BruceVC

So the prince has been born and he is a cute "little critter" http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/23/world/europe/uk-royal-baby/ Its all over the news and for me its significant but I wouldn't mind a break from the constant updates on the international News Channels. Anyway what do you guys think, do you care and have you been following the developments?

Nope its not new, I've been making this point for ages. But its not as simple as that, I would rather say you will increase the fan base as Romances are popular and Romance do draw certain loyal groups of people who love discussing and supporting them. And by increasing the fan base you would assume that these people would buy PE and that will generate more revenue.

Funny

I just don't believe romances are the key to this. I would seriously doubt you would see a massive sales drop off in a bioware game where romance wasn't included. All your are doing is trying to connect sales to romance based on your desire to see romance in the game. I believe that most people would prefer Romance over MP, but I wouldn't mind someone creating a Poll to get a sense of what people want. As I mentioned numerous times Romance is not the only thing that defines an RPG, but it is something that is very popular and will increase the fan base. So I'm not trying to connect anything. I am merely stating the facts which are you will increase the interest in the game if you have Romance as we know Romance is popular. By increasing interest in the game the corollary of this should be people actually buying the game, that is how Romance is linked to sales The only logical counter argument to my point is if you don't believe that the majority of people like Romance or rather that including Romance wouldn't draw new people. But based on the success of BSN I would find this rebuttal hard to believe as the facts speak for themselves? Romance drew in a lot of fans on BSN but how many fans did it drive away? It's easy to know how many you got, almost impossible to know how many you lost since genuine losses don't bother posting on the forums they just go elsewhere. A valid point but I would argue that including optional Romance in PE won't stop anyone actually buying PE but they may spend less time on the Obsidian forums due to the nature of the debate. I can live with that as it shouldn't impact the revenue stream as people would still purchase PE. To be honest I would be a little surprised and disappointed if people did start boycotting the Obsidian forums due to an increased level of discussions around Romance as surly there would be dozens of other debates outside of Romance that people could start or partake in?

I just don't believe romances are the key to this. I would seriously doubt you would see a massive sales drop off in a bioware game where romance wasn't included. All your are doing is trying to connect sales to romance based on your desire to see romance in the game. I believe that most people would prefer Romance over MP, but I wouldn't mind someone creating a Poll to get a sense of what people want. As I mentioned numerous times Romance is not the only thing that defines an RPG, but it is something that is very popular and will increase the fan base. So I'm not trying to connect anything. I am merely stating the facts which are you will increase the interest in the game if you have Romance as we know Romance is popular. By increasing interest in the game the corollary of this should be people actually buying the game, that is how Romance is linked to sales The only logical counter argument to my point is if you don't believe that the majority of people like Romance or rather that including Romance wouldn't draw new people. But based on the success of BSN I would find this rebuttal hard to believe as the facts speak for themselves?

As an armchair designer, I actually don't agree with this. If you get some level of consequence for doing that content, I don't think that that's a bad thing at all. Though I tend to frown heavily upon power gaming for the sake of power gaming. If it makes sense to get a buff (or penalty), then give one. If you want to avoid content, I think it's up to the player to avoid said content from an RP perspective. If the content in question denies some level of reward, oh well. It's a very popular feature with many people that are fans of RPGs, particularly ones like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate 2. The reaction to romances was probably the biggest surprise of BG2. They were ridiculously well received. Despite not being a fan of them personally, I disagree with the implication that their popularity is constrained to something like the BioWare Social Network (hence why the topic continually gets brought up in pretty much every RPG developer's forum). I doubt that MP for Project Eternity would see the benefits that you are putting forth, unless they changed the scope of the game. FO:NV, however, is also a part of a franchise by which the predecessor sold mountains of copies. I think you may have confounding circumstances with your correlation. I can't say for certain whether or not romances would or would not make any difference in sales. I suspect, for a great many, that they may be getting a game akin to an Infinity Engine game likely motivates a lot because they are starved for that type of a game. But I would say, for a game like this, I would expect romances to resonate more strongly than multiplayer. Very well said, I have to be honest I appreciate it when someone of your credibility and insight weighs on in on a topic as you make a lot of sense. I particularly like it when you make the same point I am making in your own words and from your own perspective I have said this many times before and I'll say it again. People must stop seeing BSN as the great enemy and assume that any topic or issue that is important there automatically means it irrelevant to PE and its future or rather increasing the PE fan base I have a simple objective or PE and Obsidian. I want PE to have the support of the various Bioware games like DA and ME and of course the BSN. I want thousands of people to logon to these forums and discuss the nuances of the game and give there opinions. I want these same people to financially support Obsidian like they do in with Bioware. I know people on these forums think that some of the discussions and debates on BSN are "weird" and "depraved". But if a group of people want to discuss how the sweat of a Qunari would taste then let them, you don't need to comment. Create a debate that you feel is applicable. I know from the Off Topic section on these forums that there are some topics I think are silly or I don't care about and you know what that's okay. I don't give my opinion on these but I respect the right of people to debate these topics In summary Romance is a popular RPG choice for many gamers and lets try to stop seeing how Bioware includes Romance as a bad thing for Obsidian. Because the more important point should be that Romance should be seen as another mechanism to increase support for PE. Of course its not the most important or only thing but it is relevant

Look carefully: there is a cartoon of a very non-Obsidian house diktat female in boob-plate. She is talking to an NPC with a broken heart over his head. This is clearly the crumb of hope the promancers have been waiting for. You may now wet yourselves. Yeah I noticed that and this make me cautiously optimistic about the implementation of Romance in PE

I'm not a huge fan of romances because, in general, I don't find them very well done nor something I find particularly interesting. I won't deny that many people really, really enjoy them, however. I hear you and even if you have personal preference that Romance is not your cup of tea I would hope that people can see what you are saying. By including Romance you will appeal to a huge group of people that potentially may not be as interested in PE if the game has no Romance. This is a good thing as this means increased revenue and general support for the PE franchise going forward. It stupefies me that people who are really committed to the success of PE can't see this as good thing

Excellent and informative update. Nice one I consider your party members to be an integral part of the overall RPG experience. In fact when I think back to certain RPG I played years ago I may not remember all the quests and lore but I seem to distinctly remember my party members and there own reasons for joining me on my epic journey It may be too early to ask this question but I'll ask anyway Do we know if there will be Romance in PE?

I watched the new Superman movie last night, I thought it was good but you notice I didn't say excellent. My friends all rated it much higher than I did. Anyway we watched it in 3D and the special effects were amazing as usual in a move of this calibre. 68/100 is my score

Keyrock you seem to be a veteran of gaming, do you ever go to forums or watch video's to see how to beat bosses if you have been beaten a few times? In other words do you get advice on the strategy around how to win a certain battle

You can't call me a fool, that's against the Forum rules !!! Moderators, oh Moderaaaaaaaaators. Someone needs a warning !! I'm just joking Malc, you know I love you right ?

Then if that is what it looked like, then I apologise. No need to apologize, you have actually experience in creating Romance. For me that carries credibility in this debate as opposed to people like me and others who argue more from preference and what they like in an RPG but have no idea how complicated it is to implement Romance Also don't worry about Monte. I like him but he is notorious for insulting people and speaking his mind irrespective if he offends people. He has thick skin An idiotic forum that you feel compelled to keep commenting on, what does that make you? An idiotic hypocrite?...I'm just saying

no it isn't, but it doesn't take every ounce of a writer's sweat, blood and tears either - see the above post. And if you have a team of writers.... A team of writers who may not all be writing characters. Again I'm not trying to make writing the romances more or less difficult than they are; honestly I'm not even sure it is the right discussion to have at this point anyhow. What makes you think that the majority of the 73k people don't want Romance. You have to gather statistics somewhere and the official forums are as good as place as any to get opinions of Romance, plus we know from the likes of BSN that Romance is a popular option in RPG so I don't think we need to ask the question " what makes you think people want Romance" when the evidence from the gaming community is clear. The sooner you accept some sort of Romance is a popular choice for gamers the happier person you will be Gfted1, you can't fight the inevitable storm. Don't be the reed in the path of the hurricane "the inevitable storm"? Look I'm all for romances but they've got to fit the design, NPCs and story. Not every game should have them as not every game is going to make sense with them. Yes I know Allow me some artistic license in this debate

What makes you think that the majority of the 73k people don't want Romance. You have to gather statistics somewhere and the official forums are as good as place as any to get opinions of Romance, plus we know from the likes of BSN that Romance is a popular option in RPG so I don't think we need to ask the question " what makes you think people want Romance" when the evidence from the gaming community is clear. The sooner you accept some sort of Romance is a popular choice for gamers the happier person you will be Gfted1, you can't fight the inevitable storm. Don't be the reed in the path of the hurricane I don't give a rats ass about in game romances but if it makes you feel you are "winning" by have less than one percent of backers in agreement with you, more power to you. It actually does make me feel better, I appreciate the sentiment I'm off to watch the new Superman movie now, so I can continue this chat when I get back

What makes you think that the majority of the 73k people don't want Romance. You have to gather statistics somewhere and the official forums are as good as place as any to get opinions of Romance, plus we know from the likes of BSN that Romance is a popular option in RPG so I don't think we need to ask the question " what makes you think people want Romance" when the evidence from the gaming community is clear. The sooner you accept some sort of Romance is a popular choice for gamers the happier person you will be Gfted1, you can't fight the inevitable storm. Don't be the reed in the path of the hurricane

Would you support a cat familiar that can talk and assist in battles. This feline could also carry some of your equipment

Was this from your years of fighting in the 'Nam as a Tunnel Rat? I suppose old habits die hard...

Yeah sure Bruce that's exactly it.... Or maybe it has more to do with the fact I don't want limited resources spent on 4-8 romances(2 straight male, 2 gay male, 2 straight female, 2 gay female). And before someone chimes in with you aren't asking for that, you are. The point of me constantly emphasizing Set straight male PC, was to show why those games can get away with no female romances and a lack of homosexual ones. The minute you start allowing the player to create the PC, gender and sexuality change the requirements. If only male players get two romance, females are going to rightly ask why they are being excluded, if only heterosexual players characters get romances, homosexual players are going to rightly asking why they are being excluded. It's a resource drain. I will put it this way, I dislike the idea of any romance in P:E. No need to make an emoticon expressing frustration, your objection to Romance wasn't clear so my question was valid The simple answer is you are opposed to any Romance in PE as you feel its a waste of resources. Simple response and easy to understand, of course I dispute that but I respect your opinion

Oh, look, you just invented Dragon Age 2.Anyway, let's, once again, hear a bit of... You've stated in the past that you don't like romances in games—at least to the extent that they've been done in games thus far. Were you to implement a romance subplot in Project Eternity, what would it involve? Not a big fan of romances. I did four in Alpha Protocol because Chris Parker, our project director, demanded it because he thinks romance apparently is easy, or MAYBE it’s because he wanted to be an **** and give me tons of them to do because I LOVE them so much (although to be honest, I think he felt it was more in keeping with the spy genre to have so many romances, even if I did ask to downscope them). At least I got to do the “hatemance” version of most of them, which makes it a little more palatable. So if I were to implement a romance subplot in Eternity - I wouldn’t. I’d examine interpersonal relationships from another angle and I wouldn’t confine it to love and romance... ...I generally despise writing companion romances (I think unrequited and/or doomed ones are ultimately more dramatic)... **** You have numbers, we have Chris. I hate writing westerns. So what? Yes he is the professional writer/designer, but he still has his own strengths and weaknesses, and, his own set of preferences. Do all Obsidian writers feel the same? Besides, who said the romances can't be doomed? Does every romance have to be 'Happily ever after?' As an aspiring writer, I agree with Chris that when things go wrong, it's much more satisfying to write about. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be romance, quite the reverse, a doomed romance or unrequited love could add to the story quite significantly. Yeah sure Bruce that's exactly it.... Or maybe it has more to do with the fact I don't want limited resources spent on 4-8 romances(2 straight male, 2 gay male, 2 straight female, 2 gay female). And before someone chimes in with you aren't asking for that, you are. The point of me constantly emphasizing Set straight male PC, was to show why those games can get away with no female romances and a lack of homosexual ones. The minute you start allowing the player to create the PC, gender and sexuality change the requirements. If only male players get two romance, females are going to rightly ask why they are being excluded, if only heterosexual players characters get romances, homosexual players are going to rightly asking why they are being excluded. It's a resource drain. I will put it this way, I dislike the idea of any romance in P:E. That's a fair enough point, though you probably should've clarified that before. You still moved the goalposts when offered a counter-argument, though, and besides, there's the standby of four conviniently bisexual characters. As mentioned by CrazyPea, in fact... Oh, look, you just invented Dragon Age 2. "DA2 did it" is not a counter-argument. But that said... Okay, I know when I'm beat. While I guess you could stick me in the fringes of the promancer camp, I won't bitch and whine if it doesn't happen because the guys at Obsidian didn't think it was worth their time. And... yeah, it is looking like that'll be the case. Better for Chris, et al, to stick to their artistic vision then listen to us whiners. If someone else on the writing team thinks otherwise and feels like writnig a romance for some companions would be a good use of their time and creative energies, and they do it well enough to stay up to Obsidian standards, awesome. But if not, life goes on, and let the modders go wild. (God help us all.) Guys that quote from Chris is old and not relevant. As CrazyPea mentioned that's just his preference and doesn't mean there won't be Romance in PE. Until I see an official statement from Obsidian that says "there will be no Romances in PE" I'll continue to fight and champion there implementation in PE @ KillerClowns The fight ain't over by a long shot so don't give up

Anyone else feel like a stick insect who has just had the life and works of Albert Einstein explained to him? Yip

"most didn't have cats "

http://store.steampowered.com/app/237550 Guys for those into older RPG I see the remake of Realms of Arkania is due to be released in a week. I never played the original but this game interests me as people often say its a "RPG Classic"

Okay that video cracked me up Definitely that gets the BruceVC "funniest video of the week" award

Same as me, I enjoyed both games tremendously but F:NV offered the better overall RPG experience and entertainment. I'll never forget the excitement when my character finally reached New Vegas. It took me about 18 hours, I was wounded, almost out of ammo and being chased by Deathclaws and I had this vague idea that Vegas was ahead. It was night and I remember going over this hill and seeing the lights of New Vegas It was like finding an oasis in the desert when you have NO water left and you absolutely parched