BruceVC

So for me the persons story and Romance are inextricably linked and relevant. I only Romance people that I can identify with and that's persons story is part of the identification process So once again this may not be relevant to you but the fact that Isabella had an interesting story was a factor in my Romance endeavors with her. And as for Promancers not being picky, maybe. I don't have any complaints about any of the Romance arcs I was in involved in through the various RPG I have played like ME, BG2 or DA. So you may be right, promancers are easy to please...or we could just be less critical?

Lets not give DA2 that much credit. Its "Everyone goes both ways!" thing was not for silliness sake, It wasn't for fantasy's sake either, and the devs weren't trying to be 'socially progressive', or whatever. It was for cost-cutting sake and nothing more. They couldn't afford to write up distinct Gay backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes, Straight backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes, and Bi Backgrounds, personalities, flirts and cutscenes for all 4 romanceable NPCs so they just made everyone Bi without any explanation or any deviation (except for maybe Isabela. They managed to scrounge up an explanation for her sexuality). <gag> It was lazy and cheap, like everything else in DA2. But that's just one of the million problems with romances in Video games. They're a huge, expensive undertaking. And unless you're very thorough (which isn't cheap), you risk alienating/offending whole swaths of the fanbase. You make some good points as usual yet I'll raise this again. It seems the people that were most critical of the Romance implementation in DA2 were people who don't like Romance anyway For example I was fine with the Romance in DA2, I dated the beautiful Isabella and I thought her story and motive were interesting and made perfect sense

I care. Don't be sad Hiro, I post regularly. Isn't that almost the same as Chris posting,....its very similar right?

Ahh, I don't think so. Religion can sway individuals to extreme acts and it can inculcate the young and impressionable. To say it's simply a tool of politicians is a gross simplification. And to cite ye old peaceful times when christians and muslims lived together is lunacy. There will be no peace between Christians and Muslims, ever. It's in the books. I agree in the sense that the core root of the problem between the Israelis and Palestinians is a religious difference and the fact people on both sides feel they have a religious given right to certain areas that are historically significant. But they only believe they are significance because of religious doctrine

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this? It's a joke...Cassandra is too masculine...some even give her moustache...and she bash castle gate in DA:I demo... oh the jaw.... Okay I see your point

I never understood people that played games for their story, to be honest. If I want a good story I read a book. I play games for their gameplay. that's all there is to it. I skip dialogue in all RPGs as for the post directly above mine, not going to argue with you. no point, you're apologetic of and I'm heavily opposed to this game. we'll not see eye to eye. I find your arguments laughable, so what? you like it, fine, I'm glad for you. it's just bizarre, from my standpoint. Sorry Sorophx but now I also don't believe you, how can you say you don't care about the story in a RPG? That's the foundation of the game and is huge factor, if not the most important thing, in a RPG as the narrative is the base for your decisions that determine your RPG journey. Without a compelling story what would be the point of an RPG? I don't think you quite understand what you are saying or we are misunderstanding your criticism

But Volo for the record if I pay someone a compliment I mean it, yes of course sometimes I am joking or being sarcastic but then its obvious. And I understand sometimes my posts may not make sense or it may seem like I'm trolling but I'm not and I can always explain what I mean

Interracial? Still a problem for whiteys (and others, this is a two-way street,) in 'murrica. And other countries, too. But the chances of the PC stumbling across a veritable menagerie of bisexual/pansexuals like in DA2 is silly. Absurd. Mathematically it is exceptionally unlikely. Not quite astronomical as there are billions of stars in billions of galaxies with an unknown number of planets to them, but still. Silly. Agx were you that type of kid who went out his way to prove that there was no such thing as Father Xmas and then used science to show your fellow pre-schoolers that he couldn't possibly exist? Don't get me wrong I am huge supporter in the facts and intellectual debate but sometimes we like things to be silly or unlikely or just plain fantasy Lets not over-analyse everything ( its funny hearing me tell you this because I get told I do this in RL )

Yeah, they use dice rolls, not some random determinance. Gyah! Bruce, will you help me start a petition to get Volourn's avatar officially changed to a photo of Grumpy Cat? Don't tell him he looks nice today, or he'll think you mean he doesn't look nice on other days. Lephys its an interesting dynamic when you look at the Volo type personality. He has spent so much time on the Internet being defensive, trolling or debating with people who aren't sincere he is unable to determine when someone pays him a compliment. This is normally a result of someone who has been in far too many bitter Internet arguments and you start thinking that there is no such thing as normal friendly banter. Everything has an ulterior motive and most people are out to undermine you.

Dude seriously...insulting you? I just paid you a compliment...no need to thank me

Volo I'm going to be honest when I say that's one of the most accurate and insightful posts you've ever made

No offense but that's almost impossible for someone of your intelligence, you would be insulting your gamers insight if you really can't remember one character

She was my absolute favourite I loved her and supported her in everything she wanted..but I'm not sure if she betrayed me? And I did LOVE using her Meteor Storm to obliterate all enemies..."the sacred flames swept them away "

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this? There was a rumor that said that one member of the cast was trans, I thought that was going to be a sign that Maevaris was going to be in DA:I. That is interesting, I wonder if anyone can provide some proof of this?

Like, a guy who was assigned female gender at birth, or...? No, no, no...he's the guy.... I think you are incorrect, can you provide some links that discuss this?

Don't mean to offend anyone but when I look at these interminable conflicts like what is going on between the Israelis and the Palestinians I'm so glad I'm an agnostic. End of the day for the more dogmatic people on both sides of this conflict this is about some area in the desert and some old buildings that both groups feel they have a historical and religious right to. And its very difficult to convince zealots that compromise is the way forward, they don't believe in compromise. So how do you ever really resolve any problem with this type of intransigence ?

That's a good post and you have raised some good points. I want to respond to this later in more detail but I have some work I need to do now

Well you admitted that no one has convinced you over the last 2 years. And there's been very good points and arguments raised for no romance in those 2 years. You also say it's 'unlikely' and will be a hard sell for anyone to convince you. Straight away you're already in defensive mode against those who would argue for no romance. I think it's important in any discussion to be honest with your fellow posters on one's stance on particular subjects. If you have someone who's dug their heels in for 2 years dismissing the points others have raised in that time, and now saying to posters it's unlikely you're going to convince me and you have to do a hard sell, then that shows your prejudice and bias. That's not exaggeration at all. Sorry Hiro but I obviously can't get you to understand my point anymore than I have explained. I am at a loss on how to proceed. I'll say this one more time, I am not bias or defensive. I am just not convinced by all the arguments that Romance shouldn't be part of an RPG Sadly no, but we can hope and still discuss Romance so hopefully they will be in PoE 2

Perhaps cutting the hyperbole Bruce and the discussion can flow a lot better and it wouldn't need to go off topic. And there's topics on this forum where hyperbole isn't used and discussions do flow better. You know that. And using it just because others do doesn't help your argument. So in other words, it would be next to impossible to convince you which comes back to your original statement. And now you admit no one on these boards over the last two years has convinced you otherwise. One minute you're agreeing with Lephys that you're exaggerating and now you're saying no one has convinced you over the last two years and it will be a tough sell for anyone to do so. It doesn't appear to be exaggeration or hyperbole after all with your statement, but rather truth. Don't get confused by someone who exaggerates a general point to someone who exaggerates a fact. They are totally different For example if I say " no one has convinced me " doesn't mean no one can convince me. This is not the same as me saying "all Romance is bad ". This is very subjective as end of the day this boils down to a personal preference around how you feel about Romance and there current implementation in RPG

Nope they speak Austrian?

No, I'm going to work shortly, I'm just having some fun

Not German? Not German? Wow my friend they say Americans are bad at geography but that's an egregious mistake even by those standards. Iceland isn't part of Germany, and neither is Austria

So you agree with Lephys that you were exaggerating. tsk tsk. Leaving aside games like IWD where your companions are generated by yourself. Lets talk about rpgs with companions that are already in the game. Do you stand by your position that no one on this board has convinced you of the validity of not having romances in rpgs, having given every possible reason why they feel romances shouldn't be in the game? Also, could anyone convince you with a valid reason you would accept that a rpg with companions already in the game would benefit without romances? Hyperbole is common on these forums, you know that Yes it may be possible, its just unlikely you will convince me that a game without Romance is better than a game with Romance But maybe I need to clarify something important. I am hugely supportive of party interaction and getting to know your party members and what motivates them And for me Romance is just a natural extension of this party interaction. So you would have to convince me that interacting with your party members in a RPG is a bad idea or bad game design before I will admit Romance is a bad concept. And that's going to be a very tough sale

Have you tried the IWD NPC-Mod? Limited in scope (only one possible party, with a couple of class options) - but includes romance (as well as character development for the rest of the party too) Sounds good But what about the fact the characters are all custom created, does the Mod add personalities to your party?

Good questions. I am very supportive of inclusivity in Romance options so there should be bisexual, straight and gay options if possible. And of course interracial relationships would be provided. But I don't think interracial Romance is even an issue anymore? But not very character can be Romanced by every person. Some need to be exclusive to a certain group. For example Viconia is the option for a straight male Romance