random n00b

I am still pretty confused. So then, "artistic value" = creativity and imagination? Well, that would explain then why I can't seem to appreciate contemporary art. I value technique better myself. By that logic, I can see how Fallout would be more artistically worthy than BG. What with them creating a whole new (and possessed of a rather unique flavor too) setting, ruleset and all. But then Deus Ex wouldn't rate too high artistically, since it's a rehash of many sci-fi and fiction topics, and it's not that great or innovative visually either. It had a solid story and interesting hybrid mechanics, but that's about it. So what gives? Also, it's a good thing that somebody made the separation from "artistic value" and "entertainment value". Following the former reasoning, I am not going to dispute the artistic value of PST, despite the fact that that I personally hated it for its execution and dumped it less than four hours into the game. But then, I fail to understand why artistic value as has been defined seems to rank so high for some people (both players and developers) when it is obviously not a requirement for entertaining (I will henceforth use "fun" for convenience) games. That is assuming the purpose of games is entertainment and as a passtime and not a means of self-aggrandizement - for developers by setting themselves apart from the art-lacking, aimed-at-the-masses games, and for fans seeking to put themselves above the rest by being able to appreciate the magnificence of the Emperor's new suit. I much prefer a reasonably bug-free game with solid mechanics and internal coherence, than one that leaves me gasping at its imaginative world and interface design, and whose gameplay is hampered by bugs and awkward and/or tedious mechanics. Throw in a good (not necessarily innovative) story, and it's a winner for me. Yup, I'm that simple. edited for... coherence

Um, OK. The knife is useful maybe against lone enemies that don't use shotguns, but that's about it. A squad of AK74-armed soldiers can do a number on you if you aren't careful at that point in the game, IIRC. I remember sweating quite a bit to clear that outpost, and I did it by drawing them out and hiding in the bushes, then picking them off one by one. Maybe I was playing a higher diff, I don't remember. Less than a day apart. And yeah, once you get a hold of the fatter ARs and armor suits (I never used exoskeletons, myself), your life gets quite a bit easier. But then, why would you be using the knife? No. No, no, no. I don't suck. I'm fairly confident that's not it...

Not sure but I think Redemption's go at it was more a DM client than a true editor. AFAIK you couldn't make your own scripts or maps. As someone with ZERO artistic sensitivity, I would appreciate it if you could actually explain what you mean by "artistic value", as it's something that's being brought up repeatedly in the thread and I fully fail to grasp. I'm not being facetious here, btw. I would really like to know. Pretty maps and music? Innovative interaction mechanics? What?

What do you mean you look forward to them? JE has been out for PC for some time now... But yeah, I'm getting ME ASAP. From what I've seen and read here, looks like my kind of game. As for BIO... I don't think there's any other company that has produced nearly so many games I have liked. I don't know if their games are *that* good, but I sure have spent more hours than I can count playing them...

What the hell is he doing with his knife? Stabbing crates. Classic FPS gameplay right there. umm I meant the stroking the sharp edge with his bare fingers He thinks he's bad ass, but he's just an amateur.

Are you like... The Hulk of FPS gaming or what?

If you specify a little more what you want to do, we might be able to help. Are you trying to make her look like Hanharr or Atris? Otherwise, I have a feeling that what you are trying would require 2DA editing...

Lol yes. Because we know that SW is, above all, ruled by logic. EPIC fail. Oh, and your regard of the quality of the EU is of no consequence. Canon is canon, and different levels of canon are only relevant when there are conflicting sources. This is not the case so what we know about ranks in the Jedi Order from the EU is all there is to it.

No, that makes them teachers to their padawans, not Masters. Addressing and referring to a Knight as "master" is apparently nothing more than a sign of respect, not an actual consideration of formal rank. Surely you don't think that everyone that is addressed as "sir" actually holds a nobiliary title, do you? But yeah. From the perspective of the movies exclusively, it's an ambiguous subject. Like many, many others...

Sticky?

No. Any Jedi with at least the rank of Knight could take a Padawan, and doing so didn't automatically promote her to Master. Obi-Wan attained the rank during the Clone Wars (linky), not immediately after taking Anakin as his pupil. That was the "special dispensation" in his case. No. They were Masters because that was their rank (no info available on how they attained it, AFAIK). And the term is only ambiguous if you consider only the movies. There's a boatload of content on the Jedi Order in the EU...

You still elude answering how exactly imprisonment can lead to Bad Things, in a more substantial and regular basis than crossing the street or taking your car to go to work. My bad. I assumed you meant that the potentially undesirable events down the slope was mistreatment. So, basically you say that imprisonment is bad enough by itself. LOL. You don't like imprisonment, but to cover your back, you say inmates in rehab shouldn't be allowed to run around freely. Yes, a most realistic approach, indeed. Not to mention, you are also disregarding the current statistics on the efficiency of rehab. Which is kinda, dysmal. What does that have to do with it? So, since it's already expensive, let's spend even more with no guarantees of return? How about, have them work for a living? Again, the mental disease scapegoat. Being mentally ill, save in cases of extreme demency, does not kill one's perception of good and evil. As I said, those people are responsible for keeping their urges in check and seeking help if need be. Not doing so is a criminal negligence. Weren't you the one saying that it's not a matter of "greater good"? If by "good" you mean efficiency (as much as possible) and stability, then yes. And that's exactly what the maintenance of the status quo is all about. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking. "If other options are open", being the problem here. How do you ensure that a sexual offender can't cause harm to anyone, ever again? And sure, it's everyone's right not to be imprisoned. But when it comes to the rights of a child rapist clashing with those of his victims, the victims' take precedence. Or, we can all go live in the gingerbread house at the end of lollipop lane in the land of chocolate...

DX had some awesome tracks. I remember firing up the game and using the playlist cheat just to listen to some of them... TIE Fighter, despite being MIDI-powered had a seamless dynamic music system that enhanced atmosphere by about, 10000%, or so. The original C&C (and to a lesser extent RA1) also comes to mind. Mr Klepacki knows his stuff. Hell March FTW! I don't have any VG music in my player, but I have as my mobile phone alarm tune... :ninja10:

How is that a slippery slope? Do you even know what that is? I'm not saying that protecting the majority necessarily implies mistreating sex offenders. But, as things are right now, and from a realistic approach, the only solution is imprisonment. I haven't seen you come up with something better, either. In fact, your implying that imprisonment -> mistreatment *is* a rather gleaming example of a slippery slope. What about those that *don't* want rehabilitated? Sure, they all want out on parole, but how many of them really want to change? It's not a matter of "greater good", either. Misrepresenting the stances of others isn't going to make your discourse any stronger. The deal is, resources are limited. And I'd much rather have my taxes be spent on roads, dams, or nuclear power plants, than in rehabilitating sex offenders. You are purposefully ignoring the crucial fact that most child rapists are adults, and that entails taking responsibility for one's actions. The state isn't anyone's babysitter. You see, law isn't as much a means of delivering justice or attaining the high moral ground as it is a tool for maintaining the status quo. Whatever lies are invented to disguise this fact serve only to help people sleep better at night. I see you throwing this "humane" word around quite a bit, but without any concretion. Would you mind elaborating on how the current penal system isn't "humane" enough, and why? Feasible alternatives?

No. Jedi Master is a well defined rank in the Jedi Order, attained by means of training a student past the rank of Padawan, or by passing a tougher version of the Knighthood trials. Sometimes by special dispensation from the Jedi Council, as in Obi-Wan's case. It is in fact better defined than Jedi "weapons" master, that is more an unofficial designation for the more martial-focused Jedi than anything. Council members were appointed by already existing councilpersons based on unspecified reasons, probably orthodoxy. Qui-Gon was a Jedi Master, as was Dooku before he quit. Neither were in the council. I don't see how being in the council is relevant when it comes to Anakin's Jedi (master) victims. The Council held the political power of the Order... its members needn't be the best with a lightsaber.

This guy. That, in the movie itself. Quite a few more in the EU.

Agree. Preventive measures > punitive measures.

So how's Power Armor development going?

[quote name='H

I agree that you can't strip humanity. But I also believe that certain acts prove that some people aren't better than dogs (no offense intended GD, ) and therefore warrant no better treatment. No one is stripping them of humanity, they are rejecting it themselves. The mental disease excuse is the easy way out, but I simply don't buy it. Unless one's grip on reality has been completely lost (raving madmen, not quite your usual sex offender), it's that person's responsibility to keep their urges in check and seek help. Or not. But they should pay for it, or it's chaos. For good or ill, the state is to protect the majority first, and the minority second. In this case, the minority are sex offenders. It might not be "humane" to imprison them for life, but the welfare and protection of the majority take precedence. Bottom line, don't go around molesting children and you should be ok.

Eh, so? It is canon nevertheless. And if you are talking about movie canon, be specific. That may save you the need of going off on a rant, foaming at the mouth, when you are corrected. And lay off the hostility, kid. Internet tough guys are boring.

He killed quite a few Jedi *Masters* and Knights. You are aware that there are different levels of canon, right? Also, all officially licensed SW works must first receive the approval of LFL, which is the ultimate authority on canon, not you. Regardless of your opinion, Legacy is canon...

Perhaps you expect them to have the depth of book characters. Think about it, most BG2 NPCs don't really have any deep backstory to speak of, save for the romanceable ones. Clogging the game with deep, convoluted NPC backstories can be distracting from the main plot. They are there just for flavor. It is the PC's story, after all.

TIE Fighter (iMuse > u) Deus ****ing Ex BG2/ToB - This one has an incredibly prolific mod community, great stuff out there Fallout 2 Fallout TACTICS - if only you could play this baby co-op... NWN2/MotB KotOR2 UFO/TFTD JK2/JA - piss-poor swordplay system, but fun MP action Starfleet Command 2 - dynamic music + tactical space combat = win I play many of those on a regular basis, too. Honourable mentions for the PES series, Civ, and Rome:TW. I want my life back, dammit!

That is a misrepresentation and a caricature. Several other different stances that are often categorised as agnosticism (but differ fundamentally from what agnosticism is commonly understood as, such as ignosticism and skepticism) also exist, and are, in many ways, more internally consistent and less based on contradictions and arbitrary assumptions than (a)theism. Please don't try to oversimplify things. God from a philosophical perspective, and the sociopolitical construct called religion aren't the same thing. I was just pointing out how "faith" is defined in the Christian dogma, and how that dogma might affect the mindset of people that hold orthodoxy above reason. The Bible is *not* the work of "God", as it's been verified to have been authored, translated and edited by different people at different times. This alone (but not exclusively) is enough to question the value of its theological contents. Now, trying to analyse dogmatic postulates from a non-dogmatic stance is a futile exercise. Can one achieve true faith without divine intervention? Not from a dogmatic standpoint, that much is pretty clear. From a non-dogmatic standpoint, there's no answer because any reasoning you build can't integrate irrational (dogmatic) premises if it intends to remain consistent and reach a valid conclusion. There's simply not enough to work with. Theology is the ultimate mind game. If it could be clarified (solved?) by means of empirical reasoning, being a holy man would have never been a living. It was built around logical loopholes... you gotta admit, it's quite crafty. Meta, where are you