Tagaziel

There's really nothing to resolve. He insists on insulting me and baiting. I'm going to ignore that, mostly because I and many others don't treat this as any kind of fetish.

"It's my opinion" is a red herring fallacy. It's also irrelevant; what matters is the content, and I find the content silly. As for "fetishized bestiality," this is also biased and untrue. What lies at the core of the furry community (bar it's totally insane fringes) is anthropomorphization, ie. giving human characteristics. The most notable of those is sapience, followed by human level intelligence. This precludes bestiality, which, by definition, is intercourse between human and non-human animals, lacking sapience and intelligence. By the way, do you find Spock disturbing? After all, he's the child of a human and non-human. Oh, Star Trek, why do you glorify bestiality!

I did GM a bit and found using realistic designs (post-apocalypse setting in my case) to work the best. Realistic means, of course, that sometimes linearity is expected. The best approach would be to judge what's "appropriate" for a location, basing on the local culture, technology etc. It makes sense for crazy-person-places, like the Endless Paths, to be endlessly convoluted, just like it makes sense for grand temples to have a simple basic layout, with more complex auxiliary facilities. Followers aren't going to spend an hour traversing a trap-infested dungeon just to get to a service; at the same time, functionaries will need secret passageways, stores, sleeping chambers and treasuries to fulfill their duties.

I think it was a brilliant approach to the problem, well explained in the game and the awesome manual (kudos to the author!)

Because having varied mechanics that go beyond "health bar, mana bar, press x to kill people" is too complicated?

Training is communication. Again, if we can communicate with creatures that do not share our intelligence successfully, there's no real reason why we shouldn't be able to communicate with other species, that possess intelligence similar to ours. So, basically, you're prejudiced towards a certain community and want Project: Eternity to reflect that prejudice. Coolio.

It's good that Obsidian isn't "most people." I do find it annoying that most people don't read what they respond to. If you actually read it, you'd notice that I also pointed out that humans can and do communicate with different species. If we can communicate with other animals that do not share our intelligence level but are otherwise smart (canines, birds, cats, dolphins etc.), it's only logical that we can communicate better with different species that have a similar level of intelligence. It isn't rocket science. Uh, then use that as a character development arc? Eventually learn the language of your "alien" party member and vice versa, which also brings with it trust and a potential character quest? If you want your opinion to be left in peace, post it on your blog and disable comments. By posting it on a public forum, you are automatically agreeing to let people disagree with it, comment and use them as jumping boards for a discussion of broader themes that are quite relevant at the design stage of a game. Except P:E is not our medieval culture. But exploring challenges posed by a fantasy setting for females? Sure, why not.

All interesting views and proposals. mstark's post got me thinking, too. We are making one assumption: that an enchantment, a spell etc. is permanent. While writing the opening post, I assumed the opposite - magic requires maintenance, keeping the enchantment up/magical energy flowing/hammertime to please the dark god/etc. As such, the emergence of a privileged layer of magic users would be inevitable. But since magic is much harder to master than industry, the power would be illusory and act as a golden cage. Still, I believe it would be enough to cause a decline among some industries, such as those providing fuel for furnaces etc. (yes, blast furnaces are a favourite example of mine, go away before i pour steel on you!), causing the effects outlined in the first post (protoluddites, discord). The division may run so deep, in fact, to cause the emergence of polar opposites - towns founded by disgruntled workers that eventually develop a strong industry that can overtake the magic-fueled economy of the original city they left. The rivalry can take the form of an economic cold war, using eg. the old favourite, staple right, taxing imports etc. Not to mention attempts to corner the market by the conventional industrial powers, attempting to displace the more expensive, magic-made products with their cheaper, less refined, but readily available ones. Sorry for the "stream of consciousness" in advance.

Again, the same flawed logic. Necessity breeds invention. Frontier towns that interact with such alien cultures would devise ways of communication. Can't speak or write? Use symbols and gestures. Hell, we are able to communicate with dogs and apes, despite our differences. It's not perfect, but it's easy to extend the same principles to communication with entirely different species. Uh, then write the game, so that it's not a freak show? Seriously, the same logic can be applied to eliminating female player characters: after all, realistically, women would be precluded from adventuring, much the same way they were in medieval times. With certain exceptions, but still.

By your logic, eg. Europeans would never be able to communicate with people outside their continent (or even country). And yet they did. Interspecies communication is possible, you just need a comparable level of intelligence. The process wouldn't be easy, sure, but it's definitely not impossible. Furthermore, you honestly fail to see the potential for conflict and interesting writing here? The problem of assimilating non-human species? The interaction between humans and them? I'm working on something similar by now and it's fascinating to explore, the alien cultures, different societies etc.

Since enchanting is in, I believe there will be more practical magic, one that'd be useful to the industry. One of the reasons I posted this thread actually. An enchanted furnace that draws on the power of the astral plane/dimension/whatever to have a free source of fire would be extremely useful and an example of an industrial revolution level change. At least, in my view. As for the realism of physics, magic breaks physics by definition. Newton spins in his grave.

How about we simply make it optional, like in Starcraft?

Is a lack of hand holding really a problem? How is Morrowind not intentionally ambiguous?

For some reason, I love deserts. Particularly the secrets they hold. Varant in Gothic 3 was just <3.

I can actually picture that in a Vailian Grand Republic, as a display of the city's absurd wealth. Also, what Osvir and Suen said. Reanimated undead labor? That'd allow for an increased, say, mining or woodcutting output. Hell, any industry that requires raw strength could benefit from that. Of course, the more squeamish would protest.

It does have a lot of story, atmosphere and an overarching plot. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Actually, the first functional suits of body armor date back to medieval Japan, manufactured from silk. Later examples include Ned Kelly's suit, the Korean Myeonje baegab and then World War II inventions: the German and Soviet breastplates, American flak jackets and so on and so forth. Of course, this depends on the type of firearms used.

I'm not sure that'd be the case. Unless magic is very widespread or was harnessed excessively early, the industries would still develop, out of need. Magic would definitely eclipse them, if it's powerful enough to act as a resource. Good question. Most mages wouldn't, I think (unless you're an 8AM - 4 PM middle class magic practicioner who just wants a stable life). Now, assume you have a mentally handicapped person, who can cast spells (a savant, basically), fire spells. Imagine how the industry would like to take advantage of him.

I don't recall level 40 rats anywhere in Morrowind.

I've been trying to remember titles that would've taken this approach, but the only one that comes to mind is The Witcher, or rather, the saga, where mages are an important part of the economy. Hell, the entire city built around the Aretuza academy is devoted solely to supporting the mages. Any ideas, anyone?

I consider Morrowind to be the high point of the series. Granted, it has its flaws, but also features a very powerful character system and enough skills to facilitate creating unique builds without maxing them out (unless you spend extra time grinding), an unique art direction, particularly when Dunmer architecture is concerned, large amounts of backstory and lore on the province of Morrowind and Vvardenfell, fleshing out the dark elves and their sociopolitical organization and... Well, it's simply a fully realized, well done fictional world that nails the uniquity of the Elder Scrolls setting. I particularly like the story. The best part about is the ambiguity: is the entire thing a prophecy? Or just the machination of Azura to get back at the Tribunal? Is the protagonist the Nerevarine by fate or by choice, as a result of his actions? This ambiguity also transfers to the fluff: the original events at the Red Mountain, during the War of the First Council, are shrouded in mystery and there is no account of what truly transpired between the future Tribunal, Voryn Dagoth and Indoril Nerevar. All we have are second hand accounts and the word of those involved. Not everyone likes this kind of ambiguity, so it's a matter of taste. I'm not even going into the cutthroat, corrupt politics between the Dunmer houses that have a direct impact on the game (Redoran For Life, by the way). Characters are a mixed bag, but I find that it's easy to consider them unmemorable in the sea of hundreds. I do remember several fondly, starting with the surviving Tribunal members and Dagoth Ur, through Caius Cosades, Habasi and Ahnassi, to, of course, Divayth Fyr, his dausisteclones and Yagrum Bagarn. It's a pretty damn merry bunch. Oblivion is pretty crappy. Ignoring crappy work on lore and terrible main plot, it's simply shoddy: the setting is a Lord of the Rings knockoff (where's my Roman Empire in Mesoamerica?) with terrible work on distinguishing the races. And the Khajiit. God, they're terrible. Skyrim is a massive improvement in terms of graphics quality, quest design, art direction and lore (the Aldmeri Dominion, Thalmor and the Great War are fantastic additions to the lore), marred by occassionally poor writing, railroading questlines that defeat the purpose of roleplaying and a lot of wasted potential (the entire Dominion-Empire-Stormcloak setup is entirely wasted in favour of a cliche SAVE THE WORLD, SLAY DRAGON plot). I still like it, and Dawnguard has me hoping that Bethesda finally improved their writing and storytelling skills. Although I would've preferred a slightly less... traditional vampire design, it works well and the story is pretty gripping.

I have been thinking about the role of magic in the economy of the Project Eternity universe. Most fantasy settings ignore this aspect of the magical arts, treating them like other goods, ignoring their supernatural nature and ability to revolutionize and even completely ruin the market. Take for instance the foundries. Fire magic would allow to reduce the demand for combustible materials to fuel the blast furnaces, increasing the profit margin significantly, but diminishing the woodcutting industry. Water magic would help breweries. Air magic the milling industry, and so on and so forth. Question is, how would impact the social and political landscape? Mages would enjoy a massive influence, but their situation would be very unstable: a strategic resource, a wizard, would be too precious to just let get away, resulting in the mage having influence, but being stuck in an essentially golden cage. At the same time, reliance on mages as resources of industry would render the industries themselves vulnerable to sabotage, through, for example, assassinating mages in rival states and crippling their industrial output as they struggle to rebuild classic supply sources. This is a good source of potential conflict and intrigue for Project Eternity. Another is the inevitable rise in unemployment and unrest that would be a result of the industry switching to magical resources. I envision a sort of anti-magical luddite movement, maybe with separatist ambitions. Racial tensions can further add to the mix, especially in less cosmopolitan countires. As elves are traditionally depicted as masters of magic, areas where practicioners of magic have firmly established themselves as cornerstones of industry, leading to reductions in employment, would be easy to turn into cesspools of anti-elven sentiment by corrupt demagogues. It's only one step away from pogroms that way (similiar to how Jews were treated in some parts of Europe throughout its history). Magical resources also create a few more opportunities for interesting conflicts: - Renegade mages attempting to crash the iron/gold/silver/jewel market with magically created analogues (or even illussions, if a smaller market is concerned and only short term changes are required), - Speculation in magical/magically created goods in areas where little to no magic is present. - Political struggle for control over the wizard(s). - Attempts to index and control use of magic through law and special agencies, - etc. Thoughts?

I'd prefer a system with two different "protection" stats: Evasion and Armor Class. Evasion is a chance to avoid an attack entirely, by dodging, deflecting blows, jumping etc. Armor Class is the ability of the armor to protect the user, ie. not avoid attacks, but absorbing damage. As such, characters focused on armor wearing wouldn't be able to entirely avoid attacks, but would benefit from the increased protection it gives (tanking, in other words). Characters who don't wear armor (or just the lightest suits) would instead focus on avoiding attacks and outmaneuvering the enemy. Although the end result is seemingly the same, it would also have further repercussions, eg. dealing with mages or bowmen. Say, you're facing a lightning mage in metal armor or a fire mage in robes? You're fried. You're facing bowmen wearing heavy armor? Sorry, you're a porcupine. Fallout simulated some of the above principles, with metal armor being more resistant to energy weapons. Food for thought.

Updated my journal Updated my journal Updated my journal Updated my journal Updated my journal Updated my journal Updated my journal In other words, Planescape Torment style, which was easy to read, follow, yet differed from the terrible objective lists of Skyrim.

I prefer a good amount of content. The problem with BG1 is that going through the wilderness was about as involving and interesting as grinding. As Raccoon said, it'd be great, if there was a reason to return to locations, rather than making them grindfests.