Sargallath Abraxium

...hehehe...great, more sheriffs...hehehe... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Bait. That's a slight reinterpretation of what you actually said before ... ...no, what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin'...sorry it were not Diablows-like enuff fer ya... ... where "learning your tactics was wrong" and "learning to rethink the battle", which implies the player, not the character, is growing in his or her tactical skill and that is roleplayin. Straw man is setting up an argument for your opponent that he isn't making because it's easier to shoot down. You are arguing that combat tactics is role-playing. I'm saying it isn't. No straw man there, unless the previous underline part isn't your argument? ---- And there's still this, too... where you were wrong. So, yeah. The disagreement is you saying that tactics and strategy for overcoming a given fight equals role-playing, and I say it doesn't It equals game-playing. Role-playing is making decisions in character. Planning out resource management and how to line up your 6 party members has very, very little role-playing in it. ...tactics & strategy is part o' roleplayin' yer character...jus' like it be in table top (A)DnD...hence me sayin' ya counterin' yerself midpost...an' "straw man" was misrepresentin' me arguement, which ya tried...an' failed...but, hey, 'least ya learned somethin'... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

I lost plenty, but then I didn't have the familiarity with D&D that some seems to have Yeah, I worked out the spell immunity abjuration for myself, as I did using the ring of the ram (which Kangaxx for weird reasons was not immune to at all) and barbarian rage seems to negate the imprisonment as well (although Minsc for other strange reasons didn't seem to have the same kind of rage, him still getting imprisoned) and then just whack away with the few +5 weapons you've got in your arsenal. Easy enough when you know how, but for the uninitiated there is/was some trial and error involved ...absolutely was a tough fight an' absolutely was possible when ya was somewhat prepared fer a Lich fight...an' wit'out cheatin'... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Just one? Ok.....The Kangaxx fight. You either had to guess correctly, or else you had to come online/use the strategy guide to get the step-by-step How-to. if you didn't, you lost one party member per round, until there was no one left and it was Game Over. I still don't get why is this bad and should be fixed. Kangaxx fight was awesome. It's not bad. it's Awesome. But lets not pretend that "smart" players could just correctly guess, the first time out, on how successfully take him on. Our Dwarven-dialected friend, above, is kinda pulling our collective legs,. here. (which is fine. We're all prideful, hard core Ego-gods, here) But lets tell it like it is: It takes either ESP, or a strategy guide, or a reload, or hint-gathering from message boards, to go into that fight blind, and emerge victorious the very first time out. Too many tools required. Too many variables involved. And PS: Kangaxx the demilich is immune to level 9 or lower spells, so NO, Sargallath, your Sunray had NO EFFECT on him. But I do wonder how you managed to protect your cleric from imprisonment while she cast Sunray. Hindsight says you used a protection from Undead scroll, but how did you know to bring one on your first time through....and to use it AFTER the transformation instead of before..... that's my question. However, for me at least, all it took was a single reload. ...ummm, no, no "pullin' legs"...1st try...no cheatin'...Sunray has effect on Lich...Demi-Lich surpised me, but still beat his arse an' no one got dead......happened...liek I's says, preparation & payin' attention... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...why not jus' play a superhero, in that case...or a God... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Just one? Ok.....The Kangaxx fight. You either had to guess correctly, or else you had to come online/use the strategy guide to get the step-by-step How-to. if you didn't, you lost one party member per round, until there was no one left and it was Game Over. ...I ne'er lost one party member anytime I's e'er fought Kangaxx...Spell Immunity - Abjuration (Imprisonment be neutralized) was an automatic against Liches, so no worries (imagined, prepared ahead o' time wit'out cheatin')...me mage cast it on theysselves an' stood closest ta 'im, so he'd keep castin' Imprisonment on them an' fail...no guessin' involved... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... <sigh> Sure, man. The first time you discovered Kangaxx, you (of course) had not known about the encounter before via message board or strategy-guid how-to's but you still miraculously managed to forsee: 1) that it would be a double battle where you were required to prepare Spell immunity twice (since the automatic-dispell magic kicked in immediately upon his transformation from Lich to Demi-lich 2) That the rest of your party would be in danger of Imprisonment, and therefore you instinctively had them wait by the door while your mage took him on alone 3) That you'd need a +5 weapon of equivalent to actually kill him (assuming of course that you didn't use up all your Melf meteors against his lich form. Yeah. Honesty.... who needs it, baby! ...ummm, yea, Lich battles happen, so had a couple o' Spell Immunity - Abjuration ready...funny how knowin' that Kangaxx would target closest party member (go figure) got me ta 'ave me mage (an' a few summoned monsters) closest...an Sunray (cleric) works wonders, as it does against undead...why be it hard ta believe that bein' prepared doesna 'ave ta mean cheatin'??...payin' attention works... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...'cept that restin' after e'ery fight didna always work; got interrupted a fair bit...am not sayin' mechanics was perfect, but interruptin' rest works fine ta stop those that abuses it...an' really, only thing peoples is doin' abusin' the rest function be takin' the fun away from theysselves, an' if'n peoples is gonna powergame, theys gonna find a way ta do it...sad, but true... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Just one? Ok.....The Kangaxx fight. You either had to guess correctly, or else you had to come online/use the strategy guide to get the step-by-step How-to. if you didn't, you lost one party member per round, until there was no one left and it was Game Over. ...I ne'er lost one party member anytime I's e'er fought Kangaxx...Spell Immunity - Abjuration (Imprisonment be neutralized) was an automatic against Liches, so no worries (imagined, prepared ahead o' time wit'out cheatin')...me mage cast it on theysselves an' stood closest ta 'im, so he'd keep castin' Imprisonment on them an' fail...no guessin' involved... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

..ye jus' countered yer own point in mid post... Hmmm. My point - (1)your definition of role-playing doesn't hold any water, or that (2)dying in combat doesn't force you to role-play? "you have kind of have to make a new character. If you are role-playing, there's no "redo" button." is roughly the middle of my post. I guess we use that. Point 1: "your definition of role-playing doesn't hold any water" - You posited that having to reload and redo a battle, or, to quote you exactly, "what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin", is role-playing. That, somehow, role-playing means having sound tactics in battle. I say that role-playing means that if your character dies acting in character, he dies (role-playing means acting in character) and you have to make a new one because it isn't role-playing to "redo" a scene... the "there's no 'redo' button" part. Maybe learning tactics in combat is part of playing an RPG, especially an older-style cRPG... but tactics in combat != role-playing. Two different things. I'm fairly certain I didn't counter that point. Maybe you meant - Point 2 - "dying in combat doesn't force you to role-play" This one is just silly. "You have kind of have to make a new character. If you are role-playing, there's no "redo" button." pretty much IS my second point, the point made to reinforce the first point that your definition of role-playing... excuse me, "roleplayin" ... isn't sound. Ignoring the striked-out part, I think here we have that the sign that you don't actually mean "role-playing" but "playing an RPG"... which really are not the same thing. 1+1 = 2 in my world. Unfortunately for me 1 is one and it looks like for you 1 = arbitrary opinion. You ask a hundred role-players what role-playing is, you'll get dozens of different answers... but I seriously doubt you'd reach a consensus that summarizes as "tactics and strategy in combat." And on this we both agree. ...yer loose in the head, lad...ne'er once did I say that roleplaying was strategy & tactics, I's said that sound tactics & strategy was part o' roleplayin' yer character...quit creatin' straw man where none was...an' e'en if'n they dies, can still roleplay same character in same battle...yer roleplayin'...nuthin' has ta stop ya roleplayin' yer character; that be why it be called roleplayin' an' not called bein'...no "arbitrary" opinion; be fact...only thing that can stop ya from roleplayin' yer character be a conscious decision on yer own part...if'n you canna do it, that be a limitation on yer part... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...jus' so's y'all dunna get too bent out o' shape, on pretty much e'ery news report or release o' a BIS/Obsidz game, boards get like this...actually, sometimes e'en worse (IWD 2 was pretty bad on the ol' BIS boards)...Obsidz usually takes it in stride... ..WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...WHY, BIO, WHY??... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

~ popcorn ~ ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...jus' say no ta boobplate... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...no, what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin'...sorry it were not Diablows-like enuff fer ya... Uhm, I don't think your definition of role-playing holds any water. If you die in the game, and you are role-playing... you kind of have to make a new character. If you are role-playing, there's no "redo" button. What it forces you to do isn't role-playing... it forces you to rethink tactics. Perhaps even strategies. But tactics != role-playing.... unless you are meta-role-playing a gamer who is trying over and over against to win a game's combat. ..ye jus' countered yer own point in mid post...rethinkin' tactics & strategies in mid battle in hope's to win said battle cuz the tactics & strategies ya started wit' ain't workin'...part o' roleplayin'...wow; does 1+1 not = 2 in yer world??...dyin' or not, strategizin' & battlefield tactics be certainly a part o' cRPGin', ya know, computer Roleplayin' game... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

How did you defeat Sarevok? By cheating (the one fight in all of the IE games I never did honestly). ...'Tep, I's shocked... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...name one fight in SoA/ToB where ya absolutely had ta guess correctly 'bout spells or reload...I canna name one where ya jus' hadta randomly guess an' had no way ta prepare in some way' aforehand...jus' one... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...ya musta played different IE games than I's played, cuz I learned preparation was key in IE games battles; many encounters wit' many different stategies...an' I wasna shown the answer...not once...as far as first encounter bein' a "guess"; not if'n ya was prepared fer what may lay ahead...see dots...see dots connect...connect dots, connect... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

I don't remember it sucking in any of the IE games. I remember countless times facing a tough fight, dying and reloading only to pick a new set of spells. I see, i died and had to reload = game sucks. IE games encouraged preparing for a fight. But you had to know what to expect in the fight to properly prepare for it. That almost always meant you had to have seen the fight before or else you were just making your best guess as to how to prepare for it. It wasn't thoughtful strategy. You either knew the correct answer or you didn't. ...not knowin' exactly what ta expect happens in battle, but bein' prepared for what be most likely ta happen be the point...no right answer or wrong answer, per say, jus' good preparation...hence roleplayin'...wow, look at that, dots do connect... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...no, what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin'...sorry it were not Diablows-like enuff fer ya... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!... What you describe isn't tactics nor is it roleplaying ...I ain't described shyte; jus' explained yer lack o' understandin' o' what cRPG's be bringin' ta the table...an' then ya proved it...thanks fer lessenin' me hope fer this generation o' RPGers e'en more... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Except for boobplate? ...hehehe...boob...hehehe ...y'all knows Josh jus' be baitin' ya's, eh??...next he's gonna pull Overseer outta retirement an' close the topic, jus' like ol' times... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...no, what it did was tell ya that ya was wrong in yer tactics an' ta rethink the battle...hence roleplayin'...sorry it were not Diablows-like enuff fer ya... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...has nuthin' ta do wit' "sexism"...boob armor be a waste o' resources best used elsewhere...why waste time on horny li'l teenyboppers??...go watch pr0n... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

...that be why blowin' off a bit o' steam 'ere does one good...jus' take up trollin' fer a bit... ...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...