BruceVC

Yes I can see how GG has made some progress, well done. Its not all bad you know But I was referring to the objective of getting those websites to close down...but they still open and they still don't like GG Oh no Nonek I really thought we had moved beyond the whole " you are a social justice hypocrite because you go to stripclubs " story? Unless there is another reason I am a hypocrite?

Sometimes, I think some of the things you say are just trolling. Unfortunately, I know better at this point... Yes sometimes the desensitized truth can be so startling to the average person the immediate reaction is " he must be trolling " Prism was created to help the NSA protect America...weird but true

Yeah I do like the emoticon...but it is accurate because I am chuckling and its because sometimes you make me laugh....but its not malicious Oh how is that consumer revolt going ? 8 months in I assume we would have seen the results yet I think RPS, Polygon and other websites are still operating ? And why would I say I support SJ if I didn't ? Why would i pretend....that makes no sense

You could be right.....I went back and read it again. Good observation If its any consolation they cannot change history because that is there intention. Everything is accurately recorded ...they will just destroy the objects and buildings

What about 8. The primordial thrill of eating the raw heart of the animal you have just killed on the hunt ( no need to be politically correct with us but I appreciate the sentiment )

GD thank you for being honest...your view is important because some people won't believe it if I say it..things are actually rather good But GD now I have to remind you about something..and I know you will be honest When Obama was reelected a second time you became unusually depressed and said this was the beginning of the end and we should all invest in gold How do you now feel about that perspective?

I'm not a hothead. "We can't tell you what we've been doing and won't show you, but trust us it's all ok." You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. I don't care how you try to dress up invasion of privacy, it's still a violation of rights and morally wrong. No it doesn't. 1984 wasn't an instruction manual Bruce. Real wages have stagnated since the 70's, with real wealth for the poorest declining. Wealth for the poor is not declining; it's improving. While wages have stagnated, the cost of living and of luxuries have been lowering. Just about everyone is getting wealthier; just some are getting wealthier much faster than others. Huh? Most data I've seen seems to contradict that. Especially considering that real prices of gas have ballooned to ridiculous amounts, taking a much larger chunk of spending than previously. Granted Videogames and streaming have gone down in price, but printed works(especially comics, but no one pays for that) and cable seem to have risen faster than inflation. Only thing a quick search could turn up: http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/SaezZucman2014.pdf If you have some data I'd like to see it. KP I'm clearly not explaining my point properly because you don't seem to get it So firstly yes, there are some things you just need to trust us on But this is not a pig, this is an adoption of a strategy. The same methodology that is used to track the communication of extremists can also theoretically be used to spy on people ...but that is not its intention. So you are right about its potential use but wrong around the practical use of it. Big difference You're explaining your point fine Bruce, your point is just wrong. I have to say what never ceases to amaze me about these forums is the lack of support from our American friends towards these types of initiatives ...like Prism Its designed to protect you and your families yet you only see the negative and criticize it....it boggles my mind

No don't misunderstand me, I am still opposed to GG but I don't agree with everything from anti-GG Also I don't feel the need to dispute or challenge every GG link you guys provide. So I'm more of a interested bystander in this whole event ...but I haven't changed or compromised my SJ loyalties which has very little to do with anti-GG anyway "various sites have been exposed and forced to implement ethical policies, but these are self regulated and as we see regularly the false narratives, the corruption and the anti consumer bias is still present. There is in the end no accountability, no punishments and no ethical standards to adhere to except what the publications make themselves and can easily weasel around and manipulate to their own advantage. As long as supposedly customer focused sites are mocking the victims of bomb threats, and abusive morons are laughing at their pathetic witticisms, then there is still a problem to combat. " So you consider that a victory Nonek....I must say you set yourself very low standards. It reads to me more of a " accepting defeat in a mature and constructive way " speech

I must say they have created a new level of reprehensible for me, Al-Qaeda held that position previously

Well to be fair its just one article on the Middle East page and they cover everything else? Also its about the extinction of a species of bird so I would say its relevant ?

Definitely Rachel...how annoying to get woken up like that

I am a very fortunate person as I am always in a good mood and happy...so its hard to mention one specific thing

I don't think we are derailing the thread, we are merely discussing an unusual element of it

"We can't tell you what we've been doing and won't show you, but trust us it's all ok." You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. I don't care how you try to dress up invasion of privacy, it's still a violation of rights and morally wrong. No it doesn't. 1984 wasn't an instruction manual Bruce. Real wages have stagnated since the 70's, with real wealth for the poorest declining. Wealth for the poor is not declining; it's improving. While wages have stagnated, the cost of living and of luxuries have been lowering. Just about everyone is getting wealthier; just some are getting wealthier much faster than others. Huh? Most data I've seen seems to contradict that. Especially considering that real prices of gas have ballooned to ridiculous amounts, taking a much larger chunk of spending than previously. Granted Videogames and streaming have gone down in price, but printed works(especially comics, but no one pays for that) and cable seem to have risen faster than inflation. Only thing a quick search could turn up: http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/SaezZucman2014.pdf If you have some data I'd like to see it. KP I'm clearly not explaining my point properly because you don't seem to get it So firstly yes, there are some things you just need to trust us on But this is not a pig, this is an adoption of a strategy. The same methodology that is used to track the communication of extremists can also theoretically be used to spy on people ...but that is not its intention. So you are right about its potential use but wrong around the practical use of it. Big difference

- Wealth inequality- Unsustainable resource exploitation - Poverty - Racism - Sexism - The continued erosion of our civil liberties For the Love of God and all the little pixies... wealth inequality is not a bad thing. Poverty is a bad thing. Starving is a bad thing. Having no prospect of ever having a job is a bad thing. I'd be depressed about this particular meme, but it died out in the eighties. Mainly BECAUSE WE COULD DIRECTLY LOOK AT COMMUNISM AND SEE IT WAS BULLS***. It can die out again. Well said my English friend, you're a military man. You know the way the world works, I assume you can understand why various governments have increased data monitoring of there citizens? You right of course about the whole redundant Communism concept ...yet it seems to resurface in different places and with different motives. In my own country there is a f***g political party called the EFF that seriously advocates mass nationalization of all banks and mines, taking from the whites and " the people owning the land" ...and they received 1 million votes....so this interest in old school socialism\communism is real and cannot be dismissed

Yes I agree. And you mustn't underestimate the dislike and resentment that many people who support GG have for people like Anita And its just as extreme from some people on the anti-GG side. You can see how some people on anti-GG are now only interested in a game that addresses SJ points, everything else is ignored which is sad and seems to miss the main point of a game...to have fun. Like that review of the Witcher 3 from Polygon. So the battle lines are drawn and intransigence is the order of the day for some people. There isn't any real discussion outside of forums like this, its more about criticism and outrage. My advice is be like me, I don't get too involved and can at least have a debate with both sides

"We won't use this data we've collected and stored on you without your consent to do anything wrong, we promise!" Are you seriously arguing that because terrorists so inept that a bomb they sowed into a man's underwear failed to detonate after he successfully boarded a plane haven't been able to pull off a 9/11 the NSA(and other authorities) are doing an excellent job? So spying on citizens does "an excellent job" but they still aren't going to be able to stop a couple of guys who made bombs in the garage? I'd hardly consider that a justification for invasion of privacy and would instead consider it proof that the war on terror failed badly. There have been many successful prevention's of terrorist attacks since 9/11, you just don't hear about all of them. So don't think that all the CIA and NSA initiatives are about that one incident. Its much more complex and effective than that Also remember that this war against terrorism is also fought on the Internet. So whether you like it or not all countries involved in this war have to implement measures that allow them to monitor the flow of electronic data. This is not an attack on the civil rights of citizens but its just the reality of the interconnected world we live in and how extremist groups use the Internet to plan and formulate strategies. You could argue that a system like Prism is going too far and I understand that but I would argue " can a government ever go too when trying to keep its citizens safe " So you really need to see the reasonable reasons for this increased monitoring...it makes sense under the circumstances

that made me laugh

No, my disdain for the state and limits on my rights influences my view. The government monitoring communication is an infringement on natural rights. The usage of the internet by some to commit cyber-warfare does not excuse the invasion of privacy by the state. The war on terror is a failure. Spying on citizens under the guise of protecting them is the hallmark of a police state. But you are misunderstanding how this monitoring of data is used The NSA doesn't care about your personal communication unless you are on there radar. I doubt they monitor all the data of every single citizen....that would be almost impossible. They are selective about who they target. So don't worry about them spying on you Funny you say the war on terror is a failure considering the fact its still ongoing and the US authorities have done an excellent job at preventing another 9/11 Its very hard to stop lone wolfs like the Boston marathon bombers but lets give them some credit

Should I only care about the curbing of civil liberties once they have directly effected me?Should I cease caring about the impact of racism and sexism too? Come on you are too clever to make silly comparisons Being opposed to bigotry is not the same thing as your government passing laws to protect its citizens from the threat of attack? My government passing laws to trample natural rights people is worse than bigotry in many ways. Yes it can be but its not like you live in Russia where there is real pressure on the free press ? The problems of another state does not negate the problems with my own. The fact that I or anyone else in the US can be spied on without consent concerns me greatly, as it should anyone who favors freedom. Its interesting how that type of thing doesn't bother me..but I do sell and implement eDiscovery software so it would strange if that type of thing did bother me Your distaste for liberty and love for the state is well known Bruce. No your view is influenced by perceived GG bias I believe in free speech but that doesn't mean that your government shouldn't have the ability to monitor electronic communication if required Its naive to think that the Internet in your country shouldn't be able to be monitored ...you do realize the USA is at war with Islamic extremists that do use the Internet for communication and for cyber-warfare? If the war on terror was over then the likes of Prism wouldn't be necessary. Its not designed to police USA citizens who mean no harm to your country

Should I only care about the curbing of civil liberties once they have directly effected me?Should I cease caring about the impact of racism and sexism too? Come on you are too clever to make silly comparisons Being opposed to bigotry is not the same thing as your government passing laws to protect its citizens from the threat of attack? My government passing laws to trample natural rights people is worse than bigotry in many ways. Yes it can be but its not like you live in Russia where there is real pressure on the free press ? The problems of another state does not negate the problems with my own. The fact that I or anyone else in the US can be spied on without consent concerns me greatly, as it should anyone who favors freedom. Its interesting how that type of thing doesn't bother me..but I do sell and implement eDiscovery software so it would strange if that type of thing did bother me

You're being targeted with racism and sexism? Do tell. And what civil liberties have you personally lost in the last year or two? And how does unsustainable resource exploitation affect you on a personal day to day level. Please note what this thread was about. No I think he means modern society is beset by these types of things so he doesn't think its as great as I do

Should I only care about the curbing of civil liberties once they have directly effected me?Should I cease caring about the impact of racism and sexism too? Come on you are too clever to make silly comparisons Being opposed to bigotry is not the same thing as your government passing laws to protect its citizens from the threat of attack? My government passing laws to trample natural rights people is worse than bigotry in many ways. Yes it can be but its not like you live in Russia where there is real pressure on the free press ?

Should I only care about the curbing of civil liberties once they have directly effected me? Should I cease caring about the impact of racism and sexism too? Come on you are too clever to make silly comparisons Being opposed to bigotry is not the same thing as your government passing laws to protect its citizens from the threat of attack?

We had the Anti-Terrorism Act in 2005 and Abbott's recently been cracking down harder. Indeed. Okay but how has the anti-terrorism laws in Oz effected you personally?