Orogun01

Is probably because the ones that are likely to tell you are the hardliners, most well adjusted people know that politics sour personal relationships.

I'm sorry I came here to support your music and buy your album, I didn't think it would be this.

I know that one of the guys that started this has been on the GamerGate issue for a while, it basically began as him and a few other posters on 4chan. Anyways the TFYC campaign is 15k short of meeting their goal with a month to go, it looks as if they might make it. Which is a good thing.

Well, it was impossible for this not to spill into the real world. Now real journals seem to be taking notice http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201409032102-0024126

It would make Greco-Roman wrestling more popular, I support this notion.

Yes she is the departure point but an effort has been made to keep this impersonal and not let it be about her but about her actions and the people surrounding her. As for it not being corrupt; I would ask you to look for the code of journalistic ethics and how these indie developers are financially tied to journalists. If you don't think that is important that their relationship be disclosed, or that they recluse themselves from judging panels because it is unfair to other entries then I don't know what to tell you. Also, there is the fact that they are censoring (or its being done in their favor) any opposing speech and affecting people's careers because of political reasons. On an unrelated note; welcome to the forums. I don't recall seeing you before.

Mostly focused on Quinn while the whole thing has moved on towards Silverstring Media, Maya Kramer and the consequences of those connections. Meanwhile 4chan has made it a point to not make this about Quinn as they don't want it to be considered an attack on an individual. They are going after corrupt gaming press not after Zoey Quinn.

The festival is Indiecade and international Independent games festival, Papers Please and Depression Quest were both in NightGames which is a party held by the festival. I misremebered about it being part of the contest. The outrage stems from the fact that Robin Arnott was the chair of the NightGames at IndieCade and he is one of the guys mentioned in the WordPress. http://i.imgur.com/tf9ig3e.jpg

The articles are just part in a series of unethical practices, is not that they used their position to promote their friends but the extent to which this promotion goes. They are in many cases patrons to the developer rather than critics, they have rigged contests with this kind of behavior. So while their little group hogs all the attention because of their politics every other Indie suffers for it. To put it in context; Papers Please is a game that was well received by both sides of the fence. Papers Please lost in a competition to Depression Quest because of the panel which had close connections to Zoe Quinn. On top of that they seem to freely censor speech because of political reasons, in the past game developers and journalists have been blackballed because of their views. It is happening right now within this whole debate. So like I said, the articles are the least of it.

Competent, independent, heroic(-ish, Female Han Solo would be okay). Bonus points if non-sexualized, but not an absolute requirement. 1-Katniss from the Hunger Games 2- Hermione from Harry Potter 3- River Song from Dr. Who 4- Veronica from FalloutNV 5-Daenery from Game of Thrones 6-Tris from Divergent 7-Watson from Elementary 8-Root from Person of Interest 9-Sam from Person of Interest 10-Commander Shepard from Mass Effect Do you want me keep going by format or are you going start complaining now?

Guys does no one have a comment about this video? Ok fine, I don't like Jim Sterling. Is not his arguments, I just don't like him and he tends to have problem voicing his stance on internet medium since he leans towards short grandiose statements that can only be interpreted as support or condemnation. It may be that people just don't like him or his persona.

If you see a random pretty person on the street or TV and you go, "Wow." Do you then flog yourself you don't know who they are as a person? No I don't flog myself. I often notice attractive women and even try to talk to them if they in a line at a supermarket. I also go to strip clubs and watch porn. But what does your comment about me noticing an attractive women have to do with the objectification of women in games? I'm saving this post and showing it to all your SJW friends, they will shun you and you will finally come to the Dark Side.

Oh please, provide me with 10 examples of good (positive) female characters from popular media in the last 5 years. Fussy indeed; when you say positive: what's the criteria?

I'm going to address your points by numbered instead of bullet...points(is there something you're passively aggressive trying to get across by using bullet points instead of numbers? ) 1- I agree about representation of women in games but I don't see the problem to be misogyny so much as bad writing, which we have discussed before along with the matter of how production costs affect target demographic and the product. 2-With bloated production costs publishers tend to go after the biggest paying demographic, if you would remember when everyone seemed to be after the CoD demographic that's a good example. Meanwhile they are unwilling to commit the same capital towards other target because of the expected return, they couldn't simply roll back to lower cost because of technology and gamer's expectation. The big companies are going to be making less games in the coming years because of this, if you pay attention to game releases you can compare how the number has declined since 2009 to now were the were no major AAA releases this summer. They don't seem to have an intention of changing their strategy. 3- Feelings are very subjective and opinions vary from person to person, tolerance usually means that we agree to everyone having some basic rights even if they don't deserve them or misuse them. You can't legislate feelings (although I'm sure one of our resident lawyers will tell me of some instance or bring up Hate Crimes) so I would argue that they don't have merit since they can't be conductive towards anything other than themselves. 4- They have approached this matter with inflammatory rhetoric, it is no surprise that this starts flame wars. Had they quelled their burning zeal they could have voiced their concerns with care. Both sides seem to be stuck on name calling but the onus of the cause lies on feminism since they are trying to change the status quo and the failure to change the status quo lies with feminism because they are stuck name calling gamers. 4 years since the Tropes vs. Women and what are they still doing? So is really difficult to ascertain what side should the real feminist be; although in my opinion they should oppose those that have tainted their name, but the fact is that this is one of those issues where there are no moderates. Just the people who reasonably try to achieve their goal and those that foam at the mouth while typing. Because of the nature of it and how it has escalated it won't be solved until either gamers back down or game journalists. Gamers have numbers on their side. A special note about the usage of hate speech, while it has been on both sides of the fence the ultimate failure is because of the unwillingness of the moderate voices to sit down and debate. On any polarizing subject you will find extremists but in most subjects attention has been given to those that can voice their platform in an eloquent manner, i.e: the debates between Atheism and Religion on Creationism. None of the parties have made efforts toward such debate on an open forum, I find difficult to believe that there are no representatives in the gaming media that could have taken the opposing argument. I would speculate that it has more to do with feminists censoring dissenting arguments and hiring practices that were influenced by politics. After all, you can't go from having a heterogeneous community to an homogeneous one with out taking out a part of the population. Edit: News on Gamer Gate, Niche Gamer (a gaming journal) has tweeted a call for game developers to write anonymously their opinions about GamerGate. Hopefully, some brave souls will allow their names to be publicized but I see this more of an attempt from Niche Gamer to become the alternative to corrupt media.

This has real world relevance how? All throughout the 90's every sitcom diminished the importance of men for comedic purposes (e.g: Married with Children, Friends, The Drew Carey Show, Seinfeld, etc.. ) There was no outrage from men, there were still action movies and a diverse representation of men in different roles. The same is true for women, the media is there you just have too look for it; Anita did and apparently thought they were all misogynistic. There are also a lot of realistic portrayal of women that are being denied simply because it doesn't comfort to their value system, or are we expected to buy that all women are perfect and above fault (I'm reminded how some people defended Charlize Theron role in Monster just on the basis that she was a woman killing men) Also, how about objectification of men in female targeted media? If men take offense to it will the feminists readily agree to take it down because you know; they're about equality. Or will they just call them MRA. We had this discussion before and it always turn the same, because somehow you have found a way to believe in modern feminism and live on the real world without massive cognitive dissonance; kudos for that really. Myself, I don't recognize their value system based on the fact that women are oppressed just because there is content that's offensive to them. Specially since that offensive content has done less to color my attitudes toward women than real women have. I can't take seriously the childish wailing of women who instead of adapting to the world and finding the media that they like; which is there because there is always something for everyone. Instead they choose to try and turn society on its head because apparently there is something wrong with liking women for their bodies. Also, you really don't see how instead of a moderate rally for the creation of new media that better represents their values alongside the other kinds differs from the current voicing of the end of objectification and how all media should be inclusive and non offensive. (Even going so far as to begin the concept of triggers) I would also like you to consider the fact that their actions (the few that they've made) haven't been positive. As for the misogynistic 4chan, somehow even from the beginning of this whole thing (4 years or so ago) have managed to make the distinction between real feminist; which they taken to calling women's right activist and the new wave feminists. Even going as far as holding one as an example to the other of what they should be. As a whole I find any positive comment about this kind of feminism disingenuous, even if there are good people in there their actions as a group always leave a lot to be desired and as a said before; 4chan has done more in two weeks for the cause of women in gaming that feminist have done in 2 years. In the end is your actions that are the measure of your character and I've seen the character both parties and I find feminists to be lacking. I wish you could prove me wrong.

I never understood, as it was never explained to me since I have a white privilege and all that why is it that sexual objectification is bad. I get that doing it to real people diminish their actual worth because humans are capable of much. But in escapism it does serve the purposes of a specific narrative, and if fiction is capable of actually influencing your core values and your sense of self then maybe we should be looking towards changing violent media. Still relevant point of how everyone seems to be ok with violence in video games because people can tell the difference between reality and fiction but apparently they can't when gender roles are involved. I still don't see all these complaints as anything more than an attempt to subvert a value system and replace it with another that's more favorable to them.

DOTA was based on a map for StarCraft, you could say that it was the original MOBA.

I doubt those games have AAA equivalents otherwise people would be flocking to them. Also you're all wrong, you shouldn't like games because they're fun or because you like them it should be because the promote the cause of making the world a more inclusive place and have equal representation.....

What was MOBA about Homeworld ? RTS have since grown categories, those that focus on online play(MOBA: Multiplayer Online Battle Arena) E.G: StarCraft. Homeworld kind of skirted the line as your units carried over into the next mission but the focus were the battles as opposed to Grand Strategy were most encounters can be autoresolved and the determining factor in success is the campaign map. Basically I want more management, diplomacy and empire building than combat.

And since we're on the internet where, if not for my avatar, none of you would know I'm secretly a cat, I'll be generous and assume you also have a 14-inch ****. Well that explains why you're so fussy.

How about the outrage that for past 3 or so years a group has hijacked game media and injected their political agenda? Every argument started by feminism can be traced back to people involved in this scandal. The opposition has moved on from Quinn's infidelity any abuse she gets is from fringe elements, you know like the ones feminist have but seem to have a blind spot for, specially on matters like this one. The only reason that her name is being brought up is because she is the departure point of most of the investigation and seem to be well connected. The last video (if you watched it) was about Maya and the one before that concerned with Patricia Hernandez, Ana Anthropy and Steven Totillo. I mean, what they did would have gotten them fired on any other job. No company would put themselves on the line of fire for an employed that misbehaved, heck they wouldn't do it for one that's just suspect of misbehavior. So why is it that the gaming media has rally for them and against gamers? Plus, is hard to feel they're doing this out of some sense of respect for the integrity of those involved in the scandal since they haven't had qualms in the past of ruining developer's careers with accusations of misogyny and the like. Even going as far as publishing personal information and taking a stand against them. If words matter to them why don't they police their speech better, certainly you have seen how they use the same rhetoric they claim to despise with the same childish glee as their alleged abusers seem to do. When you say "won't try to defend or understand the indefensible", what exactly are you referring to? Foul language against the Indie media and developers or the fact what they do is inexcusable and their double standard is as clear as glass. Because I'm really having trouble seeing how are gamers the bad guys here. If what you're saying is that a positive outcome of all this might be that we would get a better class of journalist, one that can enrich the medium without politicizing or deriding it, I agree.

Indeed is not a conspiracy since it doesn't involve aliens or the government, I mean is just a group of people in collision coordinating to commit unethical acts. That isn't the definition of conspiracy! (it is actually) If you're going to dismiss every fact because some speculation you would be doing yourself harm by denying the truth. Which is that these people have a ties with each other that run across more than one media group and haven't been shy in using those connections. It certainly merits investigation and that's what was being hoped from real journalists; the man we thought Eric Kain to be, but every media outlet seems unwilling to take the story or even take the opposing argument. That kind of singular thinking doesn't strike you as odd? That the whole of gaming media has a shared opinion on gamers at the same time that they decide to investigate them?

Considering that it was made by ex Irrational Games members where that kind of storytelling is hallmark, I can see how anyone thought it was revolutionary. I imagine that having close ties to the developer might help.

I'm pretty sure that he supported Feminist Frequency and the Tropes vs Women videos. I've seen a Tweet from him giving vocal support. Still, he's a professional and hasn't let politics affect his work. I don't need to agree with someone to respect them or to give praise where is deserved, plus I don't answer to clickbait.

Hopefully it will be more grand strategy and less MOBA, that was one thing I didn't like about Homeworld.