BruceVC

Okay sorry, I didn't realize that.

Indira is a guy?

Hi Squeakymeister "waves" I like you and your perspective on most topics ( except when you don't agree with me on Romance ). I find you have a certain reasonableness to your opinion and you don't get emotional or rather you don't make personal attacks on people which are admirable qualities. I find most of my lady friends in RL have the same calmness to there opinions which helps to balance my more frenetic nature, that is why I wish there were more lady members active on these forums. I'm glad you noticed that as well

Are you trolling KP? I'm not going to get into a debate if you are trolling?

So you're okay with the state tossing people into jail for hurting people's feelings ? To be honest I don't think anyone has actually been jailed in South Africa for offensive comments but people have definitely been fired. We do take it seriously but funny enough the UK has prosecuted more people with real jail time. I think the consideration around jail time depends on what you say?

No, no, no that's completely wrong. I believe in freedom absolutely but not if that freedom means it offends or hurts someone else

No Bruce I understand the issue and simply disagree with your shortsighted ill thought out view, as Monte Carlo suggests the onus lies on the administrators to deal with disruptive elements, not trying to mask the problem through discrimination and apartheid. Those are short term goals that will exacerbate the problem, not help in any way, shape or form. This is so simple a child could grasp it. Furthermore women being accorded a special status to "shield" them will not help the integration of male and female gamers, it will just fuel division. Inequality is wrong, everybody should be treated equally if they have made the same contribution. Okay, well my advice is contact the Star Citizen developers and tell them you disagree with how they are addressing the complaints and issues of female gamers. I support and understand why they are doing it so there is no outrage from my side.

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK justice department? Let me know what they say I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter. Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently? The government had nothing to do with Donald Sterling. The NBA policed the matter on their own. First Amendment only protects individuals from government prosecution for voicing opinions/beliefs. The NBA is not the government. US laws protect your right to free speech, but doesn't protect you from acting like a moron and not suffer the consequences from your community or employer should you be in violation of company rules. Any quibbles about such alleged violations can be settled in court. Okay so in the USA you don't prosecute for words. That's fine I understand that. Many Western countries can and do charge people for derogatory and offensive comments. The point being I support these types of legal prosecutions

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK justice department? Let me know what they say I would absolutely hate to live in such a country. We have the NSA mining our every communication but sure as hell the Feds won't come knocking whenever I quote hardcore gangsta rap (without due citation) on Twitter. Wow its funny you think that in the USA you can just say what you want with no consequences. What happened to Donald Stirling recently?

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK justice department? Let me know what they say

And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem. No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional. Then men should have their own space also, this is simple equality Bruce, if they have paid an equal amount of money then they should be treated exactly the same in all matters. To do otherwise is inequality, something that should never be tolerated. No Nonek, once again you don't understand the issue The reason why these females want there own groups is they feel genuinely harassed by male gamers. As has been explained through numerous examples this is a real problem for many female gamers. This is not a subjective debate Are you suggesting there are groups of male gamers who feel harassed by female gamers. Do you think you can find 10 male gamers that will tell you how they were discriminated against by lady gamers and they were victims of unacceptable sexual innuendo ? If so then yes...those male gamers should have there own groups But we both know the issue of sexism doesn't exist for your average male gamer so the same considerations don't need to apply

Amentep I consider you an intelligent and reasonable person. Did you read that link that Aluminium posted? You should find it very interesting

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere " And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem. No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional.

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage. Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find the right way to implement Romance in DA:I That was a quick change on opinion Bruce The point you miss (and feminism does in general) is that Twilight romance was so effective among teenage girls exactly because of this portrayal. The majority of women (especialy at these ages) actualy like to have a subservient role in their relationships. This isn't only in Twilight. Read True Blood or any other similar book. Most of the time the males are dominant in most aspects of the relationship. Or read paranormal romence or harlequin for adults. Same issue here. The males are always the dominating, badboy-playboy type that somehow is captured by the female protagonist. And then? He is loyal alright, but he is overprotective, he alwaystreats thae woman like a precious bubble and the woman is there just to support and love him(and to be resqued). In all of these cases is unintentional and not pushing a specific agenta. And yet they are always written for women and the target audience is women. How does this fits in your woldview Bruce? A friend of mine is married with an author of such books. One time she asked him if the man's reaction in one of her novels was realistic. (and believe me, if you wanted to search for sexist undertones in that particular scene, you would go crazy Bruce) And my friend laughed and said this wasn't how a man would react, this was how a woman wants a man to react. Food for thought. No I never said Twilight was a paradigm of gender equality. I said the Romance options appealed to a wide range of fans and the movies must have some value to have such support. But after reading that link the image Twilight projects is diametrically opposed to most of my views around the role of women in society so Twilights value has gone down dramatically in my books Also I doubt any educated young women raised in a home where gender equality is practised would chose to be willingly in a relationship where she has no identity and is subservient to a man. I'm not saying that doesn't exist but its something that is fundamentally wrong in many aspects of our society

They do and this is discussed in aluminiumtrioxid link.

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere "

But that's unpatriotic, you need to support German software developers. Isnt Piranha Bytes German? Don't be a bad citizen Lexx....support your country

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage. Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find the right way to implement Romance in DA:I

I do sometimes get the odd funny comment right hey Barti

Yes Monte it is. You need to prove to me you are right, please don't be lazy. You have loads of time to comment on how much you dislike Romance but you can't spend 5 minutes researching perceptions around Twilight. This tells me you lack commitment around your perspective I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. I do respect both of your opinions immensely on almost most issues of social justice. Thanks for the links, I'll read them and get back to you

Barti you should try to play the Hitman series with the non-lethal strategy. That takes real skill, if you can get through the game without killing anyone then "you are da man "

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

You see your post highlights the issue I have with peoples opinions around Twilight. Its basically completely dismissive and condescending around something that millions of people really enjoy and identify with And that's the first time I have ever heard that Twilight somehow encourages acceptance of abusive relationships. You obviously are joking

oh thats clever....well played