ogrezilla

archers would need to be made noticeably stronger if they were adding such a drawback to them. I do not see archers needing to be noticeably stronger. A trained archer would not really have an issue with missing firing into a crowd, this would more come into effect for untrained archer or potentially if that trained archer has a critical miss. It all depends on the RP system that they implement as well. so as long as your archer was well trained, they wouldn't really have to worry about the FF problem? That works for me I suppose. I just think friendly fire for auto attacks is unnecessary but if done right I guess I wouldn't mind.

There are two problems with that logic. First, in a PnP game the GM is going to give the characters some consideration when he describes the gear so it's likely to fit into there style without modification. Second PnP games don't have graphics. Everything's in the players' heads so if they want things to match they can easily make them match. @Ieo: Actually, from a programming standpoint it's probably trivial to separate an items image from it's stats. In fact, depending on how a game handles it's resources, they probably already are. To me it makes most sense to have the models fo each item in their own files and have the stats for items in a text based list (or series of lists) with pointers to the models. If that's the case then all they would need to do is add an if statement the goes Get Item_slot Get Cosmetic_slot if (cosmetic_slot == null) { Character_model =Item_slot.Model; } else { Caracter_model=Cosmetic_slot.Model; } That's modeled on java and assumes the items stats are stored as java classes but you could implement the same thing in any number of languages. That's true that a PnP game is largely in the head, but what about found objects? If there is armor with associated factions, then wearing that armor should cause a certain reaction to your character, no? I guess I'm thinking of how Obsidian handled faction armor in Fallout New Vegas, what you wore could have serious consequences and I'd like to see a similar system in this game. If people really want to alter their character's appearance, then hopefully a modding toolkit will be available, or the meshes and textures will be alterable with overrides (sort of like Skyrim does it). I think most will agree with your point if the armor we wear has an impact beyond the stats. If people in game react differently depending on what armor you are wearing then yes, this idea stops working.

I still think I like the idea of "clothes" item slots for your character. Things like tunics and shawls or really any non-combat clothing that the characters could wear in addition to their armor that wouldn't have stats.

I really don't want to have to eat and drink. Do we have to go to the bathroom too? If I don't stop and shave should my party grow beards?

Its an unneeded vanity feature, sure. If somehow it would be difficult to implement (I can't imagine it would be) then it shouldn't be in. If the game world reacts to me differently based on the looks of my armor, I will concede that this idea would be bad. But assuming they don't because they never do, this option literally has no chance of hurting anyone ever in any situation. At all. It makes MORE sense in a single player game than a multiplayer game because nobody who doesn't like it will ever have to see it in effect. and I'm sorry, but if you're saying something like this wouldn't be noticeable with the graphics of ToEE I just plain disagree with you. And if the game isn't going to have the graphical quality and detail of a game from 2003 I am quite frankly going to be very disappointed. I don't expect every human male in chain armor to look identical aside from hair color in a game being released in 2014. If it looks exactly like that, this feature would be noticeable enough for me to enjoy it. Again, its not necessary. But if it was there, I'd use it and enjoy it.

one thing I would enjoy is a mode where the difficulty is designed for high or max level characters. For a typical play through I want reasonable leveling, but I could enjoy a run through where everything is an epic battle. That bandit and his dog that attacked you at the start of the game? Ya, now its a group of warlocks and their hellspawns and I'm hurling lightning bolts and cleaving them with my great axe. Given the chance to make a list of priorities for the game, this is probably on page two. but I think it'd be fun. And yes, its inspired by a similar mode in Devil May Cry. Sue me, I like action games too.

really got out of hand fast. my apologies.

ya this would be good. it just needs to be setup well.

No trolling. I'm being 100% serious. Demands like these are my berserk bottun. ... I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate them. Keep telling yourself that. thanks for confirming. you are either a troll or someone I just have no interest in communicating with. farewell.

Do I look like I care? No. The very existence of that option bothers me. that literally does not make sense to me. I can't wrap my head around it. To use your words, I think you have developed a very petty obsession.

N.O. The very idea offens me on an intellectual level. I will fight agaisnt this idea untill death and beyond. I honestly am having a hard time believing you are doing anything but trolling. Nobody is this condescending right? Your opinion is not better than ours.

How does this hurt you though? Does it really seem like a "great" thing to be forced to either be underpowered stat wise while wearing a set of armor you really really like, or having to ditch it for armor that you might think looks "fruity?" I see no downside to it, no one is forcing you to do it, it'd be a choice. If you like going through new equipment and changing your like you wouldn't have to use this. Choice between looks or functionality is a very real one, so why should you be exempet from making it? Not that I think the developers will make ugly armors, but the idea sucks. It bothers me when people want to cheat the mechanics because of their PETTY obsessions. Don't like the game? Don't play it. Don't like the armor? Don't wear it. It isn't breaking anything. Its graphics. My game would play exactly like yours even if my guys all looked like they were wearing pretty pink dresses. You'll never even know I did it.

I don't really need them to be particularly detailed. But I would like enough detail that if two people in my party are wearing chain mail and a similar helmet, I would like to be able to tell them apart. I know I could make them wear different colors in the older games. And I did. But I'd like something a bit more than that. If this game looks exactly like ToEE I will be happy. If I am able to add a tunic or something on top of what we saw 11 years ago, I would be that much happier.

right, things like what Teknoman2 said are bad design. I personally don't really like quest only experience, but the game needs to be designed well enough so things like that don't happen.

Isn't that an issue with quest design rather than the XP system? If the quest was given a completion flag after a succesful resolution which resulted in no added XP for solvng the same objective 3 times, there would be no problem. Or am I being obtuse? if you get experience from multiple sources you could potentially end up with something like this happening. I have a quest where I can talk this guy out of fighting, or I can kill him. I choose to talk him out of fighting, thus completing the quest and receive my experience. Then I immediately kill him and get the experience earned for killing things. Its not a quest reward this time, its combat experience. Or maybe I need to get an item from a castle. I can fight my way in or sneak in and steal it. It wouldn't be good balance if the combat method gave too much more experience due to the actual combat experience along the way PLUS the quest experience, so the sneaking version of the quest gives more experience. And then I go back in and kill everybody. This sort of thing would need to be carefully looked at in a LOT of situations if combat or other actions give experience. There would need to be some trigger that says that if I complete this guys quest and leave him alive, he shouldn't give me experience for killing him afterwords. If I have stolen the thingamajig from the castle using stealth I can't get experience for going back to kill the guards. As long as its worked out so you can't double dip in experience I really wouldn't have a problem with it, but its something that I've seen in games before.

I guess I'm also talking under the assumption that actual talented people are making this game. I want the game to look as good as possible whatever artistic style that means.

classes are confirmed I believe.

I'm going with the assumption that something like this is the bare minimum we should be expecting as far as graphical detail. Slap a tunic on one of those armored fellows and I would definitely be able to notice.

That would be perfectly reasonable I think. What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example. What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath. It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic. Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually. Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair. I'm curious to see the eventual early in game shots to give us a basic idea of what to expect. We'll see eventually. Kind of hard to wait, the entire project is quite exciting. absolutely. The first in game shot will answer a lot of questions. Like, would this even be noticeable enough to be worth including. If the game looks exactly like the games from 2000, I would say no. I'm just assuming that when they say its a game paying homage to games from that time, they still plan on making a game that looks and feels like its being released in 2014. I could be wrong. I would still play the game and probably love it. But my ideal Project Eternity is a classic RPG, not an old RPG.

if they want use player skills to implement something that lets us either create our own armor that is as good as the armor we can find while customizing how it looks, that would be awesome. I would be perfectly happy with that solution. Like I said in the first post, the whole idea is completely unnecessary. I just think it would be kind of neat. It really blows my mind that menu options ruin the immersion of these games so easily though. Does the floating hand controlling your character's actions bother you? The colored circles when you select something? Or the fact that your Paladin NPC friend will get mad at you when you act like a jerk in conversation, but the second you tell them to bash an innkeepers face in he will do it without hesitation? It's a game. There is a game interface that lets you do all sorts of silly things that are much more ridiculous than changing how you look. My reaction might be irrational, but really I think it's kind of like the straw the breaks the camel's back. RPGs are typically about the suspension of disbelief, but usually they are at least somewhat rooted to some kind of real-world touchstone, or have some kind of internal logic. Being able to automagically alter your armor with a little inventory button is the kind of meta-gaming that breaks the fourth wall for me. I'm perfectly fine with a non-meta gaming mechanic (like crafting skills/feats) however. I'd be perfectly happy if crafting is the best we get. In fact, I'd be fine with nothing of the sort included. Its just something that I would like. The old games already allowed you to change the colors of parts of your clothes at any moment. I know its not as blatant, but its also not completely different.

That would be perfectly reasonable I think. What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example. What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath. It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic. Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually. Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair.

I actually didn't think of that, but now that you mention it I guess I do. Just preferably not all the exact same thing with different colors and symbols. I mean, that would work I suppose. That would be completely optional. It would be completely within the immersion of the game and perfectly reasonable not to wear anything over your armor. I figure you could allow for more creativity than just that. Things like overcoats or whatever types of clothes fits the style of the game.

That would be perfectly reasonable I think. What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example. What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath. Different types of armors could allow for different types of clothes over them.

if they want use player skills to implement something that lets us either create our own armor that is as good as the armor we can find while customizing how it looks, that would be awesome. I would be perfectly happy with that solution. Like I said in the first post, the whole idea is completely unnecessary. I just think it would be kind of neat. It really blows my mind that menu options ruin the immersion of these games so easily though. Does the floating hand controlling your character's actions bother you? The colored circles when you select something? Or the fact that your Paladin NPC friend will get mad at you when you act like a jerk in conversation, but the second you tell them to bash an innkeepers face in he will do it without hesitation? It's a game. There is a game interface that lets you do all sorts of silly things that are much more ridiculous than changing how you look.

but why do you care if I break my immersion in my single player RPG?