BruceVC

Beer sounds lovely...cheese even better I'm not really a shrink so I don't feel like I misread you

No you make some good points even if I don't necessarily agree with everything you say You also seem to be making some spurious justifications for not liking Romance, for example you say "I've played some Bioware RPGs, and without fail the characters who aren't romance options end up being better written and more interesting " ...really? Lets consider this point for a second .... Isabella wasn't an interesting personality in DA2? She was probably the most memorable person ?

I have to admit I would HATE to be having a debate against Kgambit and Gromnir ....they are both far too analytical, intelligent and dogmatic Shame poor Zora....the only consolation is I tend to agree with him that this negotiation is the right decision for the region. And it feels weird to agree with Zora because our core political views are so different But this is one case where my American friends are not seeing the strategic big picture. And I can understand that as NO Republicans will agree with this deal for various reasons ....

Okay so I clarified my point and I settled any misunderstandings. But I also have accepted that white South Africans do have white privilege after listening to the talk show host explain a few things about how black South Africans were effected from Apartheid What I overlooked is even if Apartheid didn't give all white people an economic advantage we have family structures that go back generations ...and the reality is Apartheid really devastated the black family structure. So just from that perspective I have to recognize white privilege from a South African perspective ...of course this doesn't change the issues we face now but we need to admit it

Hi Cantie " waves " You have a really bad habit of vanishing from the forums without saying goodbye ? Please tell us when you are going to go away....we miss you Cantie do you really think that is the reason you don't like Romance? I'm a psychiatrist in RL and I can guarantee you that's just a defensive mechanism you say that you have convinced yourself is the reason. Most people say something similar about Romance because to say the real reason sounds silly...and thats the interesting part of this debate The main reason people are opposed to Romance is because they think its something incongruous and weird, they feel uncomfortable about the fact there is something that exists in RL that is suddenly part of a fantasy RPG. Add to that the sometimes uncomfortable perceived connection that some promancers have towards Romance, for example check the Romance threads on BSN, and this makes people want to distance themselves from it...because suddenly the game has something that crosses a boundary. " How can people care about Romancing some pixel generated person in a game ...get a real life GF or BF " Think about it my friend....and I won't even charge you for my session because I like you and I don't want you to create false justifications for not liking Romance

Yeah , how much would you pay for the video card I'm getting in the USA ? I am paying $400 Around 250$ at NEWEGG or TigerDirect. Nice card. Thanks, you see how we get ripped off in South Africa? It annoys me that the retailers charge so much margin its almost double the price

Yeah , how much would you pay for the video card I'm getting in the USA ? I am paying $400

Ignoring emotions is kind of the definition of being rational. That's not actually how rationality works. Emotions provide people with motivations - rationality is the task of addressing one's emotional motives in a way that is self-consistent with what one knows. Without emotions, there isn't even a reason to be rational, much less to be anything else. A person who finds romances in games to be un/pleasant, and therefore does/n't want them to be present in those games is being rational, regardless of whether or not that's an experience anyone else shares. (This post is brought to you by existentialism - it first arrives on the stage, and then you get to decide what to make of it.) tl;dr Spock wasn't logical, he was just a lazy utilitarian. Yes but what if the reasons for not wanting Romance are illogical, this would be irrational So if you say " I don't like Romance because they are not satisfying or believable " ......this is illogical because why would you seriously judge the dialogue options of a fantasy RPG on a level of satisfying or if they are believable ( dont get me wrong I would love to date Viconia in RL but its not going to happen )? Its a game ....come on guys . Read a good book if you want to judge the dialogue on such a meticulous level Or maybe watch Notting Hill for some good and believable Romance ?

Yeah that is actually an ideal Romance implementation ...so you are clearly a Romance iconoclast ..basically a hater I will go even further. If there are going to be romances for us female types hire a female creative writer over 25 and have her do at least some of the writing. Better yet hire three women, one under 25, one 25 to 40 and one over 40. !!! Now you are getting it ...you go girl

Good point Barti, my previous card was Gigabyte AMD Radeon 5800 2GB What are the most relevant components on a video card that allows you to set maximum settings ?

Yeah that is actually an ideal Romance implementation ...so you are clearly a Romance iconoclast ..basically a hater

That is very relevant....thanks for sharing. I work in software but I am not very familiar with how graphic cards allow you to improve graphic settings, I am basing my view on my current card having 2GB and can run GTAV on about 60 % performance. What do I need to consider ?

My personal aversion is quite rational, actually. I've found almost invariably that romance options in games are just awkward, not believable, and generally unsatisfying. Of course, there's always the option to just not bother with them if they're in the game, I understand that. But if it's there, I'll likely follow it to see where it goes, in the (usually vain) hope it will be good. I've yet to be overly impressed. So I'd much rather the time spent writing and developing romances were spent elsewhere. Its ironic but you have unintentionally highlighted my point ...for many people they base there dislike of Romance on factors that they normally wouldn't judge other fantasy RPG components on. So we now judge Romance on it being " believable or satisfying " Have you ever said ..."I don't like the way this dungeon was designed or how this dragon attacked me, it was unsatisfying " Anyway I am not fighting with you ...I have heard all these reasons. We can happily agree to disagree

Yeah it was a shock.....I was really surprised because it was the last thing I expected....but its fine. I have learnt how to avoid it next time

Gfted1 I imagine you are wracked with "white privilege guilt " ? It must be hard carrying around that messiah complex. But no, I bear no guilt of my forefathers. You sure, no judgement here ? But just to be clear, I feel absolutely no guilt because I had nothing to do with Apartheid. I was too young. I feel terrible for the dehumanizing impact Apartheid had on people and I believe it was an abhorrent system. But thats not the same as guilt My commitment to the future of a prosperous multiracial South Africa is more about the fact it can work if we all contribute and understand our level of responsibility as white people

Ignoring emotions is kind of the definition of being rational. Thats clever....look I never said you anti-Romance types weren't clever, that's part of the issue with the aversion to Romance...some of you guys over-analyze it and expect the equivalent to a Game of Thrones type Romance in a game with dialogue. Its never going to be that good or sincere

Gfted1 I imagine you are wracked with "white privilege guilt " ?

Guys its nothing personal but some of the resistance to Romance is just ....irrational

Sadly no Obsidian intentionally left this out of the game, it was a mistake IMO as we both know how Romance adds to the overall entertainment factor But on this forum you will find most people don't like Romance or they feel it somehow demeans the overall value of a game ...yes its also a mistaken view but trust me you won't change peoples minds on this forum..." you can't teach an old dog new tricks " and all that

Well, if this person is speaking to me, I move on in that I just don't bother with them. They can flap their jaws as they like, but I would just carry on with the discussion if involves others or just ignore them if it doesn't. They are happy to carry on their crusade elsewhere and I've no obligation or interest in changing their mind, assuming that is possible. Could be very very fun, to wind people up though. Is a bit harder with race as you need to avoid sounding racist in the attempt. Is much more fun with atheists. Something I never explained, I am involved in live radio debates. Now you may think " radio debates ....how significant is that " In South Africa its very, the radio and talk shows are what many people use to understand issues and to gain insight on political events that you and I have known for years. So for example many black South Africans think still think that real Communism offers a viable form of government...and thats because they were influenced by Communist dogma during Apartheid. I participate in 3 different radio talk shows so I understand the slightly different ideological views of the people who listen to them. And I change my approach slightly on each one so as to not alienate people ...here are two. The first one is considered the countries most authoritative and carries much influence in the private sector http://www.702.co.za/ http://www.powerfm.co.za/

Yes I could easily if I wanted to make people feel even worse about the issues....the stats in this case are unhelpful Most white people don't bother because they get too annoyed by the uninformed vitriol and I understand that. Its frustrating if you always seem to be blamed for things because of your race But as I said I believe in actively being involved in the transformation of the country and helping people to grapple with things that being part of the global community mean

I was surprised by the criticism because my comment about the government had been reasonable and logical I know what some of you may be thinking...." yeah we know how reasonable you can be when you give advice" but I am acutely aware of what is the best way to make a point in a South African debate so that it is not seen as either dismissive or condescending ( on these forums I am less sensitive because you guys are Internet savy ) There are still people in South Africa that cannot differentiate between criticism of the president and certain policies and criticism of the whole ruling party and therefore this would be criticism of the new South Africa. So they thought I was saying " this country is f**d...you see black people cannot run a country ". Its complicated but that's the reality of debate in South Africa when it comes to certain topics. And thats fine...I have no issue with that Its coincidental Gromnir but this happened just after you posted your informative view on white privilege ....so I wasn't exaggerating when I said how that resonated with me And also I know you probably don't like me giving you recognition about things that you consider insignificant but once again your history and life experiences are relevant. You went through a fair amount of discrimination and societal hard times and yet have have achieved success in a " white mans world ". And you still understand the big picture and what really matters in life and you can give advice. Thats very commendable You see this is the correct intellectual response but this would be completely misunderstood and not seen as constructive in a normal South African debate And I'm not suggesting the people I debate with are stupid ..rather they are less sophisticated or have less worldly experience and when you make a point you make it clearly and explain as much as possible

Very much so. When dealing with police officers or certain employers (traditional industries), whites are somewhat privileged. On liberal arts college campuses or when dealing with with certain other employers (e.g. in the entertainment/media sector), minorities are somewhat privileged. All things taken together though, any racial privilege that may exist is dwarfed (by leaps and bound) by the advantages that being financially well off brings compared to being poor. "Rich privilege" is the only truly pervasive privilege in modern society. Very good point that actually, maybe I need to raise that the real privilege is wealth The issue being that many people think that all white South Africans are very wealthy and have trust funds ...so the response will be similar to " well yes all white people are wealthy so we recognize that issue and they got rich due to the abuse of black people during Apartheid " So sometimes I can't answer completely truthfully or it gets misinterpreted

I am about to collect my new GIGABYTE NVIDIA GTX 960 G1 4GB video card Its has double the memory of my current card so I am looking forward to maxing the graphic settings on games like W3 and GTAV, which I can't do at the moment

What would you do if someone said that white Americans have benefited from historical abuse of Native Americans and built parts of the economy on the backs of black African American slaves ? And you need to recognize this ..would you? Dude ...seriously you have no idea. You wouldn't believe the debates I am involved in....but I understand that is because of our past and the impact Apartheid had, so I never question the validity of why people believe things. I just dispute them where applicable