BruceVC

Well he is right, or are you going to peddle more of your bull**** ? Ah Malc, another one of my loyal fans on these forums...I dont know what I would do if you didn't believe and support me as much as you do. I would probably get depressed Should he be spitting on anyone? True, rational people don't conduct themselves like that but lets be honest. We are dealing with GG and anti-GG and there are elements in both those groups that probably consider spitting on people perfectly reasonable

Exactly, that was what I thought. I assumed Nonek was talking about the joke. Why can't others understand me like you TN ......

Well technically he isn't spitting on his consumers....he is spitting on GG supporters But Nonek his joke is very juvenile anyway and not really funny. So I'm surprised you are getting upset? Or rather let me ask you this...does this type of thing upset you ? Troll somebody else Bruce i'm tired of your hypocritical act. Geez Nonek.....you definitely got out of the wrong side of bed this morning

Well technically he isn't spitting on his consumers....he is spitting on GG supporters But Nonek his joke is very juvenile anyway and not really funny. So I'm surprised you are getting upset? Or rather let me ask you this...does this type of thing upset you ?

Happy Bday TN

To be honest, if they really had hired erotic dancers, I think that would really have been unacceptable. But following the links, and looking at the models, I don't think that's the case. Can't say about the Nvidia party - but yeah, if they hired erotic dancers, I could see that being a problem at a work related party. Why it would be problem? So everyone can look at erotic dancers except game developers? LOL Because it's a work related party. I don't care if the erotic dancers are male or female, so it's not an "objectifying women" thing, I just don't think throwing a party with strippers is a smart thing to do if it is work related. For one, it's obviously bad P.R., but even if you ignore that, it's hardly very inclusive. There's bound to be people working at the company who have no desire to be at a party where there's semi-naked people. Now, of course, there are exceptions: if the company in question is, say, Brazzers - then yes, it would be appropriate, but this is NVidia. Of course, you could say: well, don't go to the party then. In answer to that: sure, if you don't want to make promotion in the company, then sure, don't go to the party. So as you guys know I work in the corporate industry. I have been to functions, product launches and parties where there are women who dance on tables or on the stage. But to be clear they not strippers they are professional dancers but they wear revealing attire, I don't see anything wrong with this . But yes I imagine if there were real strippers that would be inappropriate for many people including women. Okay thanks for this link, now I understand I do think that women overacted a little by resigning but I suppose you have to consider how some people would react to scantily dressed women at a function..there does have to be level of professionalism?

50 Shades is subpar because if you ever try reading it, the editing is awful, the prose is as written by a 14 year old teenager, the bdsm is BAD bdsm, and the romance is much more of an abusive manipulation than actual romance. But for some reason a large portion of the female population have found that titillating and romantic. Then again, a chunk of the population found the stalkerish behaviour of Edward Cullen in Twilight romantic. "I'm over 100 and you're 17, I'll break into your room because I like to watch you sleep...." Have you ever asked yourself why so many women enjoy 50 shades? Do you think the women who enjoy that book can't determine for yourselves if its worthwhile? Because I can guarantee its not because the editing or prose or Romance that they like the idea and narrative Without being dismissive have you asked any of your lady friends why they like the book...and I know you do have a large circle of female friends so I imagine some of them would have read it ?

Because "women as background decoration" same as your video games. Is that really want you think? So exoctic dancers get paid to work at parties and functions, this is their livelihood What do you think they would think if you walked up to them and said something similar to " hey do you realize that by doing this job you are undermining feminist causes and not doing justice to gender equality "....they would think you were being patronizing and condescending and probably tell you to " f***k off " Now before I am accused of hypocrisy I have always maintained that unless you can offer those girls another job its makes sense to rather not judge them and utilize there services if required But this has nothing to do with the objectification of women in society...well I don't think it is the same thing. Its all about the girls doing what they doing willingly in order to earn revenue and pay the bills. But its a tough life and career choice so we should always respect them

And just to be clear why would exotic dancers be a problem at a work party, I'm not trying to be funny but I am missing why this is significant ?

Also I don't think we need to lower our standard of communication because people battle to read and comprehend a few paragraphs. I like reading long posts if they are relevant to the discussion ..and I'm not that clever. So if I can focus on a relatively long post I'm sure others can handle it

I wouldn't say that but both books\movies do resonate with millions of people Twilight is more a teenager attraction but 50 Shades really did well with women of all ages for a number of reasons So no need for literature elitism...just because you have disdain for something it doesn't mean its subpar

If anything, DA3 made it pretty clear that Bioware was still in the drivers seat. They took all the criticisms of DA2 and made massive changes to try and fix the IP. You can argue that they simply went in another bad direction, but they definitely were given the rope to overhaul the game. I have to raise this, so many people on these forums seems to think DA:I was a bad game. Yet the sales numbers don't reflect this and from revenue perspective the game did really well Which begs the question, " is the game really that bad or are you guys just overly jaded and critical of anything from Bioware" ? Food for thought perhaps

http://www.gamereactor.eu/news/293644/Pillars+of+Eternity%3A+critical+path+only+"a+third+or+quarter"+of+game/ Thats cool, I love the idea of huge parts of the gameworld you can explore that aren't necessarily related to the main quest

But there is a difference, the Free Syrian Army is not a fundamentalist movement like ISIS And Assad is a dictatorial leader who refused to allow meaningful political changes to his leadership. So of course the West supports groups opposed to him but only if they represent a moderate ideological view Its not hard to understand

It was the easiest way to sum up the whole GG/anti-GG thing in as derisive a way as possible. I suppose "videogames are serious business" would have also sufficed. But you cannot tell me with a straight face that MSNBC, ABC, the BBC and various other mainstream media news outlets which are SUPPOSED to hire the best of the best in the industry can report and provide highly slanted accounts of GamerGate that are poorly researched, and that there's no problem there. This implies that either A.) Those big time journalists are actually incredibly lazy and slacking off, and made little to no effort to understand the issue beyond copy-pasting articles pre-written for them, or B.) They knew damned well what the full story looked like, but had no interest in publicizing the full story, instead preferring to provide coverage to the most emotionally-charged and hysteria-ridden narrative on the topic at hand. Either way, this is an issue. If those are supposed to be the experts in journalism and reporting, then we have a serious problem. Today it's Bayonetta getting a sub-par review score, tomorrow it's blatant lies about Russian actions within the Ukraine, or indirect encouragement to address issues of Muslim immigration in european countries in the most violent, sensationalist manner imagineable. This is a interesting point and one of the few that is linked to the sustainability of GG that genuinely concerns me, I watched on CNN International on the Kristie Lu Stout show the GG discussion. It was probably only 90 seconds long but it was very uninformed, critical and really surprised me that they made no effort to at least get the GG perspective Now a person may think " well this represents the overall quality of news from CNN International " but I don't think so. I think this was just a bad bit of journalism. So if all the news was this bad I would be very worried because basically we would be getting constant misinformation. But normal CNN stories have multiple guests and proper interviews. So lets not " throw the baby out with the bath water " as far as International news channels are concerned. Media housed like CNN and Sky do still provide us with credible and relevant updates on globak events Would sound a lot more inspiring and believable if it would be talked about not only by random internet people, but my actual-flesh-and-blood real-life friends and acquaintances, who largely haven't even heard about the whole thing, much less care about it in any way, shape or form. You might be overestimating the impact it has, mate. I'm not saying it's already large enough to accomplish what I've said I want accomplished. I'm saying it's showing a respectable resilience that leads me to believe it may someday reach that point. After all, the moment Polygon and Kotaku and the like are essentially sinking, there's gonna be a lot of people who spent months playing watchdog for games journalists and saw mainstream journalists exhibiting the same problems. I see no reason why those people would not attempt to play watchdog there next. Yes, laziness is a factor, but in my opinion laziness is usually what kills most movements, and it seems non-existent to gamergate in the face of how outraged a lot of it's supporters are. I believe if laziness were a threat to that, it would've already stopped Gamergate. I disagree, the movement has slowed down/stabilized; the factor that I think contributes most to its longevity is probably the same that led to the rise of SJWs in the Internet: people are doing what they usually did before but now for a cause. A lot of them are just going to chans, tweeting, sending e-mails, things they probably did before gamergate anyways and the few that contribute in research have prior experience doing it so they probably the same. Well done young grasshopper I see you learning how you can truly make GG sustainable. You need to see it as a cause, a campaign that you really believe in and something that you support outside of forums and Internet debate This is exactly what most SJW do, I don't just discuss gender equality ( and other SJ ideals )on these forums. Its part of my mindset and what I really believe is the right direction society needs to go. That is also why SJW have the support of media houses and other mediums, we raise real issues that resonate with people. Thats the secret to GG evolving to something really tangible and mainstream

And considering our starting point of "We are living in a world of massive economic inequality, Islamic extremism, wars in Ukraine, global pandemic viruses, an unstable Middle East, the rise of a haughty and jingoistic Russia and many other serious challengers that the global community grapples with.....", how is 'represenation' in games any different ? Excellent question, I'm glad someone asked that Representation in games may seem like an inconsequential factor compared to those other points but it is part of broader agenda which is effectively equality that we should strive for in all our societies. So you will notice that in everyone of those extreme examples I mentioned that the world grapples with in almost cases those countries don't practice equality or aren't very concerned with the happiness of there citizens. So gender equality is actually one of the definitions of a mature and progressive society....and representation in games is part of that which makes it relevant Just as ethical standards in journalism, free speech, anti corruption and anti censorship are even more important parts of a civilised society, your argument is insipid and biased towards the cause you purport to support. Ah yes I was waiting for someone to raise this....well done Nonek The reason why ethics in the gaming industry is not the same as gender equality is because there is an ongoing debate about whether there is an issue at all around so called " corruption in the gaming industry ". Many people, like me, think this whole issue has been horribly exaggerated. Sure there are some issues like in every industry but not to the degree where its so ubiquitous and fundamental like you guys would have us believe. So basically there isn't a concise and accepted definition of what " ethics in the gaming industry " really means But very few people will doubt that gender equality is something that concerns most of us on different levels...I'm sure you can see the difference ?

Nonek it sounds like you having a bad day.....tell me about it...I'm a good listener

And considering our starting point of "We are living in a world of massive economic inequality, Islamic extremism, wars in Ukraine, global pandemic viruses, an unstable Middle East, the rise of a haughty and jingoistic Russia and many other serious challengers that the global community grapples with.....", how is 'represenation' in games any different ? Excellent question, I'm glad someone asked that Representation in games may seem like an inconsequential factor compared to those other points but it is part of broader agenda which is effectively equality that we should strive for in all our societies. So you will notice that in everyone of those extreme examples I mentioned that the world grapples with in almost cases those countries don't practice equality or aren't very concerned with the happiness of there citizens. So gender equality is actually one of the definitions of a mature and progressive society....and representation in games is part of that which makes it relevant

Of course not. Poor representation of females and minorities is indeed an issue, a much greater one then "Ethics in Game's Journalism" But that's not Bruce's point. Bruce's point is that, say, "Islamic Extremism" dwarfs "ethics in journalism" in terms of importance. But "Islamic Extremism" would also dwarf "women's represenatation in video games". But that's not what we're comparing. We're comparing sex/gender in video games/video game industry (anti-GGs) and ethics in journalism (pro-GGs) and not the state of women in the world. And both of the formers dwarf in importance against, say, an Ebola pandemic. So because a person theoretically is working to improve games journalism means they can't also be working to improve other things that have nothing to do with games journalism? Are you really making that argument? You make some good points, I am just surprised at times by the amount of energy that seems to be spent on the topic of " ethics in the gaming industry"...but each to there own

Pretty much why the talk of "representation" in games is very laughable, no ? Of course not. Poor representation of females and minorities is indeed an issue, a much greater one then "Ethics in Game's Journalism". My issue with anti-GG is their praxis and how they waste so much focus and collective action on trying to fix one issue that's symptomatic of much larger issues. Combat the big issues and the smaller issues will follow suit. Yeah what Baro said, also you can't possibly compare the state of gender equality in the world to ethics in the gaming industry. There are women who live and die under horrendous social and institutionalized conditions. No one died the last time I checked due to perceived bias in the gaming industry ?

"Iran freedom " .....that was really funny....you win the much coveted " BruceVC funniest post of the week " award

It was the easiest way to sum up the whole GG/anti-GG thing in as derisive a way as possible. I suppose "videogames are serious business" would have also sufficed. You do make me laugh.... But guys lets be honest for a second. We are living in a world of massive economic inequality, Islamic extremism, wars in Ukraine, global pandemic viruses, an unstable Middle East, the rise of a haughty and jingoistic Russia and many other serious challengers that the global community grapples with.....you can understand why many people don't take the idea of a movement to highlight " ethics in the gaming journalist industry " seriously It does sound quite ludicrous compared to most other things people campaign for

Yes but at the sometime there were not romances Bioware style. So maybe there will be elements like this in PoE. True, but the fact that Planescape didn't really develop the Romance arcs was also one of my biggest criticism of the game Now before people accuse me of being a sad and lonely person and " wanting virtual sex with a pixel generated women " or " dude you weird.. get a RL gfriend " I need to clarify something, my criticism about the platonic Romance was that it was unrealistic considering the grandeur of the narrative Think about it guys, here is this person who has lived a hundred lives....crossed and explored the outer planes....returned from the dead....battled demons...associated with gods....loved deeply and suffered equally....served in the Blood Wars and then has a party of people who are quite prepared to die for him in order for him to discover his identity and purpose And within that party there are two beautiful and enigmatic women ( in the case Annah and Grace) who he is attracted to and have mutual feelings for him....now are you honestly going to tell me that after everything he has done and is doing he is not going to attempt to have a physical relationship with at least one of them during his journey of self-discovery ?

Oh yeah this game is still one of my most anticipated games of 2015 ....very excited

I doubt it, there were certain fundamental concerns about this KS that didn't seem relevant to what Obsidian did and will do People generally just have more faith in a company like Obsidian