Nepenthe

You are definitely right here, Bruce. My overall enjoyment of a game will allow me to overlook significant issues (da2), but me3 did the opposite...

Because it was poorly written. Remember how the Prothean ruins on Mars were picked clean of any technology in ME1-2 and then suddenly they happened to be the location of the key Macguffin to defeating the reapers right as Shepard happened to be fleeing away from Earth (and toward Mars) in 3? I remember nothing of the kind. In fact, my recollections are the opposite. I'll have to check what the planetary description for Mars says in me2.

I found ME2 a welcome departure from the usual bioware formula... even though DA2 did it more.

What is it about lawyers and scotch? I've got so send you so genuine Kentucky small batch bourbon. The kind you won't find at home (or would have to pay a kings ransom for if you did). I promise you'd never look to the British Isles for your booze again! I think you answered your own question there. I can't get decent bourbon here. People keep telling me to try pappy van winkle's family reserve, but I've never even seen a bottle.

I laid off aspartame last autumn, the stomach issues I'd been having since ~january disappeared in a week. S'yeah, when I drink it, I'll drink the stuff with sugar. 18yo Highland Park has really become my favourite whisky lately. Has all the stuff I like together and in moderation.

I'm always in a Laurie Holden mood.

I did the same thing when I played it, and was infuriated that the last save point was just before jumping into the beam-thing on Earth. Stumbling forward very slowly down long corridors is not a fun way to end a video game that is mostly about being a kickass sci-fi commando. Doing it twice, doubly so. As you might see if you look back at the earlier part of this thread, my bottom line on the game was similar-- apart from the plot nonsense it was a good game, but not as good as ME2 was. The 3rd game had less enemy variety, less encounter-design variety, and fewer and less-interesting companions. But the core formula of pausable 3rd-person powers/guns combat, paired with in-depth character-focused dialogues and solid sci-fi world design remains enjoyable. Pretty much could've written this myself, but I didn't feel like there was less variety in encounters... but I did find the ending from Thessia onwards (Horizon was good, but Thessia, earth and the ending were pretty dire) very disappointing. Agree that fewer companions was another critical failure, even if the citadel dlc patched something back in. Remains the biggest gaming disappointment I have endured. And that includes not getting NWN to ever work properly.

Pretty sure you're just seeing what you want to see, here.

If "lampshading" doesn't, then I don't know what will. Of course, I've only been insulted in my life by being called names and spat upon, never by a video game character. Personally consider the playing around with tropes around Isabela's character gives her a justification that, say, any character from dead or alive lacks. Now the latter is something to be played just for entertainment, if anything.

No, no, no - that's clearly a Storm weapon system; It's two barrells built into one rifle afterall! Ouch! I'd have thought that was a bad ricochet or something and not a direct hit. Yeah, if it had a flashlight, then it'd be twin-linked

I agree with Bruce in that Isabela actually does have hidden depths, a lot of people just don't see them since they aren't used to looking for any in (recent) Bioware games. Frankly, it's been rehashed even here, I cba to summarise it all right now (and it's not like I've played the game since the last dlc came out).

I dunno, I'm under the impression that Bioware games are some of the more popular games among people of both the male and female persuasion. I'm also under the impression that laydees tend to enjoy a lot of the aspects of the games that get panned, say, here... But admittedly, it's been a long time since I've partaked in RPG discussion anywhere else and I'm just going from memory.

Wow Labadal you have lots of money to waste on unimportant things, think about all the starving children in Africa who could have benefitted from that money.... He supported starving children elsewhere by buying a jacket made by them.

Proof positive that the father is an Obsidian Forum member.

I think my point was that a lot of the people promulgating that point of view _believe_ they are doing it for people who can't help themselves... Hence the "cryptopatriarchality" comment... Since by believing that women, as a collective, need one's help, one is, in fact, promulgating outdated gender views.

Ok, still not probably fully sober. Carry on.

It's TWIN-LINKED, ffs!

Part of this is because those characters are much older and less overall relevant in today's world. There is certainly loud pushback on a lot of assumptions about comic book/cartoon characters today, however. Some of the more common ones that I'm aware of (with exceptionally minimal understanding of the comic book scene since I have never read them) are things like the Hawkeye Initiative (the most classic pose being the various ones where a woman character is able to show off both her chest and ass cleavage in the same shot). Comic Cons and the like (as well as game cons, and really a lot of places of geek culture that have historically been heavily dominated by males) have started to see movements such as Cosplay is not Consent because it's enough of a problem. A friend of mine is a member of the 501st Legion out of Calgary (and is actually a huge fan of Darth Nihilus and has frequently cosplayed as him) and has had to deal with it personally herself. Please note that you are coming across as stating that my opinion is merely one of a "special interest group" which comes across as a bit dismissive, at best. I don't have this perspective because it isn't something that I think is a good thing. Given that gaming is ostensibly a luxury good that, if it disappeared from the world tomorrow would result in us simply "finding something else to do" I think there's a reasonable argument that virtually all issues in gaming are of relatively similar importance, irrespective of whether or not you consider it of high or low importance. I find it insulting, and conveniently dismissive, that you seem to feel that my position is one of white knighting because evidently I think I know what's best for the majority of women, as opposed to simply being the position of myself and other people, men and women, that I know share the same opinion as me. Would you say your perspective is particularly "prototypical" in a different way? Or, like me, is it a situation of "This is the way I feel, therefore I don't feel I'm being a stereotype" even if the opposite perspective does feel that way? Many of them are starting to get those degrees (or relevant professional expertise in whatever field they feel is appropriate - though there is still potential systemic issues and cultural challenges that may exist). But I still think it's (in)convenient to dismiss people asking for features that they want to be simply "forcing the issue." If you remove a customer's ability to request something from a game, you're just removing a particular form of feedback. Without it, you don't get Double Fine making a kickstarter, which helped prompt a lot of other studios to make kickstarters, including Obsidian's. Crowd funding is effectively a way for people to provide the monetary backing to previously established verbal discourse. Obsidian had reasonable assurances that they could crowd fund Project Eternity because people on this forum talk about what they like about Obsidian's games, and so forth. Would this mean that any feedback for what someone would like to see in a game is effectively "forcing the issue?" That's nice, but it's still a game with immense exposure pretty much anywhere video games are played. As such, the exposure of Mario as a protagonist is more pervasive. The same goes for a lot of games that come out of Japan, although many games from Japan will never make it over due to cultural dissimilarities. This is absolutely true. There are lots of people that don't consider DRM a bad thing either (to use an example that I hope resonates a bit more closely for you). I hope you can understand that this means that your position on DRM is not irrelevant, simply because others don't share it.I'm pretty sure I wasn't even talking to you Alan, but to our resident breastaleban, Bruce. Unless you mean I gave your argument the worst possible offence, and ignored it. You did lose 500 respect points for bringing in the me3 ending, though... Unless you mean that the people calling for changes were also labeled a "vocal minority" and "special interest" group and dismissed... And since you brought it up, remember when Bioware promised changes to that atricious ME book before ME3's release... Yeah. I'm on a tablet and cba to edit out tha parts that weren't directed at me, sorry. I'm also rather drunk from a nice whiskey tasting with coworkers, so even the Obsidian board won't make me lose my good mood. Sorry about that, too.

Used to be "keep the conservatives out of my bedroom and the liberals out of my pocket", but increasingly you have to beware the opposite I dislike labels, so I don't apply them to myself, but I personally consider the "common" liberal viewpoints to be outdated themselves, are reaction to mores so far past us that they are a bit like the floppy disc save icon. You have to accept that sexual liberation progresses at different speeds - something the internet blinds us to - in different countries and locales. I grew up in a family where both my parents are internationally recognised scientists, where equality wasn't just an utopia to be strived for but instead a situation so present and normal that it wasn't even noticed.

Since when? A lot of people seem to enjoy comics, too, and cartoony body proportions certainly exist there. In fact, i'd posit they were imported from there.One would think that cartoony body proportions came from...well...cartoons. But then I don't think anyone is complaining about Betty Boop on the thread. Or Daisy Duck. Or Minnie Mouse. Jessica Rabbit maybe?That said massive mammaries in superhero comic books are a modern day hot button topic in comics communities as people wonder whether "breast size" actually counts towards existing characterization or if its just continually perpetuated titillation. Heck there was outrage - OUTRAGE - when DC attempted to have Wonder Woman wear pants a couple of years ago, much less doing something like...de-emphasizing Power Girl's bust (which also gets cries of outrage). I'm aware of that, and I also believe it has been going on for a lot longer, from the days when game characters were at pacman level. It was intended as a rebuttal of the "very few people enjoy said cartoony dimensions" argument.

It's not a laudable decision when it's the result of caving in to the demands of a special interest group. Since when? A lot of people seem to enjoy comics, too, and cartoony body proportions certainly exist there. In fact, i'd posit they were imported from there. I could write a diatribe about the absurd neovictorian cryptopatriarchalism put forward by the whole argument of the necessity of protecting weak females from the exaggerated and overt sexuality of female video characters... But I won't. "special interest group" ....that's the 50 % of female gamers right Nep and the sizable section of male gamers who also have an issue with it and that includes people like me and others and websites like RPS. So what do you consider a large enough number to actually warrant making changes to games? 70%...80 % ? Now I can see the response from some people, "you don't know that all female gamers have an issue with the representation of females in games" Yes that's true but you also don't know if they do. What I will say is that presented with certain feminist\equality arguments I fail to see how any women would have any issues with changes to some games and the way women are portrayed 90% of statistics are made up on the spot... See my point about cryptopatriarchality above, you are taking it upon yourself to speak for "the poor ignored women" who, according to your imagination, are offended by the lack of bulging penii in games. Seriously, women are a) individuals b) very capable of fighting their own battles, c) without men or other women telling them what to do. Bs like this is what stands in the way of true equality.

It's not a laudable decision when it's the result of caving in to the demands of a special interest group. Since when? A lot of people seem to enjoy comics, too, and cartoony body proportions certainly exist there. In fact, i'd posit they were imported from there. I could write a diatribe about the absurd neovictorian cryptopatriarchalism put forward by the whole argument of the necessity of protecting weak females from the exaggerated and overt sexuality of female video characters... But I won't.

Yes, because we are talking about oversized labias and especially clitori and the wet pants that female game characters have. "sign" ....its a called an analogy. I was demonstrating what for most men would be the objectification of themselves in games No, the whole point is trying to equalise to different things. Big breasts in video games are analogous to massive arms, pecs and sixpack abs on (almost all) male characters. And Mario...

Demeaning... Objectifying... Offensive... So easy to hide one's true motives behind jargon and abstract simplifications.

I'd like to thank Brucie for providing this discussion with a textbook strawman argument.