Sensuki

That's fine man, I can't help but be biased towards it and I understand why people would prefer the other one. Just having done the research I just don't think it's a better option. I think that the fact that classes "don't need AoE and Durations" or whatever can be fixed by giving all the classes some durations and AoEs. The Deflection/Concentration thing will be fixed when the AI is improved, then it will matter for more characters than currently.

yeah that's a known issue.

I am not sure that the animal companion mechanics work like that ? 2% damage per point for every damaging action that you make is better than whatever 0.5s loss of DPS per interrupt is worth IMO. There MAY be a situation where you actually lose more DPS in an individual fight, but for the far majority of fights in the game, the damage and accuracy is better. Matt is the numbers guy, but the actual benefit from Concentration is really hard to work out because it's so convoluted. But yeah another thing that's kinda strange is what purpose does mixing benefits serve? It seems like the Deflection/AoE and Durations/Concentration is trying to make up for flaws in the class design and the game itself than anything.

That's certainly true but it also depends what they're attacking you with Deflection and Concentration together would be great for actually making it worth taking to prevent that loss though because they both contribute to effective interrupt resistance. I think that's a bit unfair, because I don't think it's just me in favor of my idea. At the moment it's me arguing about it against two people is all. I know PrimeJunta and IndiraLightFoot and a bunch of other people earlier in the thread also said they didn't like Josh's proposal as much.

Yeah me too, I prefer our system, I may be biased on that. But the other one we're talking about isn't that much worse, but I'd lose a bit more sleep over it than Matt would I think Not the same thing, it reduces your effective DPS if you're doing damaging actions and effective durations on non-damaging actions

Animal Companions have their own base Deflection I think. They would likely get some sort of benefit from leveling up though, but they would not get your Deflection bonus because they have their own individual pros and cons. Rogue needs a re-work, faaar too passive IMO. Really boring. They were originally going to be a more active class but they changed it. There needs to be some work done so that classes actually get a benefit from such things.

Concentration reduces DPS loss, if you want more DPS it's always better to max Might and Accuracy instead and cop the interrupts. They could put it to vote in a KS update or something tbh, or test both internally and see what feels better - or give us two diff versions one after the other and then have us vote on it. Would be nice to test the differences.

I am talking about balanced choices, not balanced for all possible builds. But I'm not sure who you're talking to exactly, but probably me.

Buffs need to be nerfed and so does healing spells, they are all ridiculously OP atm - mostly because the default durations are too long, and the heal/sec is too high. Durations and Concentration would be dumpable on quite a few classes IMO. The classes with the least durations would quite literally laugh at this attribute and just grab Deflection/AoE instead. Barbarians spring to mind - Intellect was already good on Barbarians, but now it's like LOL THX GUISE free Deflection! They don't need extra durations or concentration. There's other classes like that as well. If the goal of the system is not balance then fine, whatever. But I think that our solution is the more balanced of the two. The Durations/Concentration and Deflection/AoEs makes it harder for some classes to get the main benefits they want and much easier for other classes to get theirs. I guess it depends on what classes you intend to play. I don't have a preference so I'd rather the system be balanced properly. and yeah like I've been saying - Acc/Int together would smash Concentration on it's own. If you raised the Concentration value to compensate then that would trivialize the interrupt system in general.

Would be pretty dumpable on Ranger and possibly Rogue too.

The reason I don't like the Durations/Concentration and Deflection/AoE is because it makes the attribute system a lot more unfair on certain classes than others. for DPSers I would say the best attributes would be Might, followed by Perception for Tanks - Constitution and (whatever governs Deflection) for Damage based casters - Might and either durations or AoE, depending on class and for support casters - Durations and AoEs (if on same attribute) and Action Speed now this makes Action Speed harder to work into any build at all by default and it makes support based casters focus on two attributes just to get the two things that they already got from one attribute in the original system. I think it creates less choice for them, because you'll want to get both the AoEs and the Durations, and have less attribute points to spend on other things. It also makes other things easier to get for other classes. Hopefully it's not just me that cares about this balance either. So that's what I don't like about it. It's not terrible, but I don't think it's as balanced as our version, YMMV. OH, yeah and of course - it makes Accuracy and Interrupt automatically overpower Concentration on it's own because of the combined benefit they give to Interrupt. The ACC/INT and DEF/CON thing was what made me go to all the effort to make the paper in the first place. They could change the Interrupt mechanics or something, but I don't know if that would be a good thing.

If you put your hand on a log and PJ hits your hand the blunt end, I assure you, your hand will take crushing damage.

Totally ripped that sh1t from Troy Denning's Waterdeep lol.

Help Woedica regain her throne among the gods or take it yourself - PE 3 Divine level campaign.

I agree that there needs to be a different animation for recovery (which should be more active) and the current combat idle. I wouldn't say change the current idle, I'd say make a recovery time animation where units have a more guarded stance. Characters with shields hold their shields infront of them, and so on and so forth. Already suggested this multiple times, but yeah, glad someone agrees.

Yeah I think decoupling AoE and Duration is not good because yeah sure okay, you're making it harder to choose for some classes, but I think that will have a negative effect on the balance. even with AoE scaling and AoE increase enemy only, I think Durations are way more valuable for pretty much every class except *maybe* the Wizard as they could then dump fireballs ontop of their party. But the thing is if you smartly position your party for buffs, and smartly aim offensive AoEs and debuffs, you can get away without much AoE increase at all (if any) from the lowest value, at least that's what I've found anyway. I don't think the double the square area is that big. You can make up for that deficit with smart play. But you can't make up for a duration deficit.

yeah if I had to choose I'd prefer mouse wheel scaling of aoe as well (for hostile aoes only)

Ahhh LOL yes Yeah but you're looking at it from the wrong point of view. The whole game design is being done from a mindset not bound by 'simulation' so some stuff may not make complete sense and you may have to use your own suspension of disbelief, but it is being done because it will produce better gameplay. It takes time to get over. When we first learned that all damage would be from the same attribute, I was not impressed and I had the same reaction as you did. However it's taken me time to come to terms with/understand the point of view.

I like the red fill as well.

All they have to do is change the wording of the attribute description and it solves the problem. I don't know that physical strength equates to more damage anyway as with swords, their damage comes from cuts, do you need to be strong to draw a blade across skin? Not really.

It's been known since June 2013 that all damage would come from the same attribute. I suppose that wasn't widely known info, you'd had to have read our RPGCodex Q&A from back then.

Gotta be careful about size, when you shrink that back to it's size in game, anyone who has worse eyes than me (I can read small text and I can read text from long distances away) will not be able to read that.

No I mean I can't stand upscaled art, the default zoom level in BG:EE when it launched was below source res and made me cry, and it reset on every area transition. Was enough to not play again!

That's a bold statement and you're back to being antagonistic again because I refuse to agree with you. And by the way, now I recall you were arguing with me about the Interrupt relationship the other day in another thread before we posted this paper. Let's have a look at those posts. Now we have found in the paper that having a low Perception/high Accuracy character in the current system is the _WORST_ possible build you could make in the current system, and Matt will attest to that. Now as for the antagonistic part, when checking your most recent posts 31/40 of your lasts posts are all arguing and disagreeing with me on various topics and often subtly insulting me as well. You obviously have some kind of problem with me mate *shrug*. Your posts are also vitriol to the good tone of the thread, and I would hate to see it ruined, so I'm just not going to bother replying to you in it anymore.

My reasons for disagreeing with the separation of AoEs and Durations are not based on creating hard choices between concepts, but trying to meet the design goals of the system and create the maximum amount of flexibility for class build viability. I don't know if you understand how Interrupt works properly, I'll find the mechanics for you and edit the post. That 3% is 3% of the Base Interrupt value of the weapon or spell you are using, it's not 3% more chance to Interrupt. Matt516 is the numbers guy, he'll be able to tell you better than I can when he posts here next.