BruceVC

Yes I agree with you around peoples motives in a normal coup but the definition of a coup is where a group seizes power in country and takes over running that country. Like a military coup That wasnt what this was about as far as I can gather, the group that marched to the Capitol wanted to support Trump and raise attention to how the election had been " stolen " I would be very surprised if they honestly believed they would be running the country somehow? So I am not saying they shouldn't be judged and prosecuted in certain cases. I am saying to think they wanted to " take over the country " doesnt seem accurate? Its just been framed like that on some news channels that this was a coup ?

https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/south-africa/2021-01-04-anc-ethekwini-councillor-says-5g-towers-spread-covid-19-and-whites-have-vaccine/ Here is an example of what we deal with in SA around fake news and virus denialists The good news this is unusual in how ignorant and racist the councilor is .....I get annoyed by these comments from people in government because we pay there salaries and how can he be trusted to do his job with this type of ignorance ? But its rare and is not the official view of the our government

Is anyone concerned that for many of the people who participated in the violence they genuinely believed that they were doing the right thing and that the the 2020 election " had been stolen " and this meant that the entire foundation of what defines the USA was in jeopardy ? I was watching this on Sky and it made me pause and consider what is the difference between a real coup, because this wasnt a real coup, and this group who felt they were actually protecting the integrity of Democracy? I am not expecting anyone to feel sorry for them because they made choices and as with choices in life there always are consequence But it goes back the post I made earlier about " perception on the ground " and how would any country ensure this type of thing doesn't occur again Its also important to separate people in this protest carrying Confederate Flags who are normally linked to right wing groups and protestor who are not racist but felt they were defending the USA ? I am just wondering if anyone is prepared, and I would understand if people aren't interested, in looking at them in less critical way than what we saw in Charlottesville which had many real right wings groups? So does this type of real ignorance matter to their actions and how you feel ?

But he is everywhere...in most photos My family in SA send me a Cosplay joke about him

Its symbolic because 7 Republican Senate members still tried to block Biden after the violence. They will be marked for all time as " the group that still supported Trump " And I absolutely believe the GOP can move away from Trumpism, in fact it will easier than most think once Trump is gone

Guys I honestly believe this is not the end of the Republican party, I firmly believe we should see this as the " realignment of the GOP back to its core values before Trump " Even Lindsay Graham distanced himself from Trump

To be honest in all the years I have known you to comment on politics this is probably the most concerned and or upset you have ever been on a development And I am not criticizing you at all, we all upset on different levels about what happened Its just an observation

Mamie !!!! Why arent you playing any DS.....what is wrong ?

Giuliani is trying to squirm his way out of any responsibility for the violence and how he was also one of the instigators He used the words " trial by combat " and violence ensured and people died. He definitely doesn't get a pass ...ever https://news.yahoo.com/lets-trial-combat-over-election-164935300.html

That is interesting, so an educated man is responsible for the failure and the decades of the Cold War where the Soviets and China, mainly, tried to spread the deeply flawed Communist ideology around the world Im disappointed a truly educated man could think of such a terrible system for people to live under ....but lets accept its true

No BLM protests have been around on and off since about 2013 and certain events, like the killing of Floyd, can lead to additional protests and resurgence of anger and recognition of the movement . So the BLM protests didnt start after the virus spread at all?

There have been 1 or 2 BLM protests, there was one about 3 weeks around over an alleged killing by the police, I dont know if its true or not but at the moment the virus spread has been keeping many people off the streets

Interesting post Zora, interesting I have absolutely noticed this today on all the international news channels I watch and especially CNN where most commentators are framing this as a civil war type of event and the greatest attack on the USA kind of thing....there are really degrees of embellishment and no real " lets unite as 1 country " at the moment But Trump is still more to blame than the media sometimes mischaracterizing events ...he could have toned down the rhetoric and accepted the election results and this wouldnt have occurred Oh and I really love and enjoy both Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo but they guilty of this at the moment on CNN

Trump has just released a new statement where he accepts " their will be an orderly transition " on Jan 20. I cant find it online at the moment to post it so you can read all yourselves Its a weak statement and I dont accept it as its too late, he should have said this weeks ago to avoid what we witnessed Trump has played a huge part in the final, violent death knell of his presidency and in some ways the only positive you could get from the anarchy we saw last night is now even more Republicans are turning away from him and Biden will definitely become president

Isnt it an interesting type of thought pattern us gamers seem to demonstrate at times when we feel almost guilty about dropping the difficulty level of games As I mentioned in my Bards Tale 4 review I sometimes drop the difficulty level on some games, not all games like RDR2 single player or Bioware games , and even though I consciously do it under no manipulation or coercion I always feel guilty ...always. Like I am breaking some kind of code and I am betraying some principle which I dont really know how to explain how or what I am breaking

This has got be one of the funniest things I have seen around what happened

Elerond remember the police were caught off-guard during this violence. It wasnt done on purpose to allow this anarchy The resources allocated during BLM protests were arranged and organized in advance in many responses to areas of violence that had been seen in almost every BLM protests by small groups of agitators and extreme elements So I can understand your concern but their is no evidence the police were part of what happened or intentionally allowed things to spiral out of control

Yes I tend to agree, a lack of education can lead to these types of events but this is more than that on both sides Its not just about lack of education. I cannot quite explain it because its unique in the world around what I have seen in the last 20 years in numerous countries. I have a real vested interest and support several global developments and ideological movements in the world outside of my support for the USA and its influence on certain things that matter to me. I have also done things or shared similar ideological views, like the Neocon views of early 2000's that contributed towards the invasion of Iraq, that I am not proud of and realize I was wrong to think like that or act in a certain way. I have changed my views in a much more constructive and consistent way through the years, or try to, as I have learnt several painful life lessons Anyway the point being I have traveled to countries in Africa and the ME where many people are not educated. And I mean really not educated as in no schooling or limited schooling maybe up to grade 6. You can understand how in some of these countries a lack of education can lead to citizens being easily influenced or manipulated by certain ideological views and then acting on these views. I am not justifying the violence I have seen in certain places because in these very same countries most people who are also not educated are not committing violence and are normally victims of the more extreme element in their own country So the first salient point I want to make is people make choices based on there own views and agendas and then decide to act in certain way, it a choice they make and you dont need an education to make the right choice and say " no to anarchy and violence " So then we look at the USA reality of the last 4 years. Most people on both sides who can be accused of violence I am sure have at least a grade 12 or similar degrees of education. In some cases with the mask-denialists and anti-vaxxers there are people with degrees and University education that deny the effectiveness of a vaccine and the reality of the virus !!! You cannot, for example, have a reasonable debate and ever agree with people who dont even accept the existence of the virus or think masks are about the Deep State So in closing, the " perception on the ground " point is nuanced and complex and manifests itself on the groud in the USA and other countries in different ways on both sides ...buts its not just about education. I wish it was that because that would be easier to understand and address

As usual you make a good argument that is based on facts but what you are ignoring is there is absolutely a real view from some people on the right that "BLM is allowed to run riot in Democrat cities so violence from our side is okay " This is the perception on the ground from some and perception is reality. So even if you are 100 % correct about overreach from Federal agents and Barr being guilty of unconstitutional behavior that is not how people see it And many Trump supporters would have less justification to commit there acts of violence if there was consistency from the police in all states in dealing with violence

Everything I am about to say in the post below is not some kind of innuendo or veiled attack on anyone personally, this is my real observations around the Trump presidency and how certain developments occurred and patterns of behavior were allowed on both sides and some of this accumulated in the violence we saw yesterday. And as usual peoples comments are appreciated and always welcome as we unpack what happened You know Trump will never resign even though that would be a good decision , part of Trumps meteoric rise to power is this unusual stance he took where from the beginning where he has refused to apologize and said he doesn't believe in being " politically correct " (PC ). Despite the fact being PC is very easy and normal in public commentary and just means you make a point in public using diplomacy and you dont insult or offend people by your choice of words. Being PC is normal for politicians and is part of the expected decorum and protocol for anyone in government I will never forget how that really started in his 2015 campaign where he openly attacked the media and called CNN pejorative names like " fake news " and " terrible people " and " you cannot trust the media " Over the last 2 years we have seen different degrees of violence and anarchy from both sides, all this violence should have condemned and dealt with effectively from the beginning. But when we see months of protests being allowed to continue in places like Portland this sets a bad precedent and then the other side starts thinking " its okay to use this strategy to justify our political objectives " Another example was from your own state where BLM protests occupied a police station in Seattle and the police ended up evacuating there own police station !!! I am not trying to put you on the spot as I genuinely dont understand how anyone can be fine with this especially when we see the anarchy continue to increase as people on both sides become emboldened by lack of action But your view on this would be appreciated as I consider you a well informed and reasonable person and just want to understand how you feel about the Seattle police station being allowed to be occupied? I believe you have to be consistent with the application of the law and how the police deal with violence. If you dont do that you allow extreme elements on both sides to push the boundaries and act with impunity and we see the appalling outcome of this in what we witnessed yesterday Your comments and others comments will be appreciated as we try to understand how we can prevent this type of behavior from happening again and this can occur in any country, not just the USA. In SA we often have violent protests but never have I seen an attack on our government buildings

This really made me laugh, I have to say the whole " cosplay" comparison is very apt

That seems like an unreasonable thing to ask for ?

Oh no Antifa was involved in months of violence and criminal behavior, its seems silly to compare them because they both guilty of criminal acts but Antifa is much worse because of the length of time they committed violence

Thats a clever comment and funny too

If the National Guard needs to be deployed then they must definitely do it One guy even got onto the floor of where they were debating, he was arrested