~Di

double post... sorry

It was a horrific incident. My condolences to all affected by this tragedy.

I agree. There's Israel's side, there's the Palestinian side, and then there's the truth, which I suspect nobody on the planet really knows. Bottom line, dispite Israel's totally botched boarding on ship 6... and when it came along side it should have immediately known that the situation was hostile and potentially deadly, yet they walked right into it anyway, the fools... Israel honestly believes that controlling contraband that could be use to manufacture explosives, rockets and weapons or to assist Hamas' hobby of building tunnels is critical to its own security. Therefore, Israel is never going to lift the blockade and will continue to inspect all cargo going into Gaza. It doesn't care what the international community says because it believes its own security is at stake. *shrug* Nothing is going to change in our lifetimes, because the world has bred more generations of people who are absolutely polarized on this issue and will never change their stance or their minds. On both sides.

This is exactly what I was complaining about in my original post. International media is not providing both sides of the story. Because of that, half the planet is getting biased, incomplete information and have turned into rabid, irrational Israel haters who will not believe any source that gives both sides of the story and doesn't conform to what they want to believe... which is that Israel is evil and always in the wrong. Er, you do realize that there probably wasn't 120 trucks available to deliver the entire cargo of all six trucks at once, right? You just presume that Israel "stole" the rest of it without the slightest evidence for your allegation, then make a snide remark to me?? You also realize that Israel provides more than 2 million tons of food, fuel and supplies to Gaza annually, at its own expense. That's nearly two tons each for every man, woman and child in Gaza. Of course, Israel does not distribute the supplies to the populace. Hamas takes control of it... and of course, would not dream of distributing those supplies to themselves and their supporters instead of to the general populace. Hey, I might as well go ahead and accuse Hamas, since I have as much proof for my allegation as you have for yours. Israel suffered casualties. Ten soldiers were wounded seriously enough to be hospitalized, many are still in critical condition. The video shows many soldiers jumping overboard to save their own lives. Those attackers were not helpless. They had deadly weapons of their own, and then they had firearms taken from the soldiers they had beaten. They started their attack when the boarding boat came along side, and their arsenal included stun grenades. I posted the YouTube link. Try checking it out. Try reading newspapers that are not your "local source", and see if there isn't some information missing from said source, information that might be relevant to your decision-making process. Not that it will matter. You have tunnel vision. You know what you believe and will not consider any evidence that does not support those beliefs. You are the walking personification of the problem, and the reason why said problem will not be solved in my lifetime, or in yours.

Supposedly Egypt took 2 days off to allow aid to pass over land to make a good faith effort, but now they are back as part of the blockade. This is interesting video, shot by someone on that sixth ship. This is apparently Israel's first attempt at boarding, and why they had to go the chopper route eventually. Note the use of a stun grenade thrown into the Israeli boarding craft. There's plenty of blame to go around here. Edit: Apparently I don't know how to properly embed. I'm sorry, you'll have to cut and paste... or enlighten me.

Yes, they did. But unlike the Fox News (or wherever you get your news from) they also happened to mention that Israel sets their own rules as to what constitutes humanitarian aid. Rules that seemingly override what the rest of the world (and the UN) sees as humanitarian aid. This means that only a fraction of what the boats were carrying would ever reach the civilians in Gaza and the rest would be stolen by Israel. This happens all the time (read what other help organizations have been put through by the Israeli government) and this is the very reason they are trying to send boats directly to Gaza! If you stop to think for a moment: if Israel were so kind-hearted and willing to help and just wanted to inspect the goods, why on earth do you think Ship to Gaza chose to try to circumvent this? Why go through all that trouble if they were free to help the people in Gaza? The rest of the post is typical Di nonsense. Yeah, sure, the rest of the world is biased against Israel for no reason whatsoever.. And the video released by Israeli forces clearly shows the entire picture and is not a propaganda piece.. And Gaza is not starving, which is why the entire world is currently engaged in trying to bring food/aid to the civilian population.. And please forget that they boarded these ships on international waters.. Or the fact that nine people were killed by soldiers bearing firearms (and no soldiers were killed, despite the video showing how they were brutally attacked).. The bolded area is a personal attack that I don't appreciate. You may disagree with me if you wish, but do so with civility. I won't tolerate being dismissed as an imbecile. That said, Hamas apparently isn't as worried about their starving populace as you think. http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/02/....aid/index.html Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israel has attempted to deliver humanitarian aid from an international flotilla to Gaza, but Hamas -- which controls the territory -- has refused to accept the cargo, the Israel Defense Forces said Wednesday. Palestinian sources confirmed that trucks that arrived from Israel at the Rafah terminal at the Israel-Gaza border were barred from delivering the aid. Ra'ed Fatooh, in charge of the crossings, and Jamal Khudari, head of a committee against the Gaza blockade, said Israel must release all flotilla detainees and that it will be accepted in the territory only by the Free Gaza Movement people who organized the flotilla. Israel said it had 20 trucks of aid found on the ships, such as expired medications, clothing, blankets, some medical equipment and toys. Each of these boats were informed that they would be boarded and escorted to the Israeli port for inspection. Five of the boardings went smoothly. The sixth one didn't, and we've seen why. At that point, Israeli soldiers, who were being beaten and having their weapons taken, were acting in self-defense although clearly you don't care about the facts, only the hyperbole. I've already said that Israel mucked this operation up badly, but confrontation and blockade-busting was the primary goal of this flotilla. And they got exactly what they'd hoped to get... confrontation and international condemnation of Israel. As for your comment that there were no terrorists on the flotilla, that is still a matter of suspicion. http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177328 "WASHINGTON

Damn! Way to go!!

Great old-school game, really great... and the music is to die for! You'll enjoy it. (IWD2, not so much. I really didn't care for that one.)

Whoa, didn't mean to start a thread hijacking! But since I did, I'm glad I never bought the game, since what I learned about it during development was that it would bear absolutely no resemblance to NWN2 itself, and seemed to be a totally foreign concept tacked on as an "expansion" to a game that I pretty much liked as it was.

That link didn't work for me, but my curiosity was piqued and I found this: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37453610/ns/...-entertainment/ Apparently the guy is an expert in deep sea submersible technology, having designed some equipment himself in order to film two documentaries about the Titanic. I did not know that!

I must say, sweetie, that your positive attitude dispite what you've gone through is inspiring. You do have people who care about you, and are proud of how far you've come. I think you'll go all the way this time. Of course, your daily walks will take a hit for a while...

I've really been disgusted about how the world media, including most American media, have reported this incident. Instantly, Israel was deemed guilty of heinous crimes and howls of outrage were echoed around the globe. Then we find out that all the ships were invited to dock in Israel, off-load their supplies for inspection, then carry them into Gaza overland. The flotilla refused this. Did the world media report this? I don't know, but the only way I learned about it was from a single comment in the middle of an Israeli-bash session on CNN. The we learn that every boat boarded was informed that it was going to be boarded and escorted to said Israeli dock before boarding began. Five of those went smoothly. On the sixth boat, soldiers were attacked and beaten even before the first guy landed on deck. NO! screams the activists. YES, says the video. Again, all the extenuating factors are ignored and Israel continues to be castigated in the media. No wonder the world is so biased against Israel that half the population of the planet is convinced of Israel's complete and total guilt based solely on allegations. Whether we like the military blockade or not, Israel is technically at war with Hamas and has every right to inspect any ships bringing cargo to the area. Don't forget that over 1 million tons of food, fuel, medical and other supplies are supplied to Gaza by Israel every year... that's one ton for every person there. Gaza is not starving. Israel is feeding them and giving them water at its expense. These howls of genocide are repulsive. Did Israel screw this mission up? Obviously, because it had not considered that confrontation, not aid, was the primary mission here. That was an unforgiveable intelligence snafu, since many in the flotilla had already been bragging that very thing to any who would listen. I find the title of this thread not only repugnant, but verifiably false and inflammatory. Every time there is any kind of a dust-up involving Israel, this same damned thing happens. Israel is evil, living only to slaughter peaceful innocents and starve them into submission. Thing is, there are two sides to every story, and I'm sick of the world media pretending that there is only one, thereby breeding more and more irrational hate-mongers who are unable to separate reality from sheer prejudicial and bigoted pap.

I disagree. Drowning isn't a pretty thing. There have been no reports of any killed Israeli soldiers. Not yet. Ten of them are in the hospital, some in very critical condition. The guy who was yanked off the rope, beaten by a half-dozen people then dumped over the rail to the lower deck is in pretty bad shape as well. According to some of the various video clips I've seen, he was the first guy there. He didn't have a chance.

The second NWN2 expansion, Storm of Zehier. A fabulous game. Ah. Thank you.

SoZ? What's that? I think I knew once, but I forgot. It's hell to get old...

Oh, no! I just knew there was something really wrong... *hugs* I'm so sorry.

Y'all are aware, are you not, that Israel is not the only country enforcing that blockade. It's actually a joint blockade created and enforced by both Israel and Egypt. And BTW, there are several Israelis in critical condition because of this incident, not to mention that Reuters got much of the clash on film, including a couple of Israelis that literally threw themselves overboard to save their lives after they were beaten and their weapons taken. This flotilla, which refused Israel's offer to unload aid items for inspection, has been proudly announcing its one and only purpose: To force confrontation. Well, mission accomplished. I'm sure they are very proud.

True, true. FemShep acts like a **** with Jacob, romancing Garrus would seem rather incestuous since he's more like a brother than a lover, and the bug-eyed assassin is about as sexy as an iguana on steroids. I already have a FemShep save remaining faithful to Kaiden, because hope springs eternal.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=oil%20le...l=en&tab=wn Oh, come on, I'm not going to search everything on the google page. Just glancing at them reveals that not one of those sources claims that the leak is actually plugged. The fact is that the leak is not yet plugged. The effort was actually shut down for 16 hours today due to some kind of technical problems. If you'd bothered to read, oh I dunno, the first few links you'd know immediately what the situation is. I do know what the situation is. They are still trying to plug the leak, but it will be a couple of days before they know if it works or not. Nothing on your google page says anything different from what I saw. If I missed something, do give me a link to it specifically, along with the verbage you think supports your claim. What exactly is my claim according to you? Your claim: I was not in a state of uncertainty. I said the leak has not been plugged. And it hasn't.

You almost made me double-check whether ME2 had a gay romance after all. Then I remembered Jack's the mad chick. Yeah, once past the visual junk ink and the bad attitude, her story turned out to be very poignant and touching... as was the love-making scene. It truly seemed like "love making" instead of just plain let's-get-laid sex. (Unlike some of the other romances, lol)

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=oil%20le...l=en&tab=wn Oh, come on, I'm not going to search everything on the google page. Just glancing at them reveals that not one of those sources claims that the leak is actually plugged. The fact is that the leak is not yet plugged. The effort was actually shut down for 16 hours today due to some kind of technical problems. If you'd bothered to read, oh I dunno, the first few links you'd know immediately what the situation is. I do know what the situation is. They are still trying to plug the leak, but it will be a couple of days before they know if it works or not. Nothing on your google page says anything different from what I saw. If I missed something, do give me a link to it specifically, along with the verbage you think supports your claim.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=oil%20le...l=en&tab=wn Oh, come on, I'm not going to search everything on the google page. Just glancing at them reveals that not one of those sources claims that the leak is actually plugged. The fact is that the leak is not yet plugged. The effort was actually shut down for 16 hours today due to some kind of technical problems.

I actually thought the sex scene with paragon MaleShep and Jack was mature, yet very tastefully done. The one with Miranda... well... back to someone's puerile male fantasy.

It's okay with me if schools want to ban religious items or silly bracelets in class. Schools have a right to enforce a dress code. Only when they have no such ban, but unilaterally decide that students of one race will be sent home for wearing something that students of another race are allowed to wear do I have a problem.

Do you have a link to the BBC site that claims the well has been plugged? Because no American media has made such a claim, and it would really be breaking news bigtime if it had indeed happened.