. It's all about the shipping itself AND the communication about it. And they just ****ed that part up royally. That's just a fact.

I would probably pledge again but much less. I would take a normal all-digital tier. But it's probably better to ask that question again when we finally had the chance to play the final version of PoE.

As someone who has worked in several bigger and smaller companies before I can certainly tell you that crap happens - but that you also have to bear the consequences and to actively monitor your deliveries. Port is blocked? Ok, bad luck. Get your stuff to another port of send it by airmail ASAP. As a company you have a certain responsiblity and a reputation to lose after all... And it surely doesn't help to not being completely honest and upfront about that and showing TRUE regret from the top of the company. A small apologize somewhere buried in a thread (not even in the actual update text) is certainly not the right way to tell all the European backers that they won't get their physical stuff on time or even shortly after release. If you can't get physical stuff right next time just don't do it at all (aks Larian, they tell you the very same thing...). I certainly won't pledge for any high tier physical stuff if Obsidian ever does a kickstarter again, that's sure.

I know. But it still left a sour taste in my mouth. I mean, it's obvious that a signed version needs longer to ship. But then you just have to produce the boxes and the physical stuff at an earlier date to compensate for that. That's not what Obsidian did. On the opposite, Brandon admitted in this very thread that they "always knew that European backers wouldn't get their physical stuff on time" as if it was a weird law of nature that kickstarter funded games can't ship game packages on time to people who've pledged for it. And on top of that they've never told us before that this would be the case no matter what, surely not before the voting for example... I just don't agree that this is NOT Obsidian's fault or just something that couldn't have been prevented with better planning. A simple apology combined with this "it's really not our fault" attitude doesn't fix anything (for me at least). I just don't feel that this issue is taken seriously enough by Obsidian. That's why I'm disappointed and pissed. Edit: And of course I'm still looking forward to the game itself very much. That's not what this discussion is all about.

I knew otherwise. It will be an impossible task to get physical box rewards (sans dvd) delivered to all backers within a day or two of the release date. There is no way to do it. And one of those reasons is transit times. Different countries have different transit times. TBH, it wouldn't surprise me if some backers get the dvd before their box. You’d be able to take out your Collector’s Guidebook, your cloth map, your mousepad and enjoy all of it at the same you’re playing Pillars of Eternity. This should have been worded in other way, clearly stating, that it is a choice between a week or two and two to four depending on the region of the world with exception to US where you may have it most likely on day 1. Actually, that was just not true for every non-US backer. We won't be able to take out our collector's guidebooks, our cloth mapy or mousepads because we won't have all these stuff while playing Pillars. The time the stuff will arrive ("couple of weeks after release") I will most likely already have finished Pillars for once which will render all these physical things rather uninteresting, to put it mildly... Oh yeah, and who really cares about those backers? These guys have already paid a long time ago. Getting the game in time to the new customers is obviously much more important. That's probably why customers on Amazon and co get their physical boxes on release day here in Europe. I guess that's the proper way to thank the backers...

Ok, sorry for the misunderstanding then. I certainly didn't want to play the money card in a way that I had "more rights" than others in terms of how the game turns out for example. I certainly don't have. It also wasn't meant as some way of expressing that I were someone more important. But I do think that getting an expensive signed CE might follow a different motivation than getting the standard game box - apart from just pledging more of course. I think it's a much bigger issue for collector's that their version isn't "complete" than it is for most people (though perhaps not all) who pledged for standard box version or only just a digital version. An on a very personal level, spending 500 bucks can be a much bigger investment than spending 50 or 100 bucks (although that depends a lot on personal circumstances so I only talk about my personal situation here). So to get that out of the door: I think everyone in Europe (and elsewhere) and especially the ones with collection motivations are kind of ****ed, no matter how much they've pledged. It's just unfair to them that the box won't contain a game DVD and the box won't even arrive on time internationally now. So it's not just a money issue, it's more a "motivation" issue, if you just want to play the game or if you value your physical stuff or even collect game stuff.

It's disgusting to expect products you've paid for on a publicly communicated release day? It's disgusting to be furious that the product you've paid for is a whole lot less valuable? Jesus, what's next? Are people really that sheepish and brainwashed today, defending companies and fighting against consumers aka themselves? You know, I love crowdfunding. But that's just ****ed up, sorry. Good for you if you don't care. But stop about talking about MY money and how I feel about it as if you were someone better. That's none of your business. @shiroco I know. I'm just furious. 500 bucks (it was even more than that) is just a lot of money for me personally. And PoE is a game I really care about so I'm damn emotional right here.