Orogun01

5/10, nice try to whoever it was. Too cliche to actually be real, Occam's Razor dictates that they theory with the least amount of bull**** is the best. I mean, hacker groups and death threats...could still be possible, is just very unlikely.

It may not be an attack, after the exodus from /v/ there may be a large number of people looking for a place to discuss this issue. Edit: http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/09/gamergate-escapist-mag-ddos-attack/

What? You mean it's not fair comparing the absolute worst of one group with those who are considered the "best" of the other group? That's not really fair, moderate can be many things depending on who you ask and in what context, people who call themselves moderate aren't necesarrily moderate, and the more secular muslims who don't give that much of a damn wouldn't bother showing up to one of these things. I don't think so, we mustn't get confused between most Muslims who would go to those types of conferences and follow the Koran literally and extremist Muslims who join ISIS and Al-Qaeda In other words the definition of an extremist or fundamentalist Muslim isn't someone who says men and women should pray separately, almost all Muslims believe that. So those Muslims at that conference would be considered moderate unless they were ideologically aligned to extremist groups So the difference between a moderate Muslim and an extremist one is gun ownership?

Don't you think I'm funny, my mom doesn't think I'm funny and some of my g-friends don't think I'm funny. My sense of humour is definitely an acquired taste, you should meet me in person..I think you'll find me funny You don't really come highly recommended.

I see that the Patriarchy thread is spreading.

I'm not discussing their economic situation but the economics that allow for fascism to rise and be accepted by the populace.

These are probably the same people pushing for governments to have Haram and Sharia laws within the countries that they emigrate to. You could imagine the issue of they take to stoning homosexuals. Christianity is not under scrutiny because is mostly flexible, even the Pope has changed the stance on homosexuality and Muslims seem still stuck to the "Let's do Holy war" stage. If these men are truly the moderate ones I would say that Islam still has about 100 years of evolving to do.

To be honest I kind of expected this outcome.

I think people are making the wrong distinction the reason why most extremist offshoots of socialism were able to take place in the first place was because of the economic situation in those countries. Hasn't anyone read Das Kapital? Capitalist countries with a equitable distribution of wealth are more prone to charity, whereas those with great gaps often descent into the far right. Is not a coincidence that there was a rise of communism that took place in the Third world.

Norway? Recently there was a guy arrested on the UK for recruiting people for ISIS, same deal on the US. It is very hard to see Muslims as being peaceful and just as regular people when there are those who are working under pretense.

Plz god, let it be true

Because these are things she actually says in the video? She has huge problem with maintaining a consistent message, it seems. At any rate, the tone and major points were very different from the occasional rational gem.

What? you're just confirming what I said, either we are misguided and ignorant or aware and misogynistic. She just tried to fit us into her schema, guess which of the two you are if you like sexualised women in games? Could you please quote where she offers that particular dichotomy? Because my reading is that according to her, a/ games where the only meaningful game mechanic is the use of violence are more prone to using iffy tropes as an emergent quality arising from said game mechanics (as opposed to, say, the misogyny of the developers), and b/ while playing these games explicitly won't make anyone sexist, they will subtly influence one's view on gender roles when provided with the exclusion of alternatives. (Actually, this viewpoint is fairly well-supported by research, which I don't get why she didn't point viewers to.) I think you may be reading too much into her videos and giving her too much credit. I mean by your own admission her approach is idiotic; IIRC, so why would you expect her to have such a reasonable view? But she almost comes close to the actual issue that is the fact that games have focused around action because of their interactive nature and there is not much room for character development so everyone is a bit one dimensional. But she just disregards everything as negative.

I don't know how the opposition handles it, but so far the GamerGate side has tried to remain moderate with the occasional descent into hyperbole and hype. There have been no organized attempts to cause harm to the opposition since they see it as giving them ammunition. So far any attack is discouraged even after GamerGate was ran out of 4chan and tempers where high. Mostly they've stuck to their original plan of e-mailing advertisers and have let the de facto spokespersons to handle it, while offering support from behind the scenes. Is kind of impressive how this type of organization came about organically and without a previous structure in place. Might be worth looking into as a study of the user's behavior on the Internet.

So I guess all those "Gamers are dead" articles describing us as neckbeards and the horrors that come out of Leigh Alexander's mouth were about Parcheesi enthusiasts. They all share the same politics and the same views, just look at some of Anita's tweets regarding gamers and what she thinks of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs#t=1195 What? you're just confirming what I said, either we are misguided and ignorant or aware and misogynistic. She just tried to fit us into her schema, guess which of the two you are if you like sexualised women in games?

Just to be clear do you mean feminists like Anita or gaming journalists and there stand on this whole issue? On the contributions of feminists like Anita to feminism and gender equality.

BTW, how do actually expect them to further the cause of gender equality with the type of behavior they've shown in the past. They seem aggressive rather than argumentative, despite there being calls for a debate a la "Atheist vs Creationists". It seems to me that they have a lot of focus on content control rather than faith on the strength of their message and at times they even contradict themselves or go against their values. I always regarded them as being ethically weak but I'm genuinely curious as to what your opinion is on what these people are doing to further gender equality.

Okay look I am trying to be more understanding towards the offense you guys feel around how you feel gaming journalists have treated you But I'll be honest I am battling with it for two main reasons You guys have never cared about gaming journalists before and what they thought. You guys have always basically felt that gaming journalist are corrupt and there opinions don't matter. In the past I have used various gaming websites as a source of information and been told " LOL...why would you take that website seriously " I have been told numerous times that words don't matter on the Internet and people musn't get offended and people must grow think skins. How many times have I posted links about bigotry on the Internet and expected people to be horrified and the normal response is "its the Internet, deal with it" So I see a weird inconsistency with how some of you apply this feeling of being outraged, and I don't understand it. Maybe you can explain to me now why there is such discussion about what gaming journalists have said...surly they are just words that can be ignored? It bothers me because I could have never imagined the extend of their influence, it bothers me because every reputable website is printing their side of the story. Even though by the own admission there was no story and only ran after they became the target. It bothers me because on the face of so much corruption there are still people nitpicking about the matter, saying that this isn't like Dorito-Gate or that this is just how things get done. It bothers me because this has actual repercussions that are clearly visible and everyone is ignoring it. For me this is something from a conspiracy movie, because I've seen how most of the events went down. I've shown interest since day one and now I'm seeing how they get to write the story and keep on doing the same ****. If there was a moment to oust them and to bring some measure of dignity to the field it is now. So you might say that i'm a bit more emotionally invested than usual as I consider this to be important. I'm sure you know how that's like.

I've been reading the dump and it starting to seem to me that these people constantly go beyond the borders of their profession. I'd imagine that they see themselves as arbiters for a cause of righteousness but the fact is that they should not exploit their position for personal needs. At some point I would had expect hubris to run dry and people to actually consider the lengths to which they were going for this woman. I mean they have an absolute certainty that they are in the right and opposition seems to be bullied into backing down.

@Bruce: the wording on that post seemed a bit vague so is good that you clarified. You referred to us as being the ones offended, I imagine that you're not slighted by what the SJW press has said about gamers.

Edit: @Bruce: "Treated you" Since when did you stop being a gamer?

"I'd also suggest that - if others think the letter is a good idea - we should do this entirely under the radar, organizing it through word-of-mouth and email rather than Twitter. I made the mistake earlier of publicly voicing support and in doing so drawing more attention to the issue. I'd rather not make that mistake again. — Andrew Groen, WIRED contributor" This one is my favorite one.

So I guess all those "Gamers are dead" articles describing us as neckbeards and the horrors that come out of Leigh Alexander's mouth were about Parcheesi enthusiasts. They all share the same politics and the same views, just look at some of Anita's tweets regarding gamers and what she thinks of them. I mean look at what they did to poor Nonek's signature. If only they are righteous harassers that are one course of Latin from declaring their goal a crusade, cause Deus Vult. Or was their hostility not a clear indication of their character. I guess you also trust strangers with vans in clown costumes, I mean they seem legit and they say they'll give you candy.(Fact:Molestation is the leading cause of childhood obesity) Is been like 3 ****ing years and they haven't done **** but whine and complain. I mean ****, they can organize a media conspiracy but the can't get a gamejam or a fundraiser together to make a ****ing game. I guess they're busy doing other stuff. As someone who just finished a freaking game development degree I'm all for more games. I would love to work on a feminist approved game and as soon as you get them to stop complaining about my soggy knees and get them working towards making games they will have my full support. But there is something about the destructive criticism, the snide remarks, the mockery of their audience that just tells me that they are doing exactly what they want.

As for Sarkeesian's popularity... for all the screaming and flailing and dismissiveness of her detractors, she does have a point. A point she often doesn't manage to get across, but there are limits to what you can expect from liberal arts majors, after all. Sarkeesian used exact same format that she uses in Tropes vs. Women in video games video series in her previous Tropes vs. Women in Movies series, meaning that she picks trope and then picks movies/games/whatever that in her opinion uses that trope and but sometimes in middle quotes from social studies and finishes with jokes how Hollywood writers/game developers should stop using such tropes and treat women as human begins and that is all that she does (although in her newer videos about games she has started to put disclaimer in that criticizing thing that you like don't mean that you hate it or something like that). Her tropes vs. women in movies wasn't popular series before her Kickstarter for tropes vs. women in games series, which got her popularity not because people suddenly understood her brilliance, but because she and her campaign got attacked for some reason by group of people that did it in very public and toxic way that she become headline not only in gaming news but also in many major regular news sites, which caused people to support her regardless what she was representing. And after getting that initial popularity she has succeed to keep hold on it, which gives her much greater value as critic that I would give her. So in end of the day she has loud voice in gaming critic because of her loudest opposition and their behavior not because of quality of her arguments or her supporters. And I am not any more sure that she could lose her place in spotlight anytime soon even if her opposition stops using idiotic tactics. I doubt that at this juncture she would lose publicity, specially if the whole conspiracy thing proves to be right. I mean she's with Silverstring Media who have ties to different gaming websites. As long as there are people to promote her she will still be held up as an example.

The dude who tried to SJW after saying some ****ed up stuff on the RPGCodex? Yep, and the dude who was trying to take money for posts on Reddit. If i'm getting this straight, Cheong who was notorious on the SA forums was also within the Codex? I remember him from the BIS days. I guess the past isn't so glorious as is made out to be.