BruceVC

Don't be a hater Keyrock, don't be a hater

The only game full developed by Bioware as part of EA is Dragon Age 2, everything else was already in various states of completion, although you could argue EA interfered. Or that Bioware mis-marketed their ending of ME3 (which is a totally awesome game and you should play). The choices you make during the three games are the ones that count, the final decision in game was horrendously handled and we were told this is what we've spent however many hours building up to.. How many people ****-canned Deus Ex (the first one) because of it's RGB ending? Unless you want a Fallout-style ending with splash screen after splash screen with every minute detail addressed in a weird disjointed monologue? I expect huge things from DA3, and I think that EA have realised that Bioware need to be able to do their own thing considering the backlash from DA2 and SWTOR (different part of Bioware, but whatever). If EA let Bioware do their thing and do it well they have a real chance at grabbing this part of the market. It makes sense to let Bioware have a long leash for DA3 but also for ME4 and whatever future projects they have. I love how people still want to believe in BW, and how EA must be the reason that they been having such a poor job. EA gave them 200 million dollars to do TOR which was a complete and utter failure, I'm pretty certain that BW has done their share of **** ups with their projects that had nothing to do with EA. I doubt a publisher would trust a developer with that kind of money and feel the need to babysit them. BW went through a staff change where all the talent sort moved away and someone less apt where left in charge ( I'm looking at you Casey Hudson) Plus, I doubt that EA is the one forcing them to write those cringy quotes for their characters, that's all BW baby. I'm not saying that the two doctors weren't going the way of George Lucas because I think it's quite clear they were. Anyone who automatically thinks the only way to create an MMO is to make a WoW clone has completely lost whatever innovative spark they might once had in the beginning of their career. All the same, I've been gaming much too long and have experienced first hand the obliteration of one talented development company after another thanks to being absorbed into EA over the years to not keep EA firmly in my cross hairs whenever it's involved in any way at any time. It's an apathetic corporation that only cares about making the quarterly money for stockholders and couldn't give a rip what the fans who buy their games actually want. Sure they may have given Bioware more leeway than usual and I think I can vaguely recall one of the doctors admitting that EA gave them just enough rope to hang themselves with, which they did. Also, if memory serves, around the time of the ME3 debacle, I read that Casey Hudson and one other dude literally locked themselves in their office and shut out everyone else who was usually involved in development of ME3 so they could deliver the fixed ending that created such an internet uproar. Sounds to me like someone was offered a hefty bonus to get the game out at a certain time so a certain corporation could make it's quarterly statement. Anyway, it's really no coincidence that whenever EA gets involved, mediocrity follows. Nah, you being overly negative and jaded. There are loads of excellent games from EA like Alice: Madness Returns

I just finished Legends of Grimrock, excellent game. The combat is great fun and I enjoyed some of the puzzles. I did get stumped on some parts of the game and had to use walkthroughs I clocked about 40 hours on Steam playing this game so it was a worthwhile investment

You cheeky..you know that But you are correct, I meant to say biased But please understand I don't make the rules..I merely adhere to them In a court where only Stun or I could be right and the decision was based on fact you cant possibly see yourself as objective towards Isabella? Its clear you are biased...sorry

No offense Nonek but you have never liked Isabella, your opinion is therefore egregiously bias and we have to treat you as hostile witness..sorry, nothing personal

Oh, is that so? In that case, what's the point of asking for Romances in PoE? Can't you promancers just imagine they exist and spare us the multi-thread whining? I knew you were going to ask that, but you must remember something important. I did say I need a foundation to build my RP experience so for me this Romance discussion is about raising the importance of Romance and also generating awareness so hopefully Obsidian includes them in PoE 2

There is no development of the romance. There's just a single 'sex' scene that is completely independent of everything, save for a single dialogue that triggers it. And having sex with her has exactly ZERO effect on anything that happens afterwards. In your head? You get the exact same "Apology accepted!" dialogue and continuance of the friendship whether you're romancing her or not. What "courting" are you talking about, exactly? That's kinda my point, bruce. And the point of several other posters' arguments that you have dismissed away as 'unconvincing'. A well written NPC friendship is indistinguishable from a Romance, save for the absence of all the pretentious juvenile crap that a video game romance must have, like cartoon kissing and pixel sex so the horny teen fanbase can get their hard-ons, which the marketing department pie charts suggest is an effective way to boost game sales. No offense Stun but it seems that the difference between you and me is you lack imagination during a RPG. My RP experience is not defined by a few lines of text or only what the games presents to me. When I explore a tomb, fight a dragon or Romance someone in the game my idea of what is happening is not just what I see in the game, its what I RP..its what I imagine..yes in my head, So for example when Isabella betrayed me you saw the game offering the same "apology accepted". I saw this totally differently, in my head, and Isabella became more committed to our relationship. Of course I need a foundation, in other words if there are no Romance options or party interaction I can't create one In BG2 when you travel to the Drow city your experience about the city is limited around what you see , like the Aboleth that is imprisoned. But for me I was imagining many other things that did exist in the city. They weren't actually there in the game but I could still RP the experience. The same principle applies to Romance and exploring a Romance arc. End of the day you are over analysing what the game doesn't offer, there is much more to an RPG than just what you can see and what the developers can present.

No not at all, it was the development of the Romance I enjoyed which is part of my overall RP experience. So for example even though she betrayed me with the Desire Demon I forgave her and continued to court her You say that there was no difference between being her friend or trying to Romance her with dialogue options, I wasn't aware of that because most of my conversations with her were with the intention of developing Romance. Now lets say you are right about the dialog making no difference that would still be irrelevant to me because my RP experience was always about the fact the conversations were about Romance ( well not all of them but the more personals ones where she asked me to do her favours )

You act as if this is a matter of opinion. It isn't. Isabela's story is NOT part of the romance. Period. It happens exactly the same way (same dialogue choices and everything) regardless of whether your Hawke is romancing her. So unless you see those fade-to-black, underwear-humping scenes as a major reason why you like Romances, you cannot logically claim that you wouldn't have enjoyed an Isabela friendship just as much as an Isabela romance, Since those silly scenes are the ONLY difference between the two. And this is PROOF of what people have been telling you in all these romance threads and what you've always brushed off as "unconvincing": Romances rarely ever add the character depth to NPCs that you think they do. Therefore, whether they're worth the added development costs and game integrity risks becomes the most important question. I'm not explaining my point properly, I'll try again You said initially that the stories and characters in DA2 were badly written and it was rushed job. So firstly I reject that, I enjoyed the narrative and the various characters. The things I didn't like were the reused dungeons...but the narrative was fine Now around Isabella I was highlighting the fact that her story was one of the reasons I Romanced her. I enjoyed her story. In every RPG I play I also imagine the adventures and journeys of my party. I RP there trials and Romance is part of that. So because that is how I play an RPG the story of the various characters directly adds to the depth of the overall experience and for me Romance is part of the experience I expect Its irrelevant if you followed her story but didn't Romance her, that's not the point I'm making So there is no proof of anything, I am still unconvinced that leaving out Romance in the case of Isabella would have made the interaction with her as memorable. Because the Romance arc was part of the overall gaming experience I hope this clears this up

So for me the persons story and Romance are inextricably linked and relevant. I only Romance people that I can identify with and that's persons story is part of the identification process So once again this may not be relevant to you but the fact that Isabella had an interesting story was a factor in my Romance endeavors with her. And as for Promancers not being picky, maybe. I don't have any complaints about any of the Romance arcs I was in involved in through the various RPG I have played like ME, BG2 or DA. So you may be right, promancers are easy to please...or we could just be less critical?

Lets not give DA2 that much credit. Its "Everyone goes both ways!" thing was not for silliness sake, It wasn't for fantasy's sake either, and the devs weren't trying to be 'socially progressive', or whatever. It was for cost-cutting sake and nothing more. They couldn't afford to write up distinct Gay backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes, Straight backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes, and Bi Backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes for all 4 romanceable NPCs so they just made everyone Bi without any explanation or any deviation (except for maybe Isabela. They managed to scrounge up an explanation for her sexuality). <gag> It was lazy and cheap, like everything else in DA2. But that's just one of the million problems with romances in Video games. They're a huge, expensive undertaking. And unless you're very thorough (which isn't cheap), you risk alienating/offending whole swaths of the fanbase. You make some good points as usual yet I'll raise this again. It seems the people that were most critical of the Romance implementation in DA2 were people who don't like Romance anyway For example I was fine with the Romance in DA2, I dated the beautiful Isabella and I thought her story and motive were interesting and made perfect sense

I care. Don't be sad Hiro, I post regularly. Isn't that almost the same as Chris posting,....its very similar right?

Ahh, I don't think so. Religion can sway individuals to extreme acts and it can inculcate the young and impressionable. To say it's simply a tool of politicians is a gross simplification. And to cite ye old peaceful times when christians and muslims lived together is lunacy. There will be no peace between Christians and Muslims, ever. It's in the books. I agree in the sense that the core root of the problem between the Israelis and Palestinians is a religious difference and the fact people on both sides feel they have a religious given right to certain areas that are historically significant. But they only believe they are significance because of religious doctrine

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this? It's a joke...Cassandra is too masculine...some even give her moustache...and she bash castle gate in DA:I demo... oh the jaw.... Okay I see your point

I never understood people that played games for their story, to be honest. If I want a good story I read a book. I play games for their gameplay. that's all there is to it. I skip dialogue in all RPGs as for the post directly above mine, not going to argue with you. no point, you're apologetic of and I'm heavily opposed to this game. we'll not see eye to eye. I find your arguments laughable, so what? you like it, fine, I'm glad for you. it's just bizarre, from my standpoint. Sorry Sorophx but now I also don't believe you, how can you say you don't care about the story in a RPG? That's the foundation of the game and is huge factor, if not the most important thing, in a RPG as the narrative is the base for your decisions that determine your RPG journey. Without a compelling story what would be the point of an RPG? I don't think you quite understand what you are saying or we are misunderstanding your criticism

But Volo for the record if I pay someone a compliment I mean it, yes of course sometimes I am joking or being sarcastic but then its obvious. And I understand sometimes my posts may not make sense or it may seem like I'm trolling but I'm not and I can always explain what I mean

Interracial? Still a problem for whiteys (and others, this is a two-way street,) in 'murrica. And other countries, too. But the chances of the PC stumbling across a veritable menagerie of bisexual/pansexuals like in DA2 is silly. Absurd. Mathematically it is exceptionally unlikely. Not quite astronomical as there are billions of stars in billions of galaxies with an unknown number of planets to them, but still. Silly. Agx were you that type of kid who went out his way to prove that there was no such thing as Father Xmas and then used science to show your fellow pre-schoolers that he couldn't possibly exist? Don't get me wrong I am huge supporter in the facts and intellectual debate but sometimes we like things to be silly or unlikely or just plain fantasy Lets not over-analyse everything ( its funny hearing me tell you this because I get told I do this in RL )

Yeah, they use dice rolls, not some random determinance. Gyah! Bruce, will you help me start a petition to get Volourn's avatar officially changed to a photo of Grumpy Cat? Don't tell him he looks nice today, or he'll think you mean he doesn't look nice on other days. Lephys its an interesting dynamic when you look at the Volo type personality. He has spent so much time on the Internet being defensive, trolling or debating with people who aren't sincere he is unable to determine when someone pays him a compliment. This is normally a result of someone who has been in far too many bitter Internet arguments and you start thinking that there is no such thing as normal friendly banter. Everything has an ulterior motive and most people are out to undermine you.

Dude seriously...insulting you? I just paid you a compliment...no need to thank me

Volo I'm going to be honest when I say that's one of the most accurate and insightful posts you've ever made

No offense but that's almost impossible for someone of your intelligence, you would be insulting your gamers insight if you really can't remember one character

She was my absolute favourite I loved her and supported her in everything she wanted..but I'm not sure if she betrayed me? And I did LOVE using her Meteor Storm to obliterate all enemies..."the sacred flames swept them away "

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this? There was a rumor that said that one member of the cast was trans, I thought that was going to be a sign that Maevaris was going to be in DA:I. That is interesting, I wonder if anyone can provide some proof of this?

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this?

Don't mean to offend anyone but when I look at these interminable conflicts like what is going on between the Israelis and the Palestinians I'm so glad I'm an agnostic. End of the day for the more dogmatic people on both sides of this conflict this is about some area in the desert and some old buildings that both groups feel they have a historical and religious right to. And its very difficult to convince zealots that compromise is the way forward, they don't believe in compromise. So how do you ever really resolve any problem with this type of intransigence ?